Legalistic past makes church hard nowadays!!

[Guest Butero]

James 2:24   Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith alone. 

[KC02]

I think any church could be controlling and can put their members in bondage. If you do not feel free to visit other churches, you are in bondage.

 

Your church seemed to be a bit controlling with their atribtary "do's and dont's." Every church isn't like that. So find a different one. God has a place for you. That's why I think it is important to visit other churches. It give you a perspective that you can't buy. God will let you know where you belong.

[Qnts2]

I won't write a book, but maybe someone here has some insight or experience in the realm of legalistic churches/cults. I grew up quasi religious mandatory church periodically and then catholic schools. Like many I partied and acted crazy in my teen years with all the regrets that behavior brings.

 

I was really searching by 21 after living a life fulfilling only worldly desires I craved more real meaning in life. I prayed the only way I knew how by saying Our Father, Hail Mary, and Glory Be prayers (catholic ones for those that aren't familiar}! Shortly after I as invited to a church by some young men who promised it would be different from anything I had ever seen, and he as right as I soon found out.

 

It was multi cultural, white, black, asian, young, old, very upbeat, and everyone was participating. The messages were bold and convicting and I felt as if this was it this was my calling and what I had been searching for, a purpose for being here.  After rigorous studies and subsequential baptism I was a member and believed the doctrine 100%. From all night prayer chains, to not working on Sunday, evangelizing with 100 people a week, street corner preaching, bible studies with strangers, making disciples, my whole life was "church" based. I would say God based, but there was so much expectation which led the the church's demise I'll use "church" instead. Of course I thought it was all God's work at this time, but looking back I see it differently. A true 10% gross income tithe and one time yearly church planting tithe of 23 times your weekly. No cursing, no dating out of church, no un chapperoned dates, no cigarettes, no alcohol 1 drink limit, constant keeping in check of ommissionary and commissionary sins and 100% participation by all members. I could go on and on

 

This church was the ICOC and it has scarred me for life!  I finally left after 9 years and have had a really hard time with faith and especially going to a church. I've been to 4 in 8 years and they all seem so watered down because my past experience was so strict and legalistic.

 

I've been struggling for so long it's really aggravating any advice on how to get past this? My main issues or the hypocrisy I see in normal churches, the lack of accountability, and then doctrine (I struggle with every piece what is 100% correct) and that all stems from my past.

 

Thanks for the help, advice, and prayers. Going to church tomorrow so

 

I looked up the ICOC. I see a great number of errors in what they teach, but one of the biggest errors is their involvement in the 'discipleship' movement, also known as the 'shepherding' movement. That movement and structure has had many different books and papers written about it, and against it, as it became very perverted in application. A lot of people were hurt by those movements. And yes, it is cultic or can very easily lead to a cultic style of church.

 

Since there are a lot of books written to help people who were involved in discipleship/shepherding, I would recommend looking at some of them. One of the earliest written that I know of is called 'The Bondage Breaker' by Neil Anderson.   

[jasil]

The one thing I am having the most trouble understanding is how this church experience scarred you for life?  It sounds like a great deal was expected of church members, but it doesn't seem like this would damage anyone, but I realize you probably just hit the highlights? 

 

My experience is that most of the churches today have gone so out of their way to flee from the legalism label, they have let down all standards.  That is why I have had trouble finding a church.  There needs to be something in between a church that requires all your church did and the anything goes churches of today.  I believe they exist, but are just hard to find.  A lot of the things you described taking place at your church sounded good, but not as a requirement to be saved. 

We believed that "those works"   was a requirement to be saved. That the bible clearly says salvation can be lost at what point? No one knows, but our take was let's be vigilant like the Bereans eager to learn and change. That your life had to reflect your faith and like many "cultic" churches we did not believe many were saved outside of our movement. Our justification for this was being extremely unyielding in a interpretation of bible scripture. Being a discipling movement it's easy for scarring to occur and I was as much the giver as the receiver. A typical week:

 

Monday- Wake up meet with brothers for 1hr prayer/quiet time there wer 4 of us.

               Go to school, share your faith with a handful of people on campus, study for school and read the bible between classes

               Work after school then home for dinner with the brothers as we would share about our day victories and struggles

               Call our discipler and whoever we disciple to see how there day was.

               Call any people we met during the week inviting them to bible talk on Tuesday with finger foods

               Go over the lesson for bible talk usually something that posed a question about "What a Christian is?" or "How would you know one if you saw one?" "What attributes would you see?"

 

Tuesday- Primarily the same

                Have the bible talk usually 2hrs long

 

Wed -     Primarily the same

               Church at 7pm then afterwards a meeting to see how your bible talk went were any visitors interested in coming to church on Sunday how many were receptive to the message preached.

               Call any people you met for a the bible talk on Thursday night that I supported.

 

Thursday- Primarily the same

                 Have the bible talk usually 2hrs long

 

Friday-       Was chaperoned date night meaning couples dates usually a movie pg over by 10pm only people within the church

                  Usually call your disciple after to make sure the date was pure and no one was struggling with lustful thoughts etc.

 

Sat-            Outreach with others. Usually hit up a park, mall, or place with a lot of people and invite people to church for Sunday.

                   At night babysit for married couples so they could have date night then have prayer chain for the people who came to bible talk that week and for visitors on Sunday.

 

Sun-            Same routine just today was church

                    Afterwards engage with any visitors you brought or that came etc.

