We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not

[RustyAngeL]

We are getting deep here folks, and I like it! 

It is true that the identity for the true Christian is SAINT (hagios-holy (set apart) ones). We are redeemed, we are the children of the living God and our adopted spirit cries out ABBA Father! There is a sinful nature resident in our tent, our body. Because of this, we need to be being continually filled with Holy Spirit and walk in Him so that we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (sarx -sinful nature). A person can be as free from sin as what they are surrendered to the Spirit. We can only be entirely freed from the sinful nature by ridding ourself of the body (death or translation), but this in no way means that we cannot resist the activity of sin. Much of the NT, some of which has been quoted in this thread, speaks to instructing the Christian how to not sin, how to walk in the Spirit. If one can abstain from sin for 5 seconds, then one can for 5 minutes, 5 hours, etc. It is simply a matter of submitting oneself as a living sacrifice, putting on the full armor of God, etc. and so forth ad nauseum!!! I disagree with the assessment that born-again Christians cannot help but sin continuously. That gravitates against hundreds of verses instructing us n ot to sin and how not to sin. If it were all in vain, then why all the exhotations!?!?

I agree.  We as born again believers will always sin as long as we are in this world and in these bodies, but to be a believer and knowingly going out and sin is another matter all together.  We are to walk as He walked.   That is why grace is so important, Not to cover us when we do things we know are not right but to cover us when we as you put it stumble.  Thank you Jesus for Your grace and forgiveness.

[Guest shiloh357]

⁹ Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

In the Greek the phrase "doth not commit sin" is a word that means that we don't  habitually practice sin.    It doesn't mean that we don't stumble in a sincere attempt to serve the Lord.   It means that we do not make sin our way of life. 

[Guest]

So I can assume that those of you who never sin never confess, no longer need the Lord's forgiveness, don't need the Lord's mercy and grace because you have become perfect in your own eyes? Wow! I wish I could be like you. But, I'm not because I don't think that I am perfect. I still get mad sometimes. I sometimes see good looking, sexy people and wonder, watch a violent movie and enjoy it. Still, sin is not my master. I am free from the spiritual consequences of sin - spiritual death - by I still sin from time to time. Just as King David prayed for forgiveness for the sins he was not even aware that he had committed, so do I. But, since you are perfect in your own mind, you don't need to, right? You deceive yourself.

[Spock]

So I can assume that those of you who never sin never confess, no longer need the Lord's forgiveness, don't need the Lord's mercy and grace because you have become perfect in your own eyes? Wow! I wish I could be like you. But, I'm not because I don't think that I am perfect. I still get mad sometimes. I sometimes see good looking, sexy people and wonder, watch a violent movie and enjoy it. Still, sin is not my master. I am free from the spiritual consequences of sin - spiritual death - by I still sin from time to time. Just as King David prayed for forgiveness for the sins he was not even aware that he had committed, so do I. But, since you are perfect in your own mind, you don't need to, right? You deceive yourself.

"Still see sexy women and wonder......." (Gotta keep you away from my wife.)

Pluck your eyes out son!!!!!!!

Lol

[Spock]

⁹ Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

In the Greek the phrase "doth not commit sin" is a word that means that we don't  habitually practice sin.    It doesn't mean that we don't stumble in a sincere attempt to serve the Lord.   It means that we do not make sin our way of life.

As much as this kills me to say it, THIS IS GOLDEN!!!!!!!

[Jesus Christ Driven]

²² For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

²³ But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

²⁴ Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

²⁵ For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

²⁶ The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

²⁷ For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

²⁸ And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

²⁹ Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

³⁰ And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

³¹ I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

³² If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

³³ Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

³⁴ Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Jesus Christ Driven

[Montana Marv]

Driven

 

Those who sin all die.  Paul died, all the Apostles died.  The wages of sin is death.  Our natural bodies will die.  There is no one righteous,  not even one; Rom 3:7.

 

Rom 3:9 - What shall we conclude then?  Are we any better?  Not at all,  We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.

 

The closer one gets to the light, the more imperfections they see in themselves.  If one says they can maintain a sinless nature, they are a liar and the truth is not in them.  The Mormon cult doctrine is one where they teach they do not sin by obeying the commandments, Yet they live in sin because they do not know the true Jewish Christ .  They believe in the Mormon Jesus and the Mormon Elohim. 

 

Driven are you a Mormon?

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Joshua-777]

 

⁹ Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

In the Greek the phrase "doth not commit sin" is a word that means that we don't  habitually practice sin.    It doesn't mean that we don't stumble in a sincere attempt to serve the Lord.   It means that we do not make sin our way of life. 

 

Can you give a reference to that? I don't understand greek that much, but looking it up in strongs, I don't see that.

Does not

οὐ

ou

oo

Also οὐκ ouk ook used before a vowel and οὐχ ouch ookh before an aspirate.

A primary word; the absolutely negative (compare G3361) adverb; no or not: - + long, nay, neither, never, no (X man), none, [can-] not, + nothing, + special, un ([-worthy]), when, + without, + yet but. See also G3364, G3372.

Commit has a wide meaning

G4160

ποιέω

poieō

poy-eh'-o

Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do (in a very wide application, more or less direct): - abide, + agree, appoint, X avenge, + band together, be, bear, + bewray, bring (forth), cast out, cause, commit, + content, continue, deal, + without any delay, (would) do (-ing), execute, exercise, fulfil, gain, give, have, hold, X journeying, keep, + lay wait, + lighten the ship, make, X mean, + none of these things move me, observe, ordain, perform, provide, + have purged, purpose, put, + raising up, X secure, shew, X shoot out, spend, take, tarry, + transgress the law, work, yield. Compare G4238.

