MorningGlory Posted August 2, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2014 The second coming of gog and magog is after the thousand years for their is two parts to judgment day. First the dispised one that vile person must come in power and kill all of gods people. The nations he does not have power over, edom, moab and the chief prince children of ammon which is current day Jordan anti Christ will not have power over and I believe there will be the remnant. After all the saints that are appointed to die in the 3 and half years is fulfilled then all nations mention in Ezekiel 38 and 39 will go up against Israel and the lord thy god will shake the earth and the whole city will be divided into 3 parts. that man is here. and he is the leader of that vicious group called Islamic state What group is 'islamic state'? Are you referring to ISIS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themessenger2014 Posted August 2, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 42 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/05/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2014 The second coming of gog and magog is after the thousand years for their is two parts to judgment day. First the dispised one that vile person must come in power and kill all of gods people. The nations he does not have power over, edom, moab and the chief prince children of ammon which is current day Jordan anti Christ will not have power over and I believe there will be the remnant. After all the saints that are appointed to die in the 3 and half years is fulfilled then all nations mention in Ezekiel 38 and 39 will go up against Israel and the lord thy god will shake the earth and the whole city will be divided into 3 parts. that man is here. and he is the leader of that vicious group called Islamic state What group is 'islamic state'? Are you referring to ISIS? YES I AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted August 2, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2014 Our Lord Jesus directly connected the tribulation events of Matt.24 to the Luke 17 warning about the first one 'taken', when He repeated the idea of those being taken wheresoever the eagles are gathered, but with one difference. In the Matt.24:28 version He called those taken a dead "carcase". So that's definitely not about a 'rapture' of His Church. It's about a gathering of the deceived to the Antichrist. well lets look at what scripture says. for the bible interprets it self luke 17 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. As thou readeth, when they asked the lord where after verse 36 he saidwheresoever the body is there will the eagles be gathered together. now when the lord said body in luke he wanted to make it clear what kind of body he is talking about as it is written in mathew where instead of using the word body he use carcase, saying that the saints that are going to be taken(rapture) are going to be killed. Now lets see if there is any scripture from different books that backs this saying which i say. For we all know the bible interprets it self First lets look at mathew 24 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory Let's look again! This time with eyes and ears open! Luke 17:33-37 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. Is that verse about wanting to escape the tribulation? Absolutely not. 'Whosoever shall seek to SAVE his life shall lose it' is about those who seek to escape... the tribulation, like wanting to be raptured out. That's our Lord Jesus' Own Words there. But He then said, 'whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it', that is about those who remain faithful waiting on Him, that make a stand for Him going through the tribulation, not fearing death! So right there, in that Luke 17:33 verse, our Lord Jesus set the premise for this Message to His disciples and His Church. It shows the first ones 'taken' are those who seek to SAVE their life, but shall loose it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. The field represents the world, staying at the grinding mill represents keeping at work for Christ for those who stay in Him and are not deceived and not fearful if they lose their life for Christ during the tribulation. By doing so they will have preserved their 'soul' unto Everlasting Life in Christ Jesus! But notice what these become that are the 'taken'... 37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together." The Matt.24 Scripture reveals more when you read it to include the subject warnings Jesus gave about the coming pseudo-Christ, warning us to not believe on that false one who comes first per this order... Matt.24:23-29 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not. Just prior in Matt.24:21, Jesus warned about a coming "great tribulation" and how He shortened it, and then began warning of this special event of a coming pseudo-Christ ("false Christs" = pseudochristos, two Greek words pseudo + Christos). The context of v.23 & 26 is singular. Why would our Lord Jesus warn us to "go not forth" when some will proclaim that pseudo-Christ? NOW... we know just where those deceived by that pseudo-Christ will be taken to, to that false one! They will believe on that fake Christ thinking he will be Jesus. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Then in v.27 our Lord Jesus contrasts 'how' He