                    3pm meeting about church, attendance, who was struggling in their faith, who came to church, where were they in there studies, receptive etc etc

 

Repeat the following week while still being excellent in school bad grades were not acceptable your life was constantly in question trying to blotch out any sin that was present. I believed it 100000% it was real, we cared truly cared, in your life, saying the hard stuff challenging type of caring! If it you weren't bearing fruit in all areas of your life what Lord are you really serving?, over time it was exhausting. With emulating Jesus as the standard you could never do enough because are all sinners, but the desire was to always try to be like him. In most churches i have been to since  it is as common to miss as it is to go........that would never be accepted? "Hey Bro, didn't see you at church on Sunday? You okay? Sick? What's wrong?"

 

If you were not bringing visitors to church the question was always why? The fields are ripe! If we aren't being blessed there must be a reason God is withholding, Is there hidden sin in your life? I preached it I was a leader for years, but over time it was almost unsustainable. Then if there was sin like pornography, missing church, R rate movies, masturbation, that was always a long conversation about we are Temple made in God's image we spit on the cross by willingly giving in to sin. How can we do that to the Savior that died for us? Discipleship time could get intense. Everyone in the church had discipleship partners, so many ours of your week was devoted to that.

 

I could go on and on!

 

What this does is it producing a church environment very different from a normal church. You have 99% participation, everyone has a bible, everyone is on board and committed, everyone tithes, one conglomerate for 1 purpose, all sharing, all sacrificing, all driven for the same cause. You could talk to anyone in church about anything because we all had been through the same thing spiritually. The same studies, the same conviction, the same standard to live!

 

 

So, going to a normal church it's always lacking something. The body doesn't share their faith, they don't really participate, there are few true relationships, people never talk about the heart or sin, just the fluffy stuff. Add to that dating, some allow smoking, drinking, watching R rated movies, I start to question everything. Usually the churches that do well at outward adherence the church is dead. No new people, no inviting the masses the lost, no blanket standard.

 

The first church I went too I was still very very set in my ways. I asked the pastor after church if we could talk. We talked about their plan for salvation etc etc and I asked how was sin handled in the church. He looked perplexed. "When people are in sin and it's apparent how is their heart dealt with?" His response was "The blood cleanses us and we try to meet people where they are at with love of Jesus!" my reply was "So, you don't do anything pretty much? There is no challenge for righteousness? Do ya'll confess sins to each other? How do you know if your brother/sister is being righteous if no one is in their life!"

 

It went on for awhile I didn't go back there. It's hard most churches believe "Saved by faith which produce good works" we believed "Saved by faith, but if you aren't producing good works it's obvious you aren't saved Or need a major heart check!"

 

That's paraphrased in laymens terms, but pretty much it. Most people we would say aren't saved because look at their life it doesn't match up to what the bible asks of us.

 

                

 

James 2:24   Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith alone. 

Agreed x100000000000000%

 

 

I won't write a book, but maybe someone here has some insight or experience in the realm of legalistic churches/cults. I grew up quasi religious mandatory church periodically and then catholic schools. Like many I partied and acted crazy in my teen years with all the regrets that behavior brings.

 

I was really searching by 21 after living a life fulfilling only worldly desires I craved more real meaning in life. I prayed the only way I knew how by saying Our Father, Hail Mary, and Glory Be prayers (catholic ones for those that aren't familiar}! Shortly after I as invited to a church by some young men who promised it would be different from anything I had ever seen, and he as right as I soon found out.

 

It was multi cultural, white, black, asian, young, old, very upbeat, and everyone was participating. The messages were bold and convicting and I felt as if this was it this was my calling and what I had been searching for, a purpose for being here.  After rigorous studies and subsequential baptism I was a member and believed the doctrine 100%. From all night prayer chains, to not working on Sunday, evangelizing with 100 people a week, street corner preaching, bible studies with strangers, making disciples, my whole life was "church" based. I would say God based, but there was so much expectation which led the the church's demise I'll use "church" instead. Of course I thought it was all God's work at this time, but looking back I see it differently. A true 10% gross income tithe and one time yearly church planting tithe of 23 times your weekly. No cursing, no dating out of church, no un chapperoned dates, no cigarettes, no alcohol 1 drink limit, constant keeping in check of ommissionary and commissionary sins and 100% participation by all members. I could go on and on

 

This church was the ICOC and it has scarred me for life!  I finally left after 9 years and have had a really hard time with faith and especially going to a church. I've been to 4 in 8 years and they all seem so watered down because my past experience was so strict and legalistic.

 

I've been struggling for so long it's really aggravating any advice on how to get past this? My main issues or the hypocrisy I see in normal churches, the lack of accountability, and then doctrine (I struggle with every piece what is 100% correct) and that all stems from my past.

 

Thanks for the help, advice, and prayers. Going to church tomorrow so

I looked up the ICOC. I see a great number of errors in what they teach, but one of the biggest errors is their involvement in the 'discipleship' movement, also known as the 'shepherding' movement. That movement and structure has had many different books and papers written about it, and against it, as it became very perverted in application. A lot of people were hurt by those movements. And yes, it is cultic or can very easily lead to a cultic style of church.

 

Since there are a lot of books written to help people who were involved in discipleship/shepherding, I would recommend looking at some of them. One of the earliest written that I know of is called 'The Bondage Breaker' by Neil Anderson.   

 

 

 

Discipleship is abusive, but at the same time if you are being honest with yourself it helps so much too. I will read it though.

Edited December 4, 2013 by jasil