Considering the prophecy of Matthew 24:29

[Spock]

My two pennies-

29“Immediately after the distress of those days

“ ‘the sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Spock's musings for free because you asked-

Literal meaning, and if think the stars falling are probably shooting stars which as you know are not literal stars, but meteors.

The sign indicates the time of the rapture, not his second coming. His angels gather his elect- the faithful believers - upon the last trumpet call ( another rapture hint). They are gathering in Heaven not on earth, which is another reason for rapture and not second coming.

Up, up, and away we go....on to the bema seat judgement for believers.

How did I do?

Spock out

[rollinTHUNDER]

My two pennies-

29“Immediately after the distress of those days

“ ‘the sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Spock's musings for free because you asked-

Literal meaning, and if think the stars falling are probably shooting stars which as you know are not literal stars, but meteors.

The sign indicates the time of the rapture, not his second coming. His angels gather his elect- the faithful believers - upon the last trumpet call ( another rapture hint). They are gathering in Heaven not on earth, which is another reason for rapture and not second coming.

Up, up, and away we go....on to the bema seat judgement for believers.

How did I do?

I like it!   Good point about the falling stars being meteors also.  It's funny, those who think Matt. 24 is about the second coming place this in God's wrath, while those of us that think it's the rapture place it before God's wrath.  Hmmmm, just like it was in the days of Noah!  And Christ didn't even come then.  Just saying.

 

Cheers

[MorningGlory]

Pls what do you all think about Matthew chapter 24 verse 29. Does the prophecy imply being literal or symbolic? I have my own symbolic interpretation but I don't know your own opinions. I will gladly quote the passage. "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky and the powers of space will be shaken" Concerning the part which says the moon will not shine, on my own opinion it means Islam will cease as a common religion or will cease to dominate the earth since the moon is a symbol of Islam. Islam will not give its light. I don't know the part about the sun but it should also be symbolic. The stars, in prophecy represents an angel. So the stars of heaven that will fall are perhaps fallen angels or spirits of the sky or gods that will lose their position in heavens. This may mean that worship of idols will cease. The powers of space or the heavens are perhaps the planets or stars or hosts. They will be shaken. The ancient Romans worshipped gods which had the name of planets for example Mercury the messenger of the gods and Jupiter the king. So the powers of heaven being shaken may mean that the planets which represent Roman gods will be shaken from their course. It may mean that Roman worship of gods or idolatry as a whole will cease to exist. Whereby God will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed. Islam and other pagan forms of worship will stop during or after the tribulation of those days. Pls I need your opinions.

 

I believe the passage to be literal also.  That being said, Witness, you have the ability to think much more deeply on things than I ever could (nor could most people I know!)  You're young, brother; your thoughts will change over the years.  Just don't give up on your striving to understand.  It's what all of us should do even though no one knows for SURE what God will do until He does it.   

[kingdomwitness]

Thanks guys for your answers and for keeping this thread alive

[MorningGlory]

Thanks guys for your answers and for keeping this thread alive

 

 

Just went to your profile; I didn't realize that you're only fifteen, Witness!  You are SO mature for your age.  Keep studying and learning.  

[GlidingWings]

Hi Spock. Taking a look at those verses Matthew 24: 28-31 might seem as only as being the Rapture all by itself. . It looks that way. But there is much more context other verses to explain the Matt. 24: 29 verse.

Number 1 is Matthew 24 must be seen as a whole chapter. Because Jesus shares the testimony which we often call the Olivet Discourse of which of course Jesus at this time went upon mount Olives. The topic of Matt 24 is based on the questions that the disciples asked Jesus.

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

These is a 2 part question which actually means the same thing. For it is because the end of the age and his second appearing would occur during the same frame of time. So the End of the age and His second appearing happens simultaneous asked in the same verse since this is what the Disciples wanted to know.

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all[a] these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences,[b] and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

So the signs Jesus tells us from verses 4-14 are the Birth pangs (sorrows) those that will approach the great tribulation. For when we see these Birth pangs we will know we are getting close to the great Tribulation but even as in labor a woman feels pain when about to deliver her baby. A woman will say I feel this every 90 seconds. Weeks later she says now I feel it every sixty seconds. By the time she is about to give birth now her pain is only seconds apart.

So to know this we know that wars, earthquakes, famines and pestilence will occur very often as like an every day common News event.. Jesus said there would be great tribulation.

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

While there has been great disaster in the past such as 1907 SF quake at that time was more rare of a great quake. But the 1990s had 1/3 of all great disasters in the 20^th century. Which means every one of 3 great disasters in the 20th century took place in the1990s. This tell us there is a great increase pushing us closer to Bible prophecy end times.

Here in the 21st century we are keeping at the 1900's rates even with more perhaps severe natural disasters. Think of Katrina, Floyd, Sandy to name a few. Think of Oklahoma Tornado ripping through one of the worse in History. The west has received a lot of 7.0 quakes. Then there is Haiti and Japan. There was a great famine in Africa countries...

