justinithewriterguy Posted January 2, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 22 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/20/1982 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 For the time being, my answer will have to be "I don't know". I am sorry if it seems I am dodging your question, it is a genuine response, although chosen carefully. I fear that making the discussion about me will be counter-productive. I have no issue with those who wish to witness to me (did I say that right?). It means you genuinely care about me, a stranger, and I find that very endearing and compelling. All I ask is that you also assist me in the worldly understanding I think I am seeking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 2, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 909 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,656 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,839 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2014 My goal here is to understand what you believe, and eventually, how you are misunderstood and misrepresented. If you believe my capacity for understanding Christianity is limited in my current mindset, I will speak honestly to that. I do not think I am trying to disprove anything, but if that is your view, I will speak honestly to that as well. I can see that my approach may be frustrating, and I welcome your criticism in this regard. While I believe my intentions are to gain what worldly understanding I am capable of, as many of you might say, "God works in mysterious ways". I would feel dishonest and cynical if I did not come to you with an open heart and mind. Perhaps I do not realize that my mind is not truly open, I am open to that possibility as well. All I can promise is that I truly feel I am coming to you with an open heart and mind. I begin my reading tomorrow. I will post from time to time in this thread to let you know where I am at, to share any verses I find particularly compelling or interesting, or to share any interesting stories or experiences. In the future, I will likely have specific questions which I will post outside of this thread. I thank you all for your assistance, your guidance and your prayers. Happy new year! My point was... even if you are not trying to be antagonistic to the faith... that the cross is foolishness to the world. 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV) 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Sorry. If you are not one of us you will never "get" us no matter how hard you try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted January 2, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,799 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2014 For the time being, my answer will have to be "I don't know". I am sorry if it seems I am dodging your question, it is a genuine response, although chosen carefully. I fear that making the discussion about me will be counter-productive. I have no issue with those who wish to witness to me (did I say that right?). It means you genuinely care about me, a stranger, and I find that very endearing and compelling. All I ask is that you also assist me in the worldly understanding I think I am seeking. I didnt expect an answer right this moment lol. I hope that you will consider this while you are learning about our beliefs. Ask the Lord what He would have you believe too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinithewriterguy Posted January 3, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 22 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/20/1982 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 It looks like I will be reading the NASB and NIV Bibles. As I was reading Genesis, I took a look at the Message Bible, and I can see why some of you don't care for it. Instead of reading like a religious text, it reads like a screenplay. The original source material is compelling enough to not need the added dramatical flair. Do you agree with my assessment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinithewriterguy Posted January 3, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 22 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/20/1982 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 My first introduction into the complexity of The Bible and potential translations comes in the form of the Curse of Ham. I see that there are many interpretations of what exactly Ham did. What do you think Ham did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted January 3, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,799 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 3, 2014 My first introduction into the complexity of The Bible and potential translations comes in the form of the Curse of Ham. I see that there are many interpretations of what exactly Ham did. What do you think Ham did? 20 And Noah began to be a husbandman. And he planted a vineyard. 21 And he drank of the wine and was drunk. And he was uncovered inside his tent. 22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. 23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it upon both their shoulders. And they went backwards and covered the nakedness of their father. And their faces were backwards, and they did not see their father's nakedness. 