Under the Law

[ProphecyKid]

 

It seems to be a trend from some modern teachers to claim that returning to the law, as mentioned by Paul in Galatians, means a believer is attempting to become self-righteous by not sinning.  

 

 

Gal 2:16  know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

 

It’s my understanding the works of the law Paul is speaking about here are ceremonial things like feasts, holy days, circumcision etc.

Modern prosperity and WOF teachers suggest a Christian’s  circumspection about sin is placing them under the law.  They teach self-examination is self-righteousness.

 

It’s my understanding the only way to be under the law is to be an unbeliever. 

 

 

Gal 5:17-18  For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.  (18)  But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

 

What does being under the law mean and what is the law as mentioned by Paul in Galatians?

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. That's what I understand it to mean.

 

In the context of this verse do you believe Jesus was under the law? Consider this verse at well.

 

Gal 4:4  But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 

Gal 4:5  To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 

[Qnts2]

 

 

God made a covenant with Noah, his descendents and all animals, birds etc, to never judge the world by flood. God also made a covenant with Noah and his descendents, which I consider a covenant only for people. In the covenant with Noah and descendents, they were allowed to eat any animal for the first time, but were not to consume blood. Of course animals were not told to refrain from consuming blood. Animals are also not told to not commit murder. So, there are two covenants.  

 

 

 

 

The Rainbow covenant is a unilateral covenant, meaning that agreement was based on Gods promise alone with nothing required from man. So, it is still in effect based on God alone.

 

 

 

I've gone back and reread several times and I don't see where there are two covenants...

 

 

Ok, I'll put forth something which many will not agree with.

 

The Jewish people said they would observe all that God said at Mt. Sinai, for their entire lives and for all generations. So, all Jewish people became obligated to the Mosaic law at that point forward. Of course, we broke that law, but the covenant does not lapse because we violated our part of the bargain. It is still in effect because we said or entire lives and for all generations. The only way out of the Mosaic covenant, to cease being under obligation to this 'forever' covenant, is to accept Jesus completed work, who fulfilled all of the requirements of the Mosaic covenant. That is the only way to come into the New Covenant with better promises. But, for those Jewish people who have not accepted Jesus completed work, they are still obligated to the Mosaic law. Why? Because the Mosaic law is fading, but not yet faded, as long as there are Jewish people who are still under the Mosaic covenant. 

 

Now for the Noachide covenant. Well, Jesus also fulfilled that covenant, keeping it perfectly in terms of the laws of Noah. So, all Gentiles are born under that covenant, and of course, all have sinned, broken the covenant. To release a person from the wages of sin, Jesus died, was buried, and rose again, so any Gentile who believes on Jesus and His completed work, is no longer under the Noachide covenant but because of Jesus, has been brought under the New Covenant, Gentiles who have not accepted Jesus are still under the Noachide covenant. And of course, Jesus dd not die for animals, so animals do not change to the New  Covenant by faith in Jesus, and are still receiving the benefit of the Noachide covenant of the rainbow.

 

Neither the Noachide covenant nor the Mosaic covenant had any promise of eternal life, or the indwelling Holy Spirit. So, eternal salvation does not come thru the Noachide covenant or the Mosaic covenant. The only way to receive eternal life is thru Jesus Who offers the New Covenant.

[other one]

The laws of Noah are not in the Bible (Torah) but come from the Talmud.   I personally do not trust the things in the Talmud as being God given.

 

Do you realize that proclaiming Jesus as God is a violation of the Noahide Laws and makes that person subject to decapitation?

 

Public Law 102-14 states emphatically that all civilization from the beginning has been based upon a set of laws entitled "The Seven Noahide Laws"   Our own Government has tied the USA system to these laws......   and from my viewpoint they may not have come from God.  if they were important enough to build governments on I would expect them to at least be listed in Genesis.

[Qnts2]

The laws of Noah are not in the Bible (Torah) but come from the Talmud.   I personally do not trust the things in the Talmud as being God given.

 

Do you realize that proclaiming Jesus as God is a violation of the Noahide Laws and makes that person subject to decapitation?

 

Public Law 102-14 states emphatically that all civilization from the beginning has been based upon a set of laws entitled "The Seven Noahide Laws"   Our own Government has tied the USA system to these laws......   and from my viewpoint they may not have come from God.  if they were important enough to build governments on I would expect them to at least be listed in Genesis.

 

You might disagree with the 7 Noachide laws as given in the Talmud but it is clear in scripture that God gave Noah some laws when they departed from the ark, after the flood.

