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[His_disciple3]

Everyone one on here thinks they have Biblical truth.Many think their interpretation is the only one.Frankly I am very guarded what I see or believe on here.

that's why we have scripture, when scriptures says not to use tongues in church without an interpreter what is there to interpret about that, it is Grace through faith not of works, what is to interpret about that, women are not to have Authority over or to teach man, and to remain silent in Church I don't need someone telling me that God, Didn't mean what He said. For He is not the Author of confusion, He says what He means and means what He says, His yeas are yeas and nays nays. I don't need someone saying that the apostles were old fashioned and had no respect for women. yeah scriptures uses symbols some, where the Lamb in Heaven that opened the Book was Jesus the Holy Spirit, the offices given to the Church and the Spiritual gifts were for the Unity of the brethren, Not to say well MY Holy Spirit says this but it is ok if YOUR Holy Spirits different.

[missmuffet]

 

Everyone one on here thinks they have Biblical truth.Many think their interpretation is the only one.Frankly I am very guarded what I see or believe on here.

that's why we have scripture, when scriptures says not to use tongues in church without an interpreter what is there to interpret about that, it is Grace through faith not of works, what is to interpret about that, women are not to have Authority over or to teach man, and to remain silent in Church I don't need someone telling me that God, Didn't mean what He said. For He is not the Author of confusion, He says what He means and means what He says, His yeas are yeas and nays nays. I don't need someone saying that the apostles were old fashioned and had no respect for women. yeah scriptures uses symbols some, where the Lamb in Heaven that opened the Book was Jesus the Holy Spirit, the offices given to the Church and the Spiritual gifts were for the Unity of the brethren, Not to say well MY Holy Spirit says this but it is ok if YOUR Holy Spirits different.

 

You can put 10 people in a room and give them the same verse of scripture.You would probably get 10 different interpretations.As long as a person is line up with  scripture you can not tell them that your interpretation is the only one that is right.In my opinion that is pride.

[Guest Butero]

 

 

Everyone one on here thinks they have Biblical truth.Many think their interpretation is the only one.Frankly I am very guarded what I see or believe on here.

that's why we have scripture, when scriptures says not to use tongues in church without an interpreter what is there to interpret about that, it is Grace through faith not of works, what is to interpret about that, women are not to have Authority over or to teach man, and to remain silent in Church I don't need someone telling me that God, Didn't mean what He said. For He is not the Author of confusion, He says what He means and means what He says, His yeas are yeas and nays nays. I don't need someone saying that the apostles were old fashioned and had no respect for women. yeah scriptures uses symbols some, where the Lamb in Heaven that opened the Book was Jesus the Holy Spirit, the offices given to the Church and the Spiritual gifts were for the Unity of the brethren, Not to say well MY Holy Spirit says this but it is ok if YOUR Holy Spirits different.

 

You can put 10 people in a room and give them the same verse of scripture.You would probably get 10 different interpretations.As long as a person is line up with  scripture you can not tell them that your interpretation is the only one that is right.In my opinion that is pride.

 

This is a perfect example of the problem.  I take a literal interpretation of scripture, and disagree with much of what His Disciple just said.  I do agree we are not to use the gift of tongues in church without an interpreter, but I don't believe this has anything to do with praying in tongues.  While we are saved by grace, James makes it clear that faith without works is dead.  I do agree with His Disciple when he says scripture is not out dated and I also agree it doesn't have a bias based on discrimination towards women, because just making those kind of accusations shows the person doesn't believe the Bible is inerrant.  It can't be inerrant and have a bias. 

 

The starting point for everything must be that the Bible is the Word of God and perfect, and then we have to seek to figure out the intended meaning of each passage.  There is such a thing as rightly dividing the Word of truth.  Just as His Disciple believes he is 100 percent right, and there can be no other interpretation, I believe in some instances I am right in disagreeing with him, and his interpretation is false.  Everyone feels they are correct.

[His_disciple3]

You can put 10 people in a room and give them the same verse of scripture. You would probably get 10 different interpretations.As long as a person is line up with scripture you can not tell them that your interpretation is the only one that is right. In my opinion that is pride.

Scripture will never contradict other scripture, if they are lined up with scripture, then there is no misinterpretation.  

how do you think false religions are started, they focus on one scripture or one set of scriptures, then make others scriptures wrap around that and build their doctrine, on that. you can't take one scripture and make anything, we are not to live by bread alone, but by every Word of God (paraphrase), that is why we are in such a division, within the Body of Christ, people look at one scripture and build something on that regardless of how many other scripture pertain to that thought, there is one denomination that takes one verse:Mark 16:16

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned

KJV

and wrap other verses around this and thus according to them if we are not WATER baptized then we are not saved,(SO God is limited To where He can save people, for there is no water to baptize in the Desert. However Jesus, John the Baptist and Paul taught another baptism.

