Enoch2021 Posted March 1, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted March 1, 2014 My chief point in deleted posts was that the 7 days of Genesis followed a literary genre which we might call "cosmological liturgy". temples in the ancient near east were inaugurated by a 7 day ceremony. Genesis (as I see it) uses this cultural element to claim earth as God's temple. I really have little Biblical interest in the sciences. If I reject Genesis as a pure historical narrative (like that of Chronicles or Kings or other uncontested histories) it is ultimately because my studies have led me to other conclusions. Perhaps "natural oddities" set me off on the search; but it was not these oddities that confirmed my present position. But I should say no more; there are eyes and ears out there clb --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Probably the wisest part of your post ..... certainly something I personally could agree with ============================================================================================================= Which Part? The Whole thing? temples in the ancient near east were inaugurated by a 7 day ceremony. Genesis (as I see it) uses this cultural element to claim earth as God's temple. SO WHAT!!!!! What's the Coherent and Logical Connection? Is the claim GOD USED "As TEMPLATE" for Genesis (Rationale?? Please).... the Temples of the Ancient Near East ????? !!!!!!!!!! Have we stepped off into the Twilight Zone? This is Preposterous!!!!!!!!!! WHAT CAME FIRST: 1. GOD'S WORD 2. Temples of the Ancient Near East ????? 7 days of Genesis followed The 7 Days of Genesis didn't follow anything, EXCEPT .....(Genesis 1:1) "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." I see what's going on here.......This goes back to "WHO IS THE AUTHOR" GOD or Moses (some think it's others ) Moses just penned what GOD TOLD HIM TO WRITE. OR He's saying, Moses (Steeped in near east traditions) somehow contorted the WORD OF GOD to fit these "traditions" so the Hebrew's could understand it. I can't believe I just wrote that!!!!! If I reject Genesis as a pure historical narrative (like that of Chronicles or Kings or other uncontested histories) it is ultimately because my studies have led me to other conclusions. Enoch 2021 translation: The Scientists have told me that the Earth and Universe is OLD; therefore, Genesis can't be a Historical Narrative. Which by the way is a Logical Fallacy: Affirming The Consequent With the Concept in TOTO, Confirmed by..... Perhaps "natural oddities" set me off on the search; Basically using "science" as a Hermeneutic Filter for the WORD of GOD That just about says it all...Have I missed anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnochBethany Posted March 1, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 99 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 1, 2014 I was under the impression that God inspired men to write the Bible, and concerning the opening chapters of Genesis, those men just might have been Sumerian, or Akkadian. Ah, the term "inspired," inspiration." It is a misnomer used for so long that we are stuck with it. "Inspired" is a faulty translation of theopneustos in 1 Tim 3:16: πᾶσα γραφὴ θεόπνευστος = all scripture (is) inspired by God, better: all scripture is God-breathed. θε = God (stem, theos) ό = connecting vowel πνευ- = breath (σ)τος = having been X-ed, verbal adjective There is no "in" in the term translated "inspired." The idea is expired, breathed out. The picture is of God breathing out the material written. Thus, "inspiration" as a theological term, does not refer to men, but the written product, scripture. So, to speak of men being inspired is a misleading term. Of course men were used to pen the scripture; it is probable that in many cases a prophet dictated to a scribe who wrote it down (Tertius in Romans 16:22). Moses wrote Genesis. And much of what is in Genesis, only God could know. We can speculate about how God revealed it to Moses, about human sources of info that Moses had. But it is largely just speculation. 2 Pet 1:21 "For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-seeker Posted March 1, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 589 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/06/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 (edited) I see what's going on here.......This goes back to "WHO IS THE AUTHOR" GOD or Moses (some think it's others ) Moses just penned what GOD TOLD HIM TO WRITE. Yes Enoch, this is entirely what it gets back to. The nature of Inspiration. Everything between you and me can be put on pause until this is dealt with. My guess is you are one of the very few (I am not appealing to popularity) out there that believes Moses was just a secretary. We certainly have textual evidence of some things (the Decalogue) being dictated to him. But that does not mean the rest of the Pentateuch came about in the same way. Most (but probably not on this site) think that inspiration works less overtly for other parts of Scripture. The human author is not omitted from the process, nor reduced to nothing more than a pencil. His experiences and entire psychology are utilized by God. The Bible was not written in a vacuum; it spoke to a given people at a given time. It is not "timeless" or "cultural-less" (please don't put too much on "timeless"; obviously it is timeless in the sense that it was inspired by a timeless God). Exegesis for me involves reconstructing the author's culture as a background to the text. No, history (here meaning the process of reconstructing the "scene") is not a hard science--some call it a pseudo-science. But if a particular reconstruction begins to shed more and more light on confusing passages--if it answers more problems than raises them, then I think I am on the right track. I believe this true of all literature, including Scripture. Hence, during my studies for the past several years, I found myself saying more and more, "Wow, that is a very cool maneuver!" or "Ah, now I see why he/HE did that." I suppose one could put it this way (but I already know the response I will get) Scripture proved itself to be even more inspired than what I thought "inspired" meant. But perhaps I have been going about this all the wrong way. My central concern was never really to disprove YEC. Perhaps it need not even be to disprove 6/day. So I open a new question for 6/dayers. Why 6 days? Why not create it in 3 (after His divine nature) or one (according to Augustine) or a billion (according to OECs)? Are there theories out there held by 6/dayers? This is a legitimate question. clb P.S. how has my quoting been of late? Edited March 1, 2014 by ConnorLiamBrown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-seeker Posted March 1, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 589 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/06/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 But I should say no more; there are eyes and ears out there clb Probably the wisest part of your post ..... certainly something I personally could agree with What were you hoping to accomplish with that other than making yourself look like a jerk? Was it the spirit