 

As far as proclamation 102-14, it was given to honor the head of the Lubavitch group, Rebbe Schneerson. It was a one day honor, on Schneersons birthday, to honor his education efforts. That was it. No binding law beyond, let's honor the Rebbe for his work to make the 7 Noachide laws known. That one time only day of honor for Schneerson has hit all kinds of sites, stating that Schneerson is forcing the 7 laws of Noah into the law of the U.S.  Simply not true. The rumor about decapitation for believing in Jesus is absolutely not true. There is no such penalty in Judaism, or the OT.

[Qnts2]

Just thought would actually post the words of the resolution being questioned.

 

H.J.RES.104 -- To designate March 26, 1991, as `Education Day, U.S.A.'. (Enrolled Bill [Final as Passed Both House and Senate] - ENR)

 

--H.J.Res.104--

H.J.Res.104

 

One Hundred Second Congress of the United States of America

 

AT THE FIRST SESSION

Begun and held at the City of Washington on Thursday, the third day of January,

one thousand nine hundred and ninety-one

Joint Resolution

To designate March 26, 1991, as `Education Day, U.S.A.'.

Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded;

Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws;

Whereas without these ethical values and principles the edifice of civilization stands in serious peril of returning to chaos;

Whereas society is profoundly concerned with the recent weakening of these principles that has resulted in crises that beleaguer and threaten the fabric of civilized society;

Whereas the justified preoccupation with these crises must not let the citizens of this Nation lose sight of their responsibility to transmit these historical ethical values from our distinguished past to the generations of the future;

Whereas the Lubavitch movement has fostered and promoted these ethical values and principles throughout the world;

Whereas Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, leader of the Lubavitch movement, is universally respected and revered and his eighty-ninth birthday falls on March 26, 1991;

Whereas in tribute to this great spiritual leader, `the rebbe', this, his ninetieth year will be seen as one of `education and giving', the year in which we turn to education and charity to return the world to the moral and ethical values contained in the Seven Noahide Laws; and

Whereas this will be reflected in an international scroll of honor signed by the President of the United States and other heads of state: Now, therefore, be it

 

• Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That March 26, 1991, the start of the ninetieth year of Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, leader of the worldwide Lubavitch movement, is designated as `Education Day, U.S.A.'. The President is requested to issue a proclamation calling upon the people of the United States to observe such day with appropriate ceremonies and activities.

Speaker of the House of Representatives.

Vice President of the United States and

President of the Senate.
 

[Qnts2]

These are basically the 7 Noachide laws according to the Talmud and Tosefta 

 

 

1. The prohibition of Idolatry
2. The prohibition of Murder
3. The prohibition of Theft.
4. The prohibition of Sexual Immorality
5. The prohibition of Blasphemy.
6. The prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive.
7. The requirement of maintaining courts to provide legal recourse.

These are not the exact same as the laws given to Noah in scripture. Some are from pre-Noah, and some are derived or understood to be included in the laws given to Noah.

So, these are from Rabbinic discussions concerning the scriptures and what laws were given to the descendents of Noah.

[Remnantrob]

 

 

It seems to be a trend from some modern teachers to claim that returning to the law, as mentioned by Paul in Galatians, means a believer is attempting to become self-righteous by not sinning.  

 

 

Gal 2:16  know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

 

It’s my understanding the works of the law Paul is speaking about here are ceremonial things like feasts, holy days, circumcision etc.

Modern prosperity and WOF teachers suggest a Christian’s  circumspection about sin is placing them under the law.  They teach self-examination is self-righteousness.

 

It’s my understanding the only way to be under the law is to be an unbeliever. 

 

 

Gal 5:17-18  For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.  (18)  But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

 

What does being under the law mean and what is the law as mentioned by Paul in Galatians?

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. That's what I understand it to mean.

 

In the context of this verse do you believe Jesus was under the law? Consider this verse at well.

 

Gal 4:4  But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 

Gal 4:5  To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 

 

As a matter of fact I do.  I believe Christ was made guilty before God because he was our sin bearer and that was how humanity was redeem of being guilty before God and are adopted into his family.  I stumbled on an interesting idea last week that I need to study further.  The promises of God to Abraham seem to be transferable.  In that culture the first born was always the one who received the blessings/birth rite but in Jacob and Esau's case it was transferred to the younger child.  Even way back with Cain and able, the redeemer should have came through the line of Cain by way of inheritance, but it was given to another child.  (was supposed to be Abel but it then was Seth)

[other one]

Just thought would actually post the words of the resolution being questioned.

 

H.J.RES.104 -- To designate March 26, 1991, as `Education Day, U.S.A.'. (Enrolled Bill [Final as Passed Both House and Senate] - ENR)

 

--H.J.Res.104--

H.J.Res.104

 

One Hundred Second Congress of the United States of America

 

AT THE FIRST SESSION

Begun and held at the City of Washington on Thursday, the third day of January,

one thousand nine hundred and ninety-one

Joint Resolution

To designate March 26, 1991, as `Education Day, U.S.A.'.

Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded;

Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws;

Whereas without these ethical values and principles the edifice of civilization stands in serious peril of returning to chaos;

Whereas society is profoundly concerned with the recent weakening of these principles that has resulted in crises that beleaguer and threaten the fabric of civilized society;

Whereas the justified preoccupation with these crises must not let the citizens of this Nation lose sight of their responsibility to transmit these historical ethical values from our distinguished past to the generations of the future;

Whereas the Lubavitch movement has fostered and promoted these ethical values and principles throughout the world;

Whereas Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, leader of the Lubavitch movement, is universally respected and revered and his eighty-ninth birthday falls on March 26, 1991;

Whereas in tribute to this great spiritual leader, `the rebbe', this, his ninetieth year will be seen as one of `education and giving', the year in which we turn to education and charity to return the world to the moral and ethical values contained in the Seven Noahide Laws; and

Whereas this will be reflected in an international scroll of honor signed by the President of the United States and other heads of state: Now, therefore, be it

 

• Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That March 26, 1991, the start of the ninetieth year of Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, leader of the worldwide Lubavitch movement, is designated as `Education Day, U.S.A.'. The President is requested to issue a proclamation calling upon the people of the United States to observe such day with appropriate ceremonies and activities.

Speaker of the House of Representatives.

Vice President of the United States and

President of the Senate.

 

 

 

Does not negate the fact that they declared that our laws stem from the Noahide Laws.....    and that is still in the congressional record      Our government says our laws came from something other than the Bible.....   Unless you think we should be studying and living by the writings of the Babylonian Talmud??   including the Kabbalah and the Zohar??????

[Qnts2]

 

Just thought would actually post the words of the resolution being questioned.

 

H.J.RES.104 -- To designate March 26, 1991, as `Education Day, U.S.A.'. (Enrolled Bill [Final as Passed Both House and Senate] - ENR)

 

--H.J.Res.104--

H.J.Res.104

 

One Hundred Second Congress of the United States of America

 

AT THE FIRST SESSION

Begun and held at the City of Washington on Thursday, the third day of January,

one thousand nine hundred and ninety-one

Joint Resolution

To designate March 26, 1991, as `Education Day, U.S.A.'.

Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded;

Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws;

Whereas without these ethical values and principles the edifice of civilization stands in serious peril of returning to chaos;

Whereas society is profoundly concerned with the recent weakening of these principles that has resulted in crises that beleaguer and threaten the fabric of civilized society;

Whereas the justified preoccupation with these crises must not let the citizens of this Nation lose sight of their responsibility to transmit these historical ethical values from our distinguished past to the generations of the future;

Whereas the Lubavitch movement has fostered and promoted these ethical values and principles throughout the world;

Whereas Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, leader of the Lubavitch movement, is universally respected and revered and his eighty-ninth birthday falls on March 26, 1991;

Whereas in tribute to this great spiritual leader, `the rebbe', this, his ninetieth year will be seen as one of `education and giving', the year in which we turn to education and charity to return the world to the moral and ethical values contained in the Seven Noahide Laws; and

Whereas this will be reflected in an international scroll of honor signed by the President of the United States and other heads of state: Now, therefore, be it

 

• Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That March 26, 1991, the start of the ninetieth year of Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, leader of the worldwide Lubavitch movement, is designated as `Education Day, U.S.A.'. The President is requested to issue a proclamation calling upon the people of the United States to observe such day with appropriate ceremonies and activities.

Speaker of the House of Representatives.

Vice President of the United States and

President of the Senate.

 

 

 

Does not negate the fact that they declared that our laws stem from the Noahide Laws.....    and that is still in the congressional record      Our government says our laws came from something other than the Bible.....   Unless you think we should be studying and living by the writings of the Babylonian Talmud??   including the Kabbalah and the Zohar??????

 

 

I think you are overstating and exaggerating. First of all, the laws are an interpretation of what it is believed from scripture that Noah was required to obey. That the understanding of scripture is recorded in another book and you object to that means that any Christian writing about scripture, is as invalid.

 

Second, it was a one day declaration. Nothing more. There have been thousands of these declarations. Just this one happens to be Jewish so those who do not like Jewish people have grabbed onto this and made it into something like a Jewish conspiracy against Christians. It is not. All kinds of misinformation has been passed around about this one day birthday recognition.

 

Finally,  please state how any of these are not scriptural, wrong, and why they are wrong:

 

1. The prohibition of Idolatry
2. The prohibition of Murder
3. The prohibition of Theft.
4. The prohibition of Sexual Immorality
5. The prohibition of Blasphemy.
6. The prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive.
7. The requirement of maintaining courts to provide legal recourse.