 

Sin

G266

ἁμαρτία

hamartia

ham-ar-tee'-ah

From G264; sin (properly abstract): - offence, sin (-ful).

 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

⁹ Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

In the Greek the phrase "doth not commit sin" is a word that means that we don't  habitually practice sin.    It doesn't mean that we don't stumble in a sincere attempt to serve the Lord.   It means that we do not make sin our way of life. 

 

Can you give a reference to that? I don't understand greek that much, but looking it up in strongs, I don't see that.

Does not

οὐ

ou

oo

Also οὐκ ouk ook used before a vowel and οὐχ ouch ookh before an aspirate.

A primary word; the absolutely negative (compare G3361) adverb; no or not: - + long, nay, neither, never, no (X man), none, [can-] not, + nothing, + special, un ([-worthy]), when, + without, + yet but. See also G3364, G3372.

Commit has a wide meaning

G4160

ποιέω

poieō

poy-eh'-o

Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do (in a very wide application, more or less direct): - abide, + agree, appoint, X avenge, + band together, be, bear, + bewray, bring (forth), cast out, cause, commit, + content, continue, deal, + without any delay, (would) do (-ing), execute, exercise, fulfil, gain, give, have, hold, X journeying, keep, + lay wait, + lighten the ship, make, X mean, + none of these things move me, observe, ordain, perform, provide, + have purged, purpose, put, + raising up, X secure, shew, X shoot out, spend, take, tarry, + transgress the law, work, yield. Compare G4238.

 

Sin

G266

ἁμαρτία

hamartia

ham-ar-tee'-ah

From G264; sin (properly abstract): - offence, sin (-ful).

 

 

With all due respect Joshua, Strong's Dictionary  doesn't qualify as "looking up the Greek."    Strongs is an exhaustive work, not an analytical work and so he simply gives you all of the possible meanings of a word, without giving you any information as to which meaning applies to which passage of Scripture.   So as a stand alone reference it won't do you much good.  Word usage is more important than a word's dictionary or lexical definition.

 

According to AT Robertson:

"(hamartian ou poiei). Linear present active indicative as in 1Jn. 3:4 like hamartanei in 1Jn. 3:8. The child of God does not have the habit of sin."

 

The New American Standard Bible, which is the most accurate English translation from the Greek and Hebrew, renders the verse:

 

 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (I Jn 3:9)

 

The English Standard version reads;

 

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 1Jn 3:9

 

Further evidence that this verse doesn't mean that if you are a Christian you will NEVER commit another single sin, is that we find sin in the New Testament being committed by Paul when he harbored unforgiveness toward John Mark, and when Peter and Barnabas joined the Judaizers' heresy for a temporary time. 

 

John in his first epistle isn't saying that if you are a Christian you will never, ever sin, not a single time, the rest of your life.   The reason John wrote his epistles was due to the growing presence of gnostics in the churches at that time.  They were attempting to masquarade as Christians while leading people astray with false teachings. 

 

John’s purpose in writing this epistle was to show how the churches could recognize the false believers from those who were truly following the Lord.   In this passage in Chapter three, he is telling us that that those who continue to live habitually in sin are not born of God.   Their testimony is not true because they don't live transformed lives.

 

As a Christian,  I will not seek opportunities to sin.  I will not live a lifestyle that isn’t pleasing to the Lord.  That doesn’t mean that I won’t stumble.  That’s the whole point behind needing God’s grace everyday.   If grace is only there when we don’t mess up, what good is it?   It's like a car insurance policy that only covers you when you don't have an accident.   It would be a worthless policy.  

 

Grace isn’t for the people who never sin, who never mess up.   Grace is for the rest of us.  Grace is there to say, “I forgive you,”   and picks us up and puts us back on the horse.

 

The problem is further exacerbated by the fear of never really knowing if you are saved or not, if your works are held up as the barometer for salvation.   If I am running from the notion that never sinning, even once is the standard for living, then you would never know if you are saved because sin comes in two forms.  You sin by what doing what you should not do, and you  also sin by not doing what you should do.   So never knowing if you have just committed a sin by not doing something that you should have done, always second guessing your actions and choices would be paralyzing.   Your salvation would be completely reliant on YOU doing the right things at all times in order to convince yourself you are a true Christian.

 

But thanks be to God, my works are not the barometer for my salvation.   I KNOW I am saved because I have the Holy Spirit living within me who witnesses to my spirit that I am a child of God (Rom. 8:17) and I am also sealed and kept by the Holy Spirit until the final day (Eph. 1:13-14)  

 

John says this, as well:

 

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

(1Jn 5:11-13)

 

So according to John I can KNOW I am saved, not because I never, ever commit a single sin, but because I have believed on the Name of the Son of God.

 

My salvation is based on the finished work of Jesus on the cross, not because I live perfectly.  The evidence of my salvation is the out working of his truth in my life, not because I am perfect on every point.  

[Guest]

Amen! But you can never convince a person who believes that they are perfect and without fault in their own eyes that they are wrong. At least by now, in this thread and for those who have read all the posts in it, most have seen the truth that we all continue to sin, not continually or willfully, but that until we are with the Lord we still have our sinful nature.