PRE-TRIBBERS Please Explain

[rollinTHUNDER]

Just to be clear, Last trumpet= Rosh HashanahThe rapture will occur during the Jewish Festival of the Feast of the Trumpets.Both the 1 Corinthians and 1 Thess passages describe the rapture preceded by this "last" trumpet call.

I believe that is correct, just as the first 4 spring feasts were fulfilled by Christ in the first century, so will the 3 final feasts be fulfilled upon His return, beginning with Rosh Hashanah (feast of trumpets). These are not similar trumpets. The last trump is the final blast of 100, which begins when the first sliver of the new moon is sighted, which also begins the seventh month of the Hebrew calendar (Tishri).I do not believe the seventh trumpet can possibly be the rapture, because it is part of god's wrath. Both the rapture and martyr's will be gone before this, as God will not avenge the martyr's blood until all have been killed (Rev. 6:9-11).Cheers

Hey thunder,I'm going to reread your book this spring break for me, but it don't recall you analyzing Rev 6 very much -the four horsemen of the apocalypse.

I hope you don't read it so fast next time. It's not like a novel, where you can just breeze through it. There is a ton of scripture to chew on. Most people tell me they had to read it twice and that they usually catch a lot more the second time. ** I believe I only mentioned Rev. 6 once briefly, because I did not want to venture too far off course from the message the Lord gave me.  

If you did, I will find it I'm sure. However, for everyone's benefit, how do you fit in rev 6 (the seals) into the timeline? Thanks.

Honestly, I have no idea how to prove when Rev. 6 begins. Right now, I would guess that it begins either during the start of the 70th week or possibly after the AoD, but it's clearly an overview of a general time that ends just before God's wrath avenges the martyr's blood. The rapture was not part of the focus here, but the next scene John saw (Rev. 7) was the great multitude standing before the throne and before the Lamb, but it does not say when they got there. They were already there.Cheers

I feel better. I really didn't miss any great insight on Rev 6 in your book because you gave none. Lol

Here is where I am confused-Rev 6:17

15Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide usf from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17For the great day of theirg wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

It sounds like God's wrath begins here at verse 17. But if the seals, trumpets, and bowls run consecutively, then this puts the rapture before the trumpets. I like how you also interpret Rev 7 as the Raptured saints. I have thought that too, but many of my brothers disagree with me and think these are the trib saints.

Like you mentioned, where does the abomination of desolation fit into the timeline here? You said something interesting for me to ponder- maybe the seals begins after the AofD.

I'm still enjoying researching this. Hopefully The Lord will give me greater wisdom and maybe I can catch up to you here.

Go Thy Way, Daniel is on my lap as we speak.

LOL - Aren't you the funny one! Did you just try to set me up, my brother? Well, I think you are wrong. I believe it's in chapter 3. But now you have me wondering, so I guess I will search for it tomorrow, Lord willing.

I don't see the wrath beginning in Rev. 6. It's getting close, but I believe the trumpets are when it begins. The seals are what is wrapped around the scroll to keep it rolled up/secure, sort of like our sealed envelopes today. But what's interesting is that the seals appear to help to know what's happening before His wrath begins, kind of like a mini-timeline. I think we can be sure these things will definitely be happening in the final 42 months, but I don't know how soon they begin. But I'm sure that inquiring minds want to know, so get studying, we're running out of time.

Cheers

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

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The problem that I see with any timeline is because many haven't Outlined the Structure of the Book.

 

Seven Seals

Seven Trumpets

Seven Bowls/Vials

 

With the Seven Seals: there is a "Parenthesis" between the 6th and the 7th Seal......Chapter 7.  The 7th Seal starts in Chapter 8.

 

With the 7 Trumpets: There is a "Parenthesis" between the 6th and 7thTrumpet.....Chapter 10-14 (The Seventh Angel sounds in Rev 11:15 but the vials/bowl Judgements don't start until Chapter 15)

 

The Seven Vials/Bowls:  There is a 2 Passage "Parenthesis" Rev: 16:15-16, before the 7th Vial.  Most Interestingly, this is the Parenthesis.....(Revelation 16:15-16) " Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.  {16} And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon."

 

Echoes....(1 Thessalonians 5:4) "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief." 

 

 

As for this whole discussion, it has been a Blessing to me to review and go back over things; it's really amazing some of the things you forget or miss....I always find something new.    I could study this Book for the rest of my life 15 hours a Day and never exhaust the treasures hidden therein.

 

 

There are only a Few Passages that "Seal" it for me; the rest is just Icing....

 

(2 Thessalonians 2:7-8) "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.  {8} And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"

 

The "he" is the Holy Spirit....and "HE'S" not going anywhere without "THE CHURCH".   Praise The LORD!!!!

 

 

In Combination with....

 

 

Daniel's "little horn" The Beast/ That Wicked from above......

 

(Daniel 9:27) "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

 

 

SEE IT ????

 

To "Confirm The Covenant" the beast/That Wicked has to be know Publicly (REVEALED).  Where's the Holy Spirit that INDWELLS "THE CHURCH"......TAKEN, out of the Way. 

 

 

Hidden in Plain Site......I LOVE THE LORD FOR THAT!!!!!

 

 

Praise The LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ARGOSY]

Just to be clear, Last trumpet= Rosh Hashanah

The rapture will occur during the Jewish Festival of the Feast of the Trumpets.

Both the 1 Corinthians and 1 Thess passages describe the rapture preceded by this "last" trumpet call.

This is possibly true. I am still waiting for pre-tribbers to deal with the fact that 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4/5 are in resurrection/destruction context respectively. Neither chapter is in a rapture only context.

[ENOCH2010]

The only way for pre-tribbers to have a rapture before the second coming is they have to add a resurrection prior to the 2 the Bible teaches in Rev.20, and we all know what the Bible says about adding to the book. But it seems they all are willing to add a resurrection so they can get outa here before the Lord's second coming.

[Spock]

The only way for pre-tribbers to have a rapture before the second coming is they have to add a resurrection prior to the 2 the Bible teaches in Rev.20, and we all know what the Bible says about adding to the book. But it seems they all are willing to add a resurrection so they can get outa here before the Lord's second coming.

Puh-lease. Stop this silliness. I'm sure your words sadden your big brother very much here (Enoch 2021).

[ENOCH2010]

The truth saddens most people, most of the time.

[Spock]

The truth saddens most people, most of the time.

Not quite my brother.

THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREEEEEEEEE!

[ENOCH2010]

If you except it, it will set you free. If a person doesn't except it, they would rather not hear it.

[Enoch2021]

 

The only way for pre-tribbers to have a rapture before the second coming is they have to add a resurrection prior to the 2 the Bible teaches in Rev.20, and we all know what the Bible says about adding to the book. But it seems they all are willing to add a resurrection so they can get outa here before the Lord's second coming.

Puh-lease. Stop this silliness. I'm sure your words sadden your big brother very much here (Enoch 2021).

 

 

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We are NO RELATION.......WHATSOEVER lol

 

And your...............PUH----LEASE was spot on!!!  Don't need to "add" anything to that

[ENOCH2010]

See what I mean Spock. He don't want to hear anything that rebuts the pre-trib doctrine