The Rapture & The Second Coming Of Christ

[Guest DRS81]

Are these two different events or one big event.

Please use scripture to help prove your claim.

Thank you. Blessings. - DRS81

[ENOCH2010]

Same event, the first resurrection in Rev. chapter 20 is the first opportunity for a rapture and resurrection which happens at the second coming. The pre-trib crowd tries to say the rapture happens before the tribulation, for that to work they have to add a resurrection before the tribulation, but the Bible records the time of the first resurrection.  

[Guest DRS81]

Same event, the first resurrection in Rev. chapter 20 is the first opportunity for a rapture and resurrection which happens at the second coming. The pre-trib crowd tries to say the rapture happens before the tribulation, for that to work they have to add a resurrection before the tribulation, but the Bible records the time of the first resurrection.  

 

Blessings ENOCH2010. When do you believe second coming happens, mid trib or end trib? What about rapture scripture in Thessalonians? Are you saying Jesus raptures the church, fights the antichrist and also reigns with believers for a thousand years all in one event??

 

Also....in 1 Thess 5:9, Matt 24:29, and Rev 3:10, why does two scriptures say for God did not appoint us to suffer wrath and I will keep you from the hour of trial, but then another scripture says after tribulation the son of God comes? So confusing........

[missmuffet]

Two different events

1.At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

At the second coming,believers return with the Lord to the earth Revelation 19:4

2.The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation Revelation chapters 6-19.

The rapture occurs before the tribulation 1 Thessalonians 5:9;Revelation 3:10

3.The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance 1 Thessalonisans 4:13-17,5:9.

The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment Matthew 24:40-41

4.The rapture will be secret and instant 1 Corinthians 15:50-54.

The second coming will be visible to all Revelation 1:7;Matthew 24:29-30.

5.The second coming of Christ,will not occur until after certain other end-time events take place 2 Thessalonians 2:4;Matthew 24:15-30;Revelation chapters 6-18.

The rapture is imminent;it could take place at any time.Titus 2:13;1 Thessalonians 4:13-18;1 Corinthians 15:50-54.

 

Why is it important to keep the rapture and the second coming distinct?

1.If the rapture and the second coming are the same event,believers will have to go through the tribulation 1 Thessalonians 5:9;Revelation 3:10.

2.If the rapture and the second coming are the same event,the return of Christ is not imminent-there are many things which must occur before He can return Matthew 24:4-30.

3.In describing the tribulation period,Revelation chapters 6-19 the church is not mentioned.During the tribulation-also called "the time of trouble for Jacob" Jeremiah 30:7- God will again turn His primary attention to Israel Romans 11:17-31.

[Guest DRS81]

Two different events

1.At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

At the second coming,believers return with the Lord to the earth Revelation 19:4

2.The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation Revelation chapters 6-19.

The rapture occurs before the tribulation 1 Thessalonians 5:9;Revelation 3:10

3.The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance 1 Thessalonisans 4:13-17,5:9.

The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment Matthew 24:40-41

4.The rapture will be secret and instant 1 Corinthians 15:50-54.

The second coming will be visible to all Revelation 1:7;Matthew 24:29-30.

5.The second coming of Christ,will not occur until after certain other end-time events take place 2 Thessalonians 2:4;Matthew 24:15-30;Revelation chapters 6-18.

The rapture is imminent;it could take place at any time.Titus 2:13;1 Thessalonians 4:13-18;1 Corinthians 15:50-54.

 

Why is it important to keep the rapture and the second coming distinct?

1.If the rapture and the second coming are the same event,believers will have to go through the tribulation 1 Thessalonians 5:9;Revelation 3:10.

2.If the rapture and the second coming are the same event,the return of Christ is not imminent-there are many things which must occur before He can return Matthew 24:4-30.

3.In describing the tribulation period,Revelation chapters 6-19 the church is not mentioned.During the tribulation-also called "the time of trouble for Jacob" Jeremiah 30:7- God will again turn His primary attentio to Israel Romans 11:17-31.

 

Very good interpretation there. I like that.

 

In Rev 6, people are hiding themselves from God's wrath. Is Rev 6 talking about AFTER rapture? I believe so. If Matt 24 & Rev 6 are speaking of the same event, the second coming of Christ and NOT the rapture then this explains a lot. God is using the word wrath inside the sixth seal!! The first five seals have come and gone. God was not showing his wrath in the first five seals. The great day of their wrath has come AT THE SIXTH SEAL, and God's wrath begins at the seventh seal. (Rev 16:1) Does this mean the first five seals was simply rebellion of the devil against God? Well let's see, again the sixth seal of Rev 6 & Matt 24. Let's look to Matt 24:31 for a moment. Let's determine where this falls into the rapture or second coming. Who is the elect here, Israel's 144,00? Does this describe a second rapture? To my knowledge, I believe Matt 24:29-31 is speaking about the sixth seal, the sun and moon darkening etc...read the blue for comparison......SO WHO IS THE ELECT/THEY WILL GATHER? Thessalonians uses "CAUGHT UP", Matthew uses "GATHER". So what event is Matthew talking about???

