The Church of Laodicea

[Guest mrknickknack]

I hope this helps... this is from the Nelson study guide footnotes ... The Laodicean church was spirutually self-deluded. Because the church was wealthy it assumed that it had need of nothing, when in actuality it was spiritually impoverished. The church believed that because it had expensive garments it was well-clothed, when it was really spiritually naked. It believed that physical sight indicated the ability to see spiritually, when it was acually blind to spiritual realities. Fortunately Christ provides spirtual gold, heavenly white garments and healing eye salve to all who repent.

[tsth]

3. Again! The reference is to the garments of salvation in Isaiah. It is not that the Laodiceans weren't saved but that they had taken off the garments of their salvation. Salvation is not lost but is rejected or trampled under foot according to Hebrews 10 by some Christians. This is the peril of falling away.

I will rejoice greatly in the LORD,My soul will exult in my God; For He has clothed me with garments of salvation, He has wrapped me with a robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks himself with a garland,And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels. Isaiah 61:10

As I read the above, I was reminded of this message that God gave to Jeremiah with regard to the ruined linen belt, it sounded much like what you are stating above, as linen signifies "righteousness":

Jeremiah 13: This is what the Lord said to me: "Go and buy a linen belt and put it around your waist, but do not let it touch water." 2 So I bought a belt, as the Lord directed, and put it around my waist. 3 Then the word of the Lord came to me a second time: 4 "Take the belt you bought and are wearing around your waist, and go now to Perath and hide it there in a crevice in the rocks." 5 So I went and hid it at Perath, as the Lord told me. 6 Many days later the Lord said to me, "Go now to Perath and get the belt I told you to hide there." 7 So I went to Perath and dug up the belt and took it from the place where I had hidden it, but now it was ruined and completely useless. 8 Then the word of the Lord came to me: 9 "This is what the Lord says: 'In the same way I will ruin the pride of Judah and the great pride of Jerusalem. 10 These wicked people, who refuse to listen to my words, who follow the stubbornness of their hearts and go after other gods to serve and worship them, will be like this belt--completely useless!

4. Eye salve so you may see?

Because of the backslidden condition of Laodicea they are unable to understand the scriptures. Remember the foolish virgins? They needed oil in their lamps to see in the coming darkness of the night. The night is something often used in scripture to typify the Great Tribulation - the Time of Jacob's Trouble. Different liquids typify the Holy Spirit in the different aspects of His ministry such as water, oil, wine, etc. In this case Jesus is using something that was well known in that day as a remedy for the eyes. Remember each church was threatened to repent or have the lampstand removed which is yet another reference to the presence of the Holy Spirit.

I'm pressed for time or I'd further expound the subject. This is most enjoyable... I need to get out of the debates and join the bible studies.

I think it's even worse than the virgins, because at least it wasn't the blind leading the blind?

And then you have those then, and those today, who are still more focused upon the oath of "money" made on the alter, rather than the oath to follow Jesus made on the alter, there's nothing new, just a different generation, but the same antics:

Matthew 15:14

Leave them; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

Matthew 23:16

"Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'

Mt 23:17

You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?

Mt 23:19

You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?

(But, that's a WHOLE other topic in itself, I guess.)

In His Love,

Suzanne

[wingnut]

1. What is the "gold" and how does one buy it?

2. What is the refining in the fire mean?

3. White garments?

4. Eye Salve?

In His Love,

Suzanne

Hi Suzanne

All of the things mentione in your question are figures of speech - viz metaphor. The Laodiceans represent an end-time attitude of ho-hum Christianity. They are admonished to buy spiritual gold (refined in the fire - an allusion to tribulation), white garments (another allusion to martyrdom and purification in fire) and "eye-salve" a metaphor for spiritual eye-opening - again which will happen in tribulation. The Laodiceans are clearly IMHO earmarked for Great Tribulation because of their take-it-or-leave-it attitude to Christ. Here is an exerpt from a book which I have written on Revelation.

"14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;... this is the last group described... These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness the beginning of the creation of God;... The Greek word for "witness" used here is "martyr". "The beginning of the creation of God" means that Christ is the originator of the creation of God. He is the Creator of the creation of God. Scripture tells us in John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made... Christ is Author and Chief over the creation of God.

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot... What a disappointment. Christ would have preferred that they were either hot or cold. He cannot stand the neither-here-nor-there, compromising, wishy-washy attitude which is implied by being "lukewarm"...

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,... meaning that today I wake up feeling a little more zealous towards God, but tomorrow not. This is not a pillar. How could this person be a ruler? I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and... The fact that someone says that they are spiritually rich, means nothing. If Christ however affirms that we are spiritually rich, then and only then, does it mean something. Christ "vomits" these out of his mouth.