Acts 19:3-5

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

KJV

maybe two to three scriptures says people spoke in tongues when they received the Holy Ghost, I can show you 6-8 verses where it doesn't say they spoke in tongues, but yet a whole denomination says speaking in tongues is THE evidence. here is just one for example:

Acts 8:15-17

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

KJV

now these two doctrines are in the Church/the Body of Christ, people lead and filled by the SAME SPIRIT, preaches these two doctrines when clearly they are not lined up with other verses of Scriptures. If one will take note they both condtradict each other, one says baptism is THE Evidence, the other says that speaking in tongues is THE evidence. both can not be right so both should not be allowed to be preached, someone somewhere should stand up and say this can't be done in the Church the BOdy of Christ. but the ones that speak against these false doctrines are the Bad guys in todays Church and Christian forums. which should be no surprise, for in the last days right will be wrong and wrong will be right and:

2 Tim 4:3-4

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

KJV

 

there is an evidence given in scripture, but it is not baptism (a Work) nor Speaking in tongues(a gift) :

Matt 7:20

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

KJV

[His_disciple3]

 

 

 

Everyone one on here thinks they have Biblical truth.Many think their interpretation is the only one.Frankly I am very guarded what I see or believe on here.

that's why we have scripture, when scriptures says not to use tongues in church without an interpreter what is there to interpret about that, it is Grace through faith not of works, what is to interpret about that, women are not to have Authority over or to teach man, and to remain silent in Church I don't need someone telling me that God, Didn't mean what He said. For He is not the Author of confusion, He says what He means and means what He says, His yeas are yeas and nays nays. I don't need someone saying that the apostles were old fashioned and had no respect for women. yeah scriptures uses symbols some, where the Lamb in Heaven that opened the Book was Jesus the Holy Spirit, the offices given to the Church and the Spiritual gifts were for the Unity of the brethren, Not to say well MY Holy Spirit says this but it is ok if YOUR Holy Spirits different.

 

You can put 10 people in a room and give them the same verse of scripture.You would probably get 10 different interpretations.As long as a person is line up with  scripture you can not tell them that your interpretation is the only one that is right.In my opinion that is pride.

 

This is a perfect example of the problem.  I take a literal interpretation of scripture, and disagree with much of what His Disciple just said.  I do agree we are not to use the gift of tongues in church without an interpreter, but I don't believe this has anything to do with praying in tongues.  While we are saved by grace, James makes it clear that faith without works is dead.  I do agree with His Disciple when he says scripture is not out dated and I also agree it doesn't have a bias based on discrimination towards women, because just making those kind of accusations shows the person doesn't believe the Bible is inerrant.  It can't be inerrant and have a bias. 

 

The starting point for everything must be that the Bible is the Word of God and perfect, and then we have to seek to figure out the intended meaning of each passage.  There is such a thing as rightly dividing the Word of truth.  Just as His Disciple believes he is 100 percent right, and there can be no other interpretation, I believe in some instances I am right in disagreeing with him, and his interpretation is false.  Everyone feels they are correct.

 

faith without works< I went to a funeral the other day and saw a Body, it was a was dead body but still a body. faith without works is still faith, But saving faith will bring/produce works, those works are not what saves but rather shows that we are saved, you will know them by their fruit.

a work would be to take care of your family, an atheist knows to take care of his family but that work will not save him.

John 15:5

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

KJV

you can't work unless you are in/attached  to Him (one of His already) to start with so again I say, well it is not I that says it, but rather again let scripture say:

Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

KJV

 

[Guest Butero]

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.  James 2:24

 

You just took Ephesians 2:9 and showed where it says, "Not of works, lets any man should boast."  I just gave you a scripture from James 2:24 that says a man is justified by works and not faith only.  We have to rightly divide the Word of truth, so when you claim that you are taking scripture at face value, and others are not, and that is the only issue here, you are wrong.  You say scripture won't be contrary to scripture.  I agree, so just as you can claim James 2:24 can't mean we are saved, at least in part by works, I can say just the opposite.  I can say that since we are saved in part by works according to James, Ephesians 2:9 can't mean what you claim it means.  Thus we interpret scripture different, but we both believe the Bible is the Word of God. 