 

1. Rev - earthquake / Matt - heavens shaken

2. Rev - sun turned black / Matt - sun darkened

3. Rev - moon became blood / Matt - moon will not give light

4. Rev - stars fall to earth / Matt - stars fall from heaven

5. Rev - people hid themselves / Matt - people will mourn

6. Rev - their wrath has come / Matt - they will gather is elect

7. Rev - their wrath has come / Matt - after the tribulation

 

Take a look at #7 above. Now this is interesting. The timeline is after the tribulation is done, their wrath has come. What comes after tribulation?? Yes you guessed it, the seven bowls of the apocalypse!! What I'm trying to clear up here is that yes the rapture and the second coming are two completely different events because nowhere in Rev 6 or Matt 24 do we see the description of rapture, the twinkling of an eye/caught up/glorified bodies etc...the only thing I question is the word gather in Matt 24.

 

The Seven Seals (Revelation 6:12-17)

 

When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14 The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

 

The Coming of the Son of Man (Matthew 24:29-31)

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then tall the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

My Timeline

1. Rapture after 5th seal/martyrdom - Ask yourself, why is there a 5th seal. Why haven't these christians been raptured? Revelation 6:9-11

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_seals - Think about it. How can the 5th seal be a past event when the seven seals haven't happened yet.

2. 6th seal opens/the second coming of Christ

3. The seven bowls released

4. Then the end.

 

After thought - If rapture is right after 5th seal then what is this about...1 Thess 5:9, Matt 24:29, and Rev 3:10, why does two scriptures say for God did not appoint us to suffer wrath and I will keep you from the hour of trial, but then another scripture says after tribulation the son of God comes? So confusing........

 

- I did my best here. Any thoughts. Blessings, DRS81

[ENOCH2010]

The dead in Christ shall rise first, then we which are alive and remain will join them in the air.  That is a picture of the rapture right? So lets look for a resurrection of the dead in Christ, it is described in Rev. chapter 20, happening at the second coming. For there to be a pre-trib rapture, you will have to add a pre-trib resurrection also because neither are in the Bible.

[Guest DRS81]

The dead in Christ shall rise first, then we which are alive and remain will join them in the air.  That is a picture of the rapture right? So lets look for a resurrection of the dead in Christ, it is described in Rev. chapter 20, happening at the second coming. For there to be a pre-trib rapture, you will have to add a pre-trib resurrection also because neither are in the Bible.

 

Hi ENOCH2010, blessings! It's more complicated than just Rev 20. There's things that have to take place before the 1,000 year reign with Christ. There's more scripture, more details, more revelation to these events. I'm also not thinking pre-trib rapture, I'm thinking 5th seal rapture. Post#5.

[missmuffet]

 

The dead in Christ shall rise first, then we which are alive and remain will join them in the air.  That is a picture of the rapture right? So lets look for a resurrection of the dead in Christ, it is described in Rev. chapter 20, happening at the second coming. For there to be a pre-trib rapture, you will have to add a pre-trib resurrection also because neither are in the Bible.

 

Hi ENOCH2010, blessings! It's more complicated than just Rev 20. There's things that have to take place before the 1,000 year reign with Christ. There's more scripture, more details, more revelation to these events. I'm also not thinking pre-trib rapture, I'm thinking 5th seal rapture. Post#5.

 

So are you Mid-trib??

[Guest DRS81]

So are you Mid-trib??

 

I honestly don't know.

There are so many different views people assert too when it comes to the five seals, past tense/future tense.

Others think the great tribulation doesn't start until after the seven seals so...

Christians have to first be on the same page with the seals and the start of great trib first to really get anywhere with prophecy.

Maybe Rev 4 proves pre-trib rapture, interesting.

[ENOCH2010]

 

The dead in Christ shall rise first, then we which are alive and remain will join them in the air.  That is a picture of the rapture right? So lets look for a resurrection of the dead in Christ, it is described in Rev. chapter 20, happening at the second coming. For there to be a pre-trib rapture, you will have to add a pre-trib resurrection also because neither are in the Bible.

 

Hi ENOCH2010, blessings! It's more complicated than just Rev 20. There's things that have to take place before the 1,000 year reign with Christ. There's more scripture, more details, more revelation to these events. I'm also not thinking pre-trib rapture, I'm thinking 5th seal rapture. Post#5.

 

The complicated part is inventing another resurrection for a rapture that happens prior to the second coming