24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and came to know what his younger son had done to him. Ham saw his father drunk and went to tell his brothers. They covered up his nakedness without gazing on him. I know many make all sorts of claims about actions Ham took on Noah, but I think it is simply that Ham mocked Noah to his brothers. Which may not seem all that bad to us, but it breaks one of the 10 commandments and was something punishable under the law of Moses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted January 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted January 4, 2014 My first introduction into the complexity of The Bible and potential translations comes in the form of the Curse of Ham. I see that there are many interpretations of what exactly Ham did. What do you think Ham did? This is the very core of the problem of biblical interpretation. It doesn't matter what I 'think' about what is or is not written. When I use my carnal mind to seek to understand that which is written, God becomes a warlike punishing God to me because I fail to see my own sin causing me the trouble that I have. I don't understand the effect of my sin upon future generations as what I do today cannot simply be undone but runs its course. I begin to judge God unworthy of being God due to all that which I am lacking in my own understanding. I had to learn that my thoughts do not originate from within me as a product of my own mind and therefore I have a skewed perception of all things except I have the mind of God which can only be had through being conformed to his image through the power of his spirit. If the spirit of God within man chooses to reveal things which cannot be seen in the text within the context then that man will have a deeper understanding of the truth. If a spirit which is not of God is doing the revealing, they are revealing nothing more than a lie. Herein lies mans dilemma. If he trusts God and does as the text suggest is moral, just and right, receiving Gods Spirit which produces the fruit of love, joy, peace, patience, meekness, temperance, goodness, gentleness and faith that are unfeigned and genuine, then that man will see the truth about the Kingdom of God and the Holy Scriptures. God is God period. He must rule over his creation. Whatever Ham did it would have to be met with a corrective action. As we can see from the text the correction he was given caused his posterity to be ruled over by their brethren. There is much more involved but one needs to study and work to understand God for a long period of time to begin to understand the truth of the process though God could give understanding in an instant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack Mann Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) I am not sure we can compare Christianity with other religions. "Other religions" do not believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who "died on a cross as a sacrifice for the sins of all men." This is a major obstacle. One must first believe that in the Bible, and only in the Bible, do we find revealed the Remedial System by which is effected the healing of the wounds caused by sin. Religion is a system of means of reconciliation--an instituition for bringing man back to God---something to bind man anew to love and delight in God. According to the Genesis record, true religion had its beginning in the account of the sacrifices offered Yahweh by Cain and Able (Gen. 4:1-15). Judaism rejected Jesus of Nazareth because He did not live up to their idea of the coming Messiah and crucified him for being a "blasphemer." Islam believes that Jesus was a prophet, but not "the Prophet" of Deuteronomy 18:15. To the world of Islam, Mohammed is identified as this "Prophet." Hence, the Qur'an revealed to Mohammed as "dictated" by the angel Gabriel, in Arabic, in a "cave near Mecca." The Christian world is divided over "theology" (Catholicism/Protestantism) that dates back to Augustine (d. A.D. 430), Martin Luther before him. John Calvin, a Catholic priest became disenchanted with the Catholic Church begin to teach, and write his five point "Reformed" formula into a systematic theology--- "Institutes of the Christian Religion." If your "book" promotes a "major understanding between all the world religions" you no doubt will be listed among the world's top religious scholars and writers. Something to reflect on as you begin-----There was no religion before the fall of man, either in Heaven or Paradise. There was no religion in Paradise, while it was the home of Adam, for there was no bond broken. Accordingly, religion began after the fall of man. In like manner, there was no religion in heaven. There was superlative admiration and adoration, but no religion This brief discussion of the word 'religion' will save you many blunders and much unprofitable thought; provide you understand how it radiates and ramifies throughout all the statute of morality and piety Edited January 4, 2014 by Jack Mann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Only I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 1 John 2:21-26 One Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6 ~ ....If your "book" promotes a "major understanding between all the world religions" you no doubt will be listed among the world's top religious scholars and writers. Something to reflect on as you begin-----There was no religion before the fall of man, either in Heaven or Paradise. There was no religion in Paradise, while it was the home of Adam, for there was no bond broken. Accordingly, religion began after the fall of man. In like manner, there was no religion in heaven. There was superlative admiration and adoration, but no religion.... Welcome Jack~! ~ Amen~! For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. Isaiah 57:15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinithewriterguy Posted January 5, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 22 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/20/1982 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 I think I should clarify. I am not trying to interpret the Bible, I am trying to learn more about Christianity. I respect that you believe I will not be able to understand the message with my approach. Though I will seek to understand what I can with my approach, what I am really interested in is you, and what you believe. I will not be comparing religious belief. I will not be promoting, defending or criticizing any particular belief. My goal is to explore the shared experience of being misunderstood or misrepresented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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