The rapture theory: True or false?

[Izzel]

Hi guys, what I read in the link am about to show you will shock you concerning the author's view of the rapture. http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/rapture-theory-false.html.

Pls check the link and let me know what you all think.

The Lord Jesus Christ is coming back as a thief in the night

  

   The New Testament has many passages that compare the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ with the unexpected house break-in of the thief at night.  Those who teach the Secret Rapture say the Lord Jesus Christ will come as a thief in the night to snatch away true believers while others are asleep. 

 

Matthew 24:42-43   Our Lord said, “Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.  But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken in.”    These verses say nothing about the secret rapture, but only indicate Jesus will return like the thief who would come at an unknown and unexpected time.  The warning is for Christians to be ready at all times.

 

   1 Thessalonians 5:2   The apostle Paul wrote: “For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.” This verse does not mean that believers would be raptured because if you read two verses below Paul gave the explanation.  “But you, brethren, are not in darkness so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.” (1 Thes. 5:4) It says nothing about a secret rapture.  Again, the message here is NOT that Jesus' coming will be secret, but that it will occur at a time when most will not expect it, therefore we must WATCH!

 

2 Peter 3:10   Here is a scriptural verse that completely destroys the secret rapture theory.  “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.”  How can there be a secret rapture when “the heavens will pass away with a great noise”?

 

Revelation 3:3   The Lord Jesus Christ said: “Remember therefore how you have received and heard:  hold fast and repent.  Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.”       There is nothing in this verse that even vaguely suggests that Christians will be raptured secretly.  Here is an instruction for them to watch because nobody knows when Jesus will be returning.

 

[Montana Marv]

There are more than one "Day of the Lord"

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Donibm]

Kingdom,

 

Be inspired by the TRUTH.

 

Don't make this about me friend.  :-)

 

 

Love Gods Word.

 

Know His character.

 

Discern right from what is false.

 

 

That is all I really want out of the believers in this thread. 

 

That the weak would grow.

 

That the carnal would cast off their rebellion.

 

That the seekers would find.

 

That the opponents and distorters of Gods Word would be put down.

 

... that people will stop trying to understand God, and seek the UNDERSTANDING of God.  See things as HE does.

 

 

I believe that when we do ... we would see that He is not on His throne smiling, but angry.   Yes, even towards His own children.  But His tender mercies subdue His wrath.  The Lamb of God stays His mighty hand, and will deliver us from evil.  For "when I see the BLOOD, My wrath will pass over thee."

 

It's ALL about Him.

 

... and I have no desire to distort the Word of God.  I try to be very careful with it.

[Guest]

All

 

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Revelation 1:5

 

About

 

And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:6

 

The LORD Jesus

 

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7

 

~

 

I believe that when we do ... we would see that He is not on His throne smiling, but angry.   Yes, even towards His own children.  But His tender mercies subdue His wrath.  The Lamb of God stays His mighty hand, and will deliver us from evil.  For "when I see the BLOOD, My wrath will pass over thee."

 

It's ALL about Him.

 

... and I have no desire to distort the Word of God.  I try to be very careful with it.

 

 

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

 

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

 

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 2:23-28

 

 

To Know God

 

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

 

Is To Love

 

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

 

Him

 

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Romans 8:15

[kingdomwitness]

Sure! Donibm

[Donibm]

All

 

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Revelation 1:5

 

About

 

And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:6

 

The LORD Jesus

 

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7

 

~

 

I believe that when we do ... we would see that He is not on His throne smiling, but angry.   Yes, even towards His own children.  But His tender mercies subdue His wrath.  The Lamb of God stays His mighty hand, and will deliver us from evil.  For "when I see the BLOOD, My wrath will pass over thee."

 

It's ALL about Him.

 

... and I have no desire to distort the Word of God.  I try to be very careful with it.

 

 

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

 

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

 

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 2:23-28

 

 

To Know God

 

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

 

Is To Love

 

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

 

Him

 

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Romans 8:15

 

 

Yes!  That's the ticket!

 

It's ALL about Jesus.

[ARGOSY]

Brother Argosy,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I do not see as you do.

First, let's look at 1 thess 5:

1Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

4But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. 7For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. 11Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

Spock's thoughts: the day of The Lord will come like a thief during peaceful times. There is no peace during the great trib. Honestly, this one thing should end any conversation about a post trib rapture.