Countries that suffer from famine include Ethiopia, Bangladesh, Cambodia and Sudan in Africa and they are referred to as third world countries. A lot of the famine and starvation occur in these countries because they don't have enough money and resources to keep their people healthy and well fed. Even though there are still people who are starving and homeless in the first world countries, they normally receive some kind of aid from the country they live in. http://www.ask.com/question/what-countries-suffer-from-famine and in 1980 to 1990 Nigeria.

I know this was about 3 or short years ago. Well I'm just one person. I mean I can only know so much of the world disasters. By I know the Headliner ones just as most people do that take up the news papers for days or weeks. Those can’t be missed. .

It appears we have gotten a lot closer to the first 42 months. However we are still dealing with God’s calendar. So to be safe I say is believe from now to 2050 we will most likely see the last 7 years before Jesus Second return.

Now then after all this in verses 15-18 is mentioned the abomination of desolation who stands in Judea for they who are there in that place is to run to the Wilderness for safety.

15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.

God will take care of these people who run and take safety. Some believe it may be in the area of Petra. I don’t dispute this. For after all I don’t know the landscape of Israel to know one way or the other. But I did see this on TV and a narrow way shows that tanks are not able to get in this place. Aircraft though could bomb this area. But if they have Gods’ protection in Petra then no one will enter this place.

This prophecy we are warned in Daniel 12 of this man of desolate. This is why the Bible now tell us in Matthew 24:21 then shall come Great Tribulation being worse. So after the abomination is revealed we call this the great trib of 3 1/2 years after the first 42 months.

There is no great detail exactly what events happen in this time frame. That why Daniel should be understood plus the book of Revelation of these 2 books that give more elaborate descriptions. For that reason is probably why some assume this to be a Rapture only event.

Not so until I later learned that Matt 24:29 is actually the Sixth seal in Revelation. This is Rev. 6

The Coming of the Son of Man

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

 

Sixth Seal: Cosmic Disturbances

12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold,[e] there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon[f] became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders,[g] the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Matt 24:29 and the sixth seal are the same event to show Matthew 24 is a part of Revelation Book prophecies. So this is the same event. In Matt 24 we see the gathering aspect on the last trumpet. Yet in the sixth seal aspect we see the wrath aspect. So which is true Rapture or wrath? The answer is both. First in 1Thess 4: 16-17

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

This is called the Supper of the lamb ‘Jesus the Lamb that was slain’ He the Groom will unite with the Bride at the end of the Age which is the end of the Tribulation 3 ½ years. Because take notice that it says ‘ After these days’ so it is after and not before these days. Sure proof these happen together in 2Thess 2:1-3. that says

The Great Apostasy

2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[b] is revealed, the son of perdition,

So Matthew 24 agrees this is Christ appearing and gathering a few verses apart. But it takes the Rev. aspect sixth seal to also know this is also a day of wrath.

For the answer lies in the final scripture ace of hearts as in the game of Hearts save the best for last. See in Rev. 11: 15-19 there is one seventh trumpet.

Seventh Trumpet: The Kingdom Proclaimed

15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms[f] of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” 16 And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:

“We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
The One who is and who was and who is to come,[g]
Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”

19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant[h] was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

There is not 2 seventh trumpets. Jesus only appears on this last one. Matt 24 has a trumpet and 1Thess has one also. They are both the last trumpet and they are both the seventh trumpet. It is the day both the gathering with the Lord and the day of His wrath to those who followed after the Beast. It seems like 2 events but it is not. Some parts of the Bible showing them going up to meet him. Others show they are going down with him. So some assume that was seven years they were taken. But this is one event only the purpose to gather with him in the air being joined whit Christ the true believers. Those will be the ones chosen for the 1000 year to rule with Christ on Earth. Those were they that came out of the great trib. Both killed for Christ and those who were alive who lived in Christ.

So I sum it up . Dan 12, Matthew 24, 1Thess, 2Thess, Rev. 6 sixth seal and Rev.11

This is a 2 part event that happens in one day when Jesus appears. Jesus is not going to bounce off the clouds for 7 years and show up 7 years later. . But He will return just the way He left. From the Earth to the first Heaven into the second and third. Return approach just the same way. But now the opposite. From the third to the second and then the first Heaven down the the earth.

Acts 1 Jesus Ascends to Heaven

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

[Spock]

Greetings GW,

I decided not to quote your post because it is too long to put here again, so I will make a few observations of what I gleaned from that very LONG post. Lol

1. I too see the 6th seal as Matthew 24:29

2. I do not believe the last trump is the same trumpet in revelations. I believe the last trump is associated with God's festival of trumpets called Roshhashannha. Spelling?

3. I'm not sure what you were saying here- do you think the rapture and second coming are on the same day? That's what it sounded like to me. If I am wrong, please explain.

By the way, thanks for adding me as a friend. I could always use one more.

[GlidingWings]

 Hi Spock. Well yeah I believe the Rapture and Jesus second appearing happens on the same day. The reason why is both in Matthew 24:30-31 and 1Thess 4:16-17 both give a similar description. They are Jesus in the clouds, the last trumpet and a world wide gathering. I believe it would make sense Jesus would only gather once because this is the Bride meeting the Groom. The Church meeting and uniting with Christ.