These say they ...have need of nothing;.... But this is what Christ says...and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:...

All of these of course, are analogies. They are not literally naked or blind. These are spiritual analogies. It is AS IF these are naked. They are exposed - they are a laughing stock. They are miserable and pitiable. They are wretched. They are not to be envied by the angels of God or by anyone who knows the truth.

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed,... When you read "tried in the fire" and "white raiment", a bell should ring in your mind. When Christ addresses this group as "I am the faithful and true martyr" - we get the hint that this group is to be woken up by trial and tribulation.

...and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see... "Wake up! See!" Christ is imploring this group. It is very hard for the blind to see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten:... Again an allusion to Christ punishing them... be zealous therefore, and repent..... How much easier it is to just repent than to be rebuked and chastened.

20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock:... Now does that not sound like an end-time analogy? ...if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me..... This could be referring to the marriage supper. It could also refer to the coronation supper. Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day,... John was present on the coronation day. A special form of the Greek word "Lord" is being used here, which, in Greek, means "the imperial day" or "the coronation day". This is the day Christ receives all power, and is revealed in all his glory.

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame,... How did Christ overcome? Through his death. ...and am set down with my Father in his throne.... We are talking about a group of people who are going to be martyred. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

I hope this helps some

[Pilgrim7]

The Laodicean church applies to the general state of denominational christianity. God gives those who don't love the truth and obey it over to the delusion that they love, that they are rich in spiritual goods because they 'believe in Jesus', but they deny much of the truth of God for they don't love the truth and obey it, but want to believe the lie that they are OK anyway. They are not children of God, not saved, not under the blood and have nothing that the true believer receives as a free gift from the indwelling of Jesus through the Spirit.

2th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity does already work..............

2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Those who do not 'repent', a dirty word to Laodiceans for they will not believe they need to repent, will be spewed out of the mouth of God, given over to their delusion of 'thinking' they are christian, and gathered with the tares for the burning. This message is a warning and a promise. All who do not repent and be converted, God promises to spew them out and appoint them their portion in the 'lake of fire'.

Yet what is the response of the majority of denominational christianity, how dare you say such a thing, don't you know that we are 'rich and increased with spiritual goods'. We 'believe in Jesus', we have the 'free gift' of salvation, we don't need to 'buy' anything, we are God's 'favorite people'. He needs us because we are doing such a wonderful job for Him. We are the 'spiritual sons' of Abraham, yet Christ still says, 'God is able to raise up these stones' to be children of Abraham, which He is now doing.

His fan is in His hand and He will purge His threshing floor. He is not dependent on large denominations, He turned the world upside down with 12 dedicated disciples, and He will do the same today. He will have a people who listen to Him, believe His word as it reads with the leading of the Holy Spirit and who realize that it applies to them without having to twist and spin it as a politician so that it offends no one and all can snooze in 'peace and safety', when there is none.

God Bless,

Dennis

[tsth]

Yet what is the response of the majority of denominational christianity, how dare you say such a thing, don't you know that we are 'rich and increased with spiritual goods'. We 'believe in Jesus', we have the 'free gift' of salvation, we don't need to 'buy' anything, we are God's 'favorite people'. He needs us because we are doing such a wonderful job for Him. We are the 'spiritual sons' of Abraham, yet Christ still says, 'God is able to raise up these stones' to be children of Abraham, which He is now doing.

His fan is in His hand and He will purge His threshing floor. He is not dependent on large denominations, He turned the world upside down with 12 dedicated disciples, and He will do the same today. He will have a people who listen to Him, believe His word as it reads with the leading of the Holy Spirit and who realize that it applies to them without having to twist and spin it as a politician so that it offends no one and all can snooze in 'peace and safety', when there is none.

God Bless,

Dennis

Dear Dennis,

I think the above is what is SO troubling about the church-age of today. It is that you cannot see much difference between the believer and the lost/world.

There is no life "set-apart/different" in most of today's believers, thus you cannot tell the difference. To merely claim the Name of Christ Jesus, is not salvation.......it is to LIVE FOR HIM, because you believe Him and His Words. The result should be lives set apart and different, thus not walking in the same ways of the world. Where are the distinctions?

Malachi 3:17 "They will be mine," says the Lord Almighty, "in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. 18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Pilgrim7]

Suzanne,

There are many who draw near to God with the lips, while their hearts are far from Him. They offer Him praise in word and song, yet do not have the 'new heart' in which the Spirit of holiness and righteousness dwells, leading into all holiness and righteousness.