Paul even said you do NOT EVEN NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THESE DATES. Why? Because you won't be here before it begins. we do not belong to the night, for God did not appoint us to suffer wrath. I believe the wrath he is referencing here is the day of The Lord judgment. Comfort yourself with these words. What words? You won't be here during that because you don't belong to the darkness.

Now let's look at 1 thess 4:

13Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Spock's thoughts: this coming of The Lord is the rapture, not second coming. Jesus is telling these church saints to be encouraged LOOKING FOR HIM, NOT FOR ANTICHRIST. my post trib brothers are looking for antichrist first, not Christ. Tsk tsk. No comfort in that. This trumpet call is not related to the rev 8 trumpets and there is nothing that says it has to be. You need to study Jewish literature to get the meaning on this. Notice, the DEAD IN CHRIST (church age saints, not OT BELIEVERS) will rise first. Then the living believers go up next. ENCOURAGE ONE ANOTHER WITH THESE WORDS- what kind of encouragement would it be if all these people had to wait for the great trib with all the seal, trumpet, and bowl judgments to look forward to? Answer-none.

In fact, many trib saints will be slaughtered because they will hold on to their belief in Jesus and will not take the mark of the beast. Does that sound like something to be encouraged by? Do you think watching your children or loved ones being killed is encouraging?

One more thing my friend-God rescued Noah, did he not, before judgment? God rescued Lot before judgment, did he not? Just like them will he not do the same for the church? Please read rev 2 and 3 again. You may find pearls of wisdom in these admonition so to the 7 CHURCHES., especially to the church of Philadelphia. Good luck bro.

Spock watching and waiting for CHRIST, NOT FOR ANTICHRIST

Hey spock, sorry man...been away for a while. In response

PEACE: The tribulation is a time of peace for the Middle East and its also the great tribulation. Israel is at political peace, yet all over the world there are disasters and Christians are persecuted. 3 factors make this "great tribulation", the disasters and the persecutions and the great war that ends the peaceful period. I have already put forward strong arguments in the Ezekiel 39 thread that associate the period of sinful peace of Ezekiel 39 with the period just before the day of the Lord.

Looking for Jesus:

Jesus gave us warnings of the signs that precede his second coming. To be so looking forward to Jesus that the preceding signs become important to us, is exactly what we should be doing as Christians.

Paul himself said the appearance of the man of sin will precede our gathering to Him:

2 Thess 2: Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us (whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter) asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Yes I'm watching for the antichrist. When I see the antichrist I will be very excited because I know Jesus will be coming soon. Only a twisted person would assume I'm more excited about the antichrist than Jesus. As quoted above , I interpret it asthe antichrist comes first, and its entirely possible that my interpretation of the above wording is more accurate than yours. Its pretty simple wording, pretty easy to understand if you haven't got a preconceived idea that would influence a re-interpretation of basic wording. It seems to be associating the day of the Lord and our gathering and the second coming as one day......"that day". The verses above seem to be indicating that the revealing of the antichrist comes BEFORE our gathering. I would like to hear your version, just so neutral parties can compare for themselves the actual words of the bible to how you interpret the actual words of the bible.

[Trumpet cry]

 

Actually the writer/teacher/whoever it is, makes some very valid, biblically backed points regarding the false manmade doctrine of a rapture or multiple raptures occurring before the second coming of Jesus Christ. What about Matthew 13:24-30 for instance? How do you deny the fact that Jesus taught that the wheat and tares were to "grow together until the harvest"? My problem with believing in the rapture theories is in wrapping my mind around the concept of a God who would give His conditions for eternal life only to change or annul them by giving a knowing, unrepentant sinner a second (or third, or more) chance to accept those conditions once the time allowed has passed. Plus the fact that there is no biblical basis for such belief. The writer brings out other valid, biblical truth, but seems to wander off track in other areas. This, however cannot change what is true from God's Word.

 

 

=============================================================================================

 

 

Actually the writer/teacher/whoever it is, makes some very valid, biblically backed points regarding the false manmade doctrine of a rapture

 

Who are you referring to?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am referring to the writer in the opening poster's link:

kingdomwitness, on 18 Feb 2014 - 2:18 PM, said:

Hi guys, what I read in the link am about to show you will shock you concerning the author's view of the rapture. http://www.end-times...eory-false.html.

