OEC and The New Heavens and New Earth

[Guest]

Well, if it was meant as literal history, why is the fall of mankind not referenced in any other book of the Old Testament? And, as I posted to LookingForAnswers, a parable doesn't need to account for every aspect of the narrative, e.g., "why would an immortal being need a Tree of Life?" All it needs is the moral of the story.

 

 

Well Beloved

 

but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." Genesis 2:17 (NASB)

 

That Sin Story

 

So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, Romans 5:18-21 (NASB)

 

Was God's History

 

"Behold, I have found only this, that God made men upright, but they have sought out many devices." Ecclesiastes 7:29 (NASB)

 

Given To Men To Cherish  

 

But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3 (NASB)

 

And It Really Helps To Explain

 

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22 (NASB)

 

The Very End Of

 

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- Romans 5:12 (NASB)

 

It All

 

Cursed is the ground because of you; Genesis 3:17(e) (NASB)

 

As I Read It

 

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.

 Revelation 20:11 (NASB)

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Number 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest]

I'm still waiting for that Holy Grail of scripture that says Adam was meant to be eternal on earth. 

 

~

 

God

 

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 1:31

 

Is Good

 

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:17

 

Man, Not So Much

 

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:21-22

[enoob57]

I'm still waiting for that Holy Grail of scripture that says Adam was meant to be eternal on earth.

The strongest evidence is the very intent of God revealed in the Scripture

Luke 13:27-30

27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me,

all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth,

when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the

kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the

east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit

down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first,

and there are first which shall be last.

KJV

This is the revealed intent of God of that which was first shall be that which

is last and reiteration that which is last will be first... being a no brainer

what is the first Genesis creation and all was good ~ what is last the eternal

state of New Heaven and New Earth.

Rev 22:1-3

22 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding

out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it,

and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve

manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the

tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse:

but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall

serve him:

KJV

Love, Steven

[anthonyjmcgirr]

It would've been weird to experience how the world transformed and how they personally transformed from perfection to aged.  Adam was created as a fully-mature adult male, so I wonder what his true age would've been.  Did it start at the curse or the day he was created?

[LookingForAnswers]

 

Simple question...why would an immortal being need a Tree of Life?

He wouldn't.  The Bible doesn't say that Adam and Eve had to eat from the tree of life in order to remain alive prior to their fall in the Garden.  The Tree of Life only became a problem after they sinned.   Adam and Eve got their life from God.  They would not have had to depend on the tree of life for their existence.  The tree of life isn't the same kind of life that we can get from God.   The tree of life might have provided immortality, but not eternal life.

 

The theological lesson in that story is that after they sinned, God would not let them reach out under their own strength and gain for themselves what they needed to have from God and God alone. If Adam and Eve had reached out and taken from the tree of life, they would have had immtorality but not eternal life.   They would have spent eternity separated from God in misery, sickness and decay.

 

In the same way, people who depend on religion to save them, who depend on good deeds to give them eternal life things they can do in their own strength will only be disappointed and they will spend  their immortality in an eternity separated from God.

 

 

Then the Tree of Life had no actual purpose, it was just as symbol because God knew that man was going to fall away?  I have trouble with that.

[LookingForAnswers]

Blessings Shiloh....

      I am  really hysterical with your last post.....but it really is true,there are times that I don't particularly care for the way you may answer & think it a bit harsh but I suppose thats just because it is different from my approach,,,,,,,,,,,,regardless,you said the truth,,,,,people need to just produce Biblical,Scriptoral evidence that is in contrast to something you state as a fact.............they cannot,so they stomp their feet & call you a meanie...LOL

     Anyway,sorry I went  off topic but I could not resist-LOL     Anyway ,no where in scripture have I ever read where man would have been eternal had he not eaten of the forbidden fruit but it is pretty obvious to me that the world is corruptable & will go back to the incorruptable state that it was in before the fall when we have the new heavens & the new earth....isn't God telling us that he will give us what He intended for us before we messed it up& what we did have in the Garden?

                                                                                                                      With Love,in Christ-Kwik

 

Truth does not need to be rude or arrogant.   It seems that God is giving us even more than what was in the initial creation as there will be no possibility of sin, which is different than the original creation.   In fact I would say that the world prior to Adam sinning was not incorruptible at all, as we all know that it was corrupted.   The new heavens and earth will in fact be incorruptible, something the original heavens and earth were not.

[LookingForAnswers]

 

Well, if it was meant as literal history, why is the fall of mankind not referenced in any other book of the Old Testament? And, as I posted to LookingForAnswers, a parable doesn't need to account for every aspect of the narrative, e.g., "why would an immortal being need a Tree of Life?" All it needs is the moral of the story.

Also, unlike Shiloh, I don't have to jump through hermeneutic hoops to resolve other events relative to the fall of man.

It reads like a parable, a parable that is literally fleshed-out in the opening of John's Gospel.

 

 

The creation account of Genesis 1-3 does not read as a parable by any stretch of the imagination.  It has none of the hallmarks of a parable. 

[LookingForAnswers]

Just becuase YOU haven't seen it in the Scriptures doesn't mean I am the one making assumptions.   Adam died spritiually the minute he disobeyed God.  His physical death is connected to that because God said the following:

 

And to Adam he said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, 'You shall not eat of it,' cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return." (Gen 3:17-19)

 

So it is pretty clear that curse of death extended to man spiritually and physically due to Adam's disoebdience.   So if man were already set to die physically even if he hadn't sinned, that curse makes no sense.   So if man hadn't died spiritually, he would not have died physically.

 

 

There is nothing in this passage that says that death in the physical sense was part of the curse, just that till he died he would have to toil under the curse.

[LookingForAnswers]

Another question this brings to my mind, though it might need its own thread, is what was the purpose of the Garden?  Why did God plant a special garden for man if it was no different than the rest of the planet?  

[kwikphilly]

LookingForAnswers

    

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