 

This would fulfill the promise in Daniel 12:2.

2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

This is why this is called’ The Day of the Lord”. Day is singular which would point out that this event can not happen 2 times in a split 7 year 2 different events.

Because if they were split then a person would need to decide which one of these is called Day of the Lord Rapture or second coming? Which of these is called the Day of the Son of Man Rapture or second coming? If the rapture and second coming were 2 events 7 years apart both can't be called the Day of the Lord and the Son of Man. Rather I believe the Day of the Lord has been repeated many times in the New Testament and the Son of Man being repeated in the New Testament because it begins with Jesus second return in great judgment.

 

Number 1 Jesus will judge the Dead those who lived during the great trib and those alive contempt into the the lake of fire and the righteous to meet the Lord in the air First resurrection Rev. Chapter 20.

The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Chapter 20 is right after chapter 19 when Jesus arrives on a White Horse. He who is called Faithful and True.

Christ on a White Horse

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.

He destroys the armies and throws the beast and the false Prophet in the lake of fire. He will also judge they who followed the Beast who also will see Gnashing and wailing of teeth. This including anyone who died who followed after the beast.

The Beast and His Armies Defeated

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

The first resurrection only those who came out of the great trib both alive and those who died in those days. So in Chapter 20 The rest were Dead for the 1000 years to wait for the final 2 resurrection. So the first resurrection happens when Jesus appears the second time Which explains the transition from chapter 19 to chapter 20 who actually comes out of the great trib, who these Saints are and who will rule with Christ for for 1000 years. For they who were gathered on this day also will rule with Christ and always be with him where Christ goes. For they obtained eternal life cause God had changed their bodies from corruptible to incorruptible.

Spock I apologize my post is long. I’m going to make this my first post. Now I will make a second post about the Matt 24:29 aspect sign. And guess what? I am actually learning as I go along. I found proof on this scripture tonight which I share in my next post.

[GlidingWings]

I don’t believe the Matt 24:29 is talking about the Trumpet of the Feast Rosh Hashanah. If that were the case we would then be talking pretty much a normal circumstance every day kind of weather pattern and pleasant Earthly condition.

The Trumpet of the Feast would look very ordinary concerning the great events wars, disasters, Deaths, and fires that occur during the last 3 and a half years. Something more than the trumpet of feast is or should catch our attention of the sky.

A sign or signs no one and especially Christians would not miss these. All my life looking at the sun and moon never noticed a Trumpet feast The sun and the moon always normal pretty much. Only except when we had 3 fires in Los Angeles County, San Bernadino and San Diego. I looked up and seen a very dark red sun. I’m telling you now this sun was Apocalyptic scary looking blazing dark red. This lasted as long as the fires were in that area.

The aspect of the sun, moon, and stars are a Sixth seal Judgment. Judgment is greater than a natural event. Trumpet of feast would be natural not considered a judgment. But if something else is to happen to the sun, moon, and stars on Gods’ own doing then this is an act of Judgment. Tonight after reading these Six scrolls or 7 seals, I read closer about these first 4 trumpets. Here is the answer about the sun, moon, and the stars spoken in Matthew 24:29.

See in Rev.8 the first trumpet burned up one third of the trees and grass. In the second trumpet one third of the sea creatures died. Now in the third trumpet see there is a great star a Meteor that is called “Wormwood’. This meteor hits the water and makes it bitter. This is proof meteors would land on the the Earth.

Star in Greek may be translated to ‘Aster’ a Heavenly body falling down to the Earth. The Early civilization who read God's scripture probably did not know what comets, asteroids, and meteorites exactly were without telescopes. . They could however comprehend this comes from the 2 Heaven where the stars are located. So a second Heaven Heavenly asteroid or meteorite ‘Aster' in English Star New Kings James hits the water wormwood and makes the water bitter where men will die from this.

Then see in the fourth trumpet the Lord God will strike the one third of the sun, one third of the moon, and one third of the stars. It then says something very important? They were ‘Darkened’.

12 Then the fourth angel sounded: And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened.

So we know God made made the sun, moon, and stars to be darkened on the Fourth Trumpet. God's help with the holy Angels that will carry about the fourth trumpet striking the Sun, moon, and stars.

So if God on the fourth trumpet makes these Dark why then in Matt 24:29 the Sun was Darkened and the moon not giving its light and the stars falling and the Heavens were shaken so on the Fourth trumpet? We will know the time is near. For the sun, moon, and stars being darkened by God himself. Will then we know the Day of the Lord is near. So between the 4^th to the last 7^th trumpet will be close in a time frame that we know these are the closest signs to his second appearing.

Why is God pouring out all these judgments? Well the Antichrist is alive. Satan is right there ruling the Earth. People are worshiping Satan through the Beast. These people are doing very evil, wicked, and detestable sins in the sight of God.

This is why I believe the Judgments happen before Jesus returns. Many people may actually repent when they see some of the judgments. They may fear God and give their life over to Christ. Because God wants to make people ready before Jesus return.

[rollinTHUNDER]

I just edited my sloppy long post.  Also put more teeth in it (meat).