Pls check the link and let me know what you all think.

 

Did you read it?

Edited March 20, 2014 by Trumpet cry

[Enoch2021]

 

 

Actually the writer/teacher/whoever it is, makes some very valid, biblically backed points regarding the false manmade doctrine of a rapture or multiple raptures occurring before the second coming of Jesus Christ. What about Matthew 13:24-30 for instance? How do you deny the fact that Jesus taught that the wheat and tares were to "grow together until the harvest"? My problem with believing in the rapture theories is in wrapping my mind around the concept of a God who would give His conditions for eternal life only to change or annul them by giving a knowing, unrepentant sinner a second (or third, or more) chance to accept those conditions once the time allowed has passed. Plus the fact that there is no biblical basis for such belief. The writer brings out other valid, biblical truth, but seems to wander off track in other areas. This, however cannot change what is true from God's Word.

 

 

=============================================================================================

 

 

Actually the writer/teacher/whoever it is, makes some very valid, biblically backed points regarding the false manmade doctrine of a rapture

 

Who are you referring to?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am referring to the writer in the opening poster's link:

kingdomwitness, on 18 Feb 2014 - 2:18 PM, said:

Hi guys, what I read in the link am about to show you will shock you concerning the author's view of the rapture. http://www.end-times...eory-false.html.

Pls check the link and let me know what you all think.

 

Did you read it?

 

 

===================================================================================

 

Yes it makes some blunders.....

 

"If the rapture theory is a true Biblical teaching. Why was it not well known and popularized until the early 20th century?"

 

Relevance?

 

"The word "rapture" is not found anywhere in the Bible"

 

It's in the Latin Vulgate

 

Most of his proofs come from Parables. 

 

I also found more than a few Non-Sequitur's

 

Who's the Author of this Article?

[Trumpet cry]

 

Actually the writer/teacher/whoever it is, makes some very valid, biblically backed points regarding the false manmade doctrine of a rapture or multiple raptures occurring before the second coming of Jesus Christ. What about Matthew 13:24-30 for instance? How do you deny the fact that Jesus taught that the wheat and tares were to "grow together until the harvest"? My problem with believing in the rapture theories is in wrapping my mind around the concept of a God who would give His conditions for eternal life only to change or annul them by giving a knowing, unrepentant sinner a second (or third, or more) chance to accept those conditions once the time allowed has passed. Plus the fact that there is no biblical basis for such belief. The writer brings out other valid, biblical truth, but seems to wander off track in other areas. This, however cannot change what is true from God's Word.

 

 

=============================================================================================

 

 

 

Does this look man-made to you....

 

(1 Thessalonians 4:17) "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

 

 

 

1Thessalonians 4:16-17  "For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

 

This scripture speaks of the return of Christ Jesus for Final Judgment, to judge the living and the dead and tells exactly how it will happen. It can be called a rapture if you want, but it is the ONLY rapture to come.

 

How do you deny the fact that Jesus taught that the wheat and tares were to "grow together until the harvest"?

 

Nobody here does. We're concerned with the "Harvest" Specifically

 

Who is "nobody here" ? And Who are "We" ? Surely you do not represent everyone, one only has to read the various posts to see that. Please don't distort my post, I wasn't responding directly to you, I was only responding with my thoughts on the opening poster's link, like he asked; however, you have every right to respond to my post, just don't make it sound like it's "me" against "all of you".

 

I'm sure that you have a valid point with the rest of the scripture that you posted and other comments, but to me, it sounds like random scripture pieced together to prove a point that I disagree with and can't even begin to comprehend how it pertains to a rapture before Christ's return. More importantly, I believe that we are now in great tribulation, from the time of the Cross to the time Christ returns. If one doesn't believe this, they can just read "Voice of the Martyrs" or of the persection that many Christians of today are facing and have faced since the Cross of Jesus Christ. No, I do not believe that there will be a "rapture" (apart from Christ's return and final judgment) that will come and carry us all to safety while others are "left behind" to suffer until they come to terms with God. Thank you for your well meant response, it encourages me to "sharpen my sword", which admittedly I need to do. God Bless

Edited March 20, 2014 by Trumpet cry