of Christ at work when you said that? Do you think Christ nodded from heaven towards you and said, "well done, good and faithful servant?" clb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted March 1, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,173 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,902 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted March 1, 2014 But perhaps I have been going about this all the wrong way. My central concern was never really to disprove YEC. Perhaps it need not even be to disprove 6/day. So I open a new question for 6/dayers. Why 6 days? Why not create it in 3 (after His divine nature) or one (according to Augustine) or a billion (according to OECs)? Are there theories out there held by 6/dayers? This is a legitimate question. clb P.S. how has my quoting been of late? much better than 2021's he has someone's post quoted with my name on it... As for the six days, I think we pretty much say that for it's in the Bible in places outside Genesis. If you are asking why God took six days, I'd say you'll most likely have to ask Him someday. The last time I put myself in Gods place many years ago I ended up introduced to the devil........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-seeker Posted March 1, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 589 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/06/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 Nice to make your cyber-acquaintance. Some questions occur to me: 1) Literary genre: How many ancient documents are there with such a genre (enough to establish that there is such a genre as "cosmological liturgy"? 2) Is there some indication that Gen 1 is liturgical? 3) Do we know what liturgies were used before 1500 BC? 4) How many temples in what eras, were inaugurated by a 7 day ceremony? What are the ancient sources to establish this? If there were 10,000 temples in the ancient near east, how would one know how the majority were inaugurated? What percent of them left contemporary records of their inaugurations so that a generalization might be made? The idea that Genesis is claiming the earth as God's temple is interesting. When the Lord wrote Genesis 1 did he put out of His mind Genesis 3? "If I reject Genesis as a pure historical narrative (like that of Chronicles or Kings or other uncontested histories) it is ultimately because my studies have led me to other conclusions. " pure? IMHO, mostly what we have in the Bible by way of history is a narrative with a theological interpretation or explanation, though a given occurrence recorded may (strangely?) leave it unexplained. Which ancient documents have led you to your conclusions? Have you studied the entire corpus of ancient Near Eastern documents? "Natural oddities" hum. I'm not sure to what you refer? Like a snake talking? Like the earth being tohu & bohu? Like creating a woman from Adam's rib? Before I answer any of these, I should know your temperament. I take it you think the burden of proof is on me; and that if I cannot demonstrate with something close to mathematical certainty that every single temple was celebrated or inaugurated with a 7 day ceremony, based on a corpus that would make English Literature feel small, then it’s all hogwash. Have I got your implied point? clb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted March 1, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,173 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,902 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted March 1, 2014 But I should say no more; there are eyes and ears out there clb Probably the wisest part of your post ..... certainly something I personally could agree with What were you hoping to accomplish with that other than making yourself look like a jerk? Was it the spirit of Christ at work when you said that? Do you think Christ nodded from heaven towards you and said, "well done, good and faithful servant?" clb to remind you that admins had asked you not to touch on those things.... and yes it was done as a faithful servant protecting some of the 200 or so guests that come by here every hour. When you tell me that your posts have been removed and you decide to just to a summery anyway...... I have the right to agree with you when you say that you should be quiet.... what's so wrong with agreeing with you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted March 1, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted March 1, 2014 =================================================================================================== Yes Enoch, this is entirely what it gets back to. The nature of Inspiration. Everything between you and me can be put on pause until this is dealt with. Yes Sir, I knew that along time ago....back to one of our first Interactions. You are not the only one, however....and was the Primary Reason I posted "GOD is THE AUTHOR" P.S. how has my quoting been of late? OUTSTANDING!! You have learned well Young Skywalker. LOL I'm trying a new technique (When Appropriate) of Deleting Everything Above, except the Addressee to make the posts a little more readable. Like this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted March 1, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted March 1, 2014 But perhaps I have been going about this all the wrong way. My central concern was never really to disprove YEC. Perhaps it need not even be to disprove 6/day. So I open a new question for 6/dayers. Why 6 days? Why not create it in 3 (after His divine nature) or one (according to Augustine) or a billion (according to OECs)? Are there theories out there held by 6/dayers? This is a legitimate question. clb P.S. how has my quoting been of late? much better than 2021's he has someone's post quoted with my name on it... As for the six days, I think we pretty much say that for it's in the Bible in places outside Genesis. If you are asking why God took six days, I'd say you'll most likely have to ask Him someday. The last time I put myself in Gods place many years ago I ended up introduced to the devil........ ========================================================================================= much better than 2021's he has someone's post quoted with my name on it... Sorry about that Other One .....I have a few bugs to overcome with my new technique. Consider Yourself a Beta-Test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted March 1, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted March 1, 2014 P.S. how has my quoting been of late? OUTSTANDING!! You have learned well Young Skywalker. LOL I'm trying a new technique (When Appropriate) of Deleting Everything Above, except the Addressee to make the posts a little more readable. Like this one ==================================================================================================== P.S. how has my quoting been of late? OUTSTANDING!! You have learned well Young Skywalker. LOL Oh and I forgot......$$$$$$$ ???? Please send to: Enoch 2021 Genesis is a Historical Narrative PO Box 777 The WORD, The Spoken Sentence 77777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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