1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed (Jesus is the seed who dwells in the heart of the believer according to Paul) remains in him: and he cannot sin (as long as Jesus dwells there for Jesus does not lead into sin, but provides a way of escape), because he is born of God.

3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

2Cor 7:1 Having therefore these promises (Jesus and the Word dwelling in the heart and will), dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

This is what the real christians do. They live by 'every word that proceeds from the mouth of God', most of which are 'hard sayings' to the 'lukewarm', for they don't love the Word of God. If one does not love the 'written word of God', then they don't love the 'living Word of God', Jesus. They may say that they love Him, but their actions, which are the product of the heart, say otherwise.

God is no respecter of persons. He treats all the same, Jew or Gentile. All are lost, and all must be saved in the same way and use their will to overcome sin and live righteously and Godly in this present world. He has no discount plan for the indolent and lukewarm.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God (Jesus) who brings salvation has appeared to all men,

2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly (with self control), righteously, and godly, in this present world; (to deny this teaching of Jesus is to deny Jesus Himself and mean that one followed another christ, a false christ, an anti-christ)

2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; (only these believers, the true wheat, are looking for Jesus return)

Since the beginning of sin in the Garden, God has had to work in the 'remnant' mode. He starts a work, and within a short period of time Satan has taken over the work and God has to work through a 'remnant', those who love Him with all the heart, mind, soul and strength as evidenced in their faithfulness and obedience. In the beginning all were His subjects, yet most chose to twist his word and requirements until God could find only a 'remnant', (8) souls to save. Yet all thought that they were still children of God and that they worshiped the true God. It is amazing, that you will never find anyone who will say that they worship a 'false God'. Such is the deceptive power of Satan in impersonating God.

Thus has been the story all throughout history. God starts a work, Satan takes over the leadership and God works through the 'Remnant who obey Him. It has always been the organized religious leaders who have led the people away from God, all the while thinking that they were following Him. They twist and spin the word of God, omiting any of the scriptures that speak of the 'duty of the believer', and thus make it palatable for the 'unconverted', thus the reason that there is no difference between the 'nominal christian' and the 'worldling' that you mentioned.

And now, in the midst of this last apostacy, God is still working through a 'Remnant', who 'keep the Commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus'. To reject God's commandments is to reject God's word. To reject God's word is to reject Jesus the 'living Word'. To reject Jesus is to reject Salvation all the while claiming to be saved. All this is done while claiming to love God and Jesus whom He sent and to be His followers. The essence of the delusion is the fact that most have been convinced that they are saved, when Jesus says, 'I never knew you'.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven (this will of God includes His Commandments, especially the Ten Commandments).

7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? (here is a religious group of 'christians' who are sure that they are working for God)

7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. (what is the iniquity that they work, they keep not the commandments of God, thus their faith is a dead faith, not having the corresponding works of obedience, not a faith that works the works of God by love)Mt 7:24 Therefore whosoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Ps 119:115 Depart from me, you evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God.

God's children keep His word, especially His Commandments. This is the problem of sin, that people won't keep God's commandments, but break them. It is not to be such with God's faithful children.

God bless,

Dennis

[Eddie B]

Lots of good comments on this topic.

Jesus said that during the church age this would happen,apostasy was in the true church then, but in each church there were the overcomers(the remnant) then and it is still true today.

What was it that the overcomers had to overcome? The world , the flesh and the devil to be sure. But in the context it is written they had to overcome the false teachers, false doctrines, false Christians etc.(religion,legalism,denominationalism,etc.) that we have to deal with today in the local churches, the tares and the wheat. The visable church today is being prepared by the devil for the final end.But the invisable church ,the overcomers are being prepared by God to his end plan.

The problem for christians today is to as it says in these verses, he that has a spiritual ear to hear can hear.

Notice the glorious promises at the end of each of these statements God has for us, his children, in the mist of this apostasy we have to live with and fight against.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

And who are the overcomers? Those who are in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than CONQUERORS through him that loved us.

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Eddie B

[Guest forgiven77z]

Just a little fact about Laodicea....This church did not survive time. The two churches that Christ did not say anything bad about stood the test of time. There are Churches and Christian people around those areas.

Also...The Church is being judged now, acording to scripture, by trials which I think is the same as fire. Christ said he was going to baptise with fire and the Holy Spirit. He is now at the right hand of God with power and authority....So he is in control of the trials or fire......He is not the cause of hard times though....He is just making good from bad.....The bad being things that happen to us because of the fall.

Edited September 4, 2007 by forgiven77z