[His_disciple3]

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.  James 2:24

 

You just took Ephesians 2:9 and showed where it says, "Not of works, lets any man should boast."  I just gave you a scripture from James 2:24 that says a man is justified by works and not faith only.  We have to rightly divide the Word of truth, so when you claim that you are taking scripture at face value, and others are not, and that is the only issue here, you are wrong.  You say scripture won't be contrary to scripture.  I agree, so just as you can claim James 2:24 can't mean we are saved, at least in part by works, I can say just the opposite.  I can say that since we are saved in part by works according to James, Ephesians 2:9 can't mean what you claim it means.  Thus we interpret scripture different, but we both believe the Bible is the Word of God.

ok so if I am right on my interpretaion of EPH. and you are right on your interpretation of james then we do have a contradiction, which can't be so we are either both wrong or one is wrong and the other is right so to rightly divide we have to look further with scripture for the true interpretation not agree to disagree or not to continue to allow false doctrine to be preached : so I say this may help:

Rom 4:1-11

4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

KJV

Abraham was counted righteous before any works(before circumcision), Also we would look at our righteousness at it's very best would still leave us wanting. for our righteousness is as Filthy Rags we could also add romans 12:1 that we are to present our bodies a living sacrifice Holy and acceptable before God for Salvation, NO NO NO< but for what Paul said in romans 4 for the debt that God paid, for a Reasonable service, for what God has done not to get saved, remember we can't do anything unless we are attached to Him already. then works seals that what was done,, But please keep in Mind the works I do are because God has empowered me to do them, so He gets the Glory for my works not me receiving salvation because of them. WE are dead, no men tell no tales neither do they work any works, then God quickens us pays our Sin debt for the wages of Sin is death, so What God did through salvation by grace through faith produces works not is produced by works

[Guest Butero]

James 2:21-24

 

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?  Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?  And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him, for righteousness:  and he was called the Friend of God.  Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

Both passages speak of Abraham, but yours seems to indicate Abraham was not justified by works, while James states he was justified by works.  It is not as simple as you imply.  You are right that there is a correct interpretation, but it is not as simple as me or you claiming we are taking scripture at face value while the other person is not. 

[His_disciple3]

James 2:21-24

 

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?  Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?  And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him, for righteousness:  and he was called the Friend of God.  Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

Both passages speak of Abraham, but yours seems to indicate Abraham was not justified by works, while James states he was justified by works.  It is not as simple as you imply.  You are right that there is a correct interpretation, but it is not as simple as me or you claiming we are taking scripture at face value while the other person is not.

BUt You are missing the true vine aspect, our works are not our works, our righteousness is not our righteousness. we can do nothing unless we are already attached to the vine, we are counted righteous(but saved by grace) through faith and the Works come with that faith, not for that faith, we work out our salvation, not work for our salvation. it is the Works of Christ that then God saw the travail of His( Jesus' ) soul, He was satisfied, If He was satisfied, what can man do to add to that satisfaction. To say that works brings Salvation is to say that the works of Christ were not good enough, that He left something undone for man to do. your own reference is saying what I am saying

James 2:18

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

KJV

WE will see their fruit, but faith produces that work, not that works produces faith. Least I boast, I can't say look at what I have done, But rather Jesus  looked at what you did through Me. there were some in scripture that said But Jesus look at the great works WE DID in your name, and they didn't make it in. they took the glory, Abraham was already counted righteous before he offered up his son and His test proved/showed that righteousness( He showed his faith by his works) can faith save? without grace. we are saved by grace through faith, if James is saying what you have been taught that he is saying then works can save, so where is grace?

Rom 3:26-28

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

KJV

Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

KJV

no my friend we work because we are saved, not to get saved , and faith produces works( we can't have it unless we are one of His and empowered by Him unto a workmanship. works brings forth/shows faith but doesn't produce faith. peter walking on water showed His faith but that is not what saved him, for even though his faith and works allowed Him to walk on water, His faith was the thing that empowered Him to call upon the name of the Lord, and it was the Lord(grace) that saved Him. Peter works had got him into a spot that showed Him that he needed the Lord, as well as the law being a schoolmaster showing the Jews the needed grace as well. Plus His walking on water had nothing to do with if he was saved or not, for ten others were with him in the boat that is with him in heaven right now that didn't get out of the boat and walk on water. Abraham was counted justified by his works for it showed His faith, so we are saved by GRACE through faith, with faith producing works, can faith save? can works save? can faith and works save, can justification save? if so then it would not be of GRACE!!!!

Gal 2:16-21

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

KJV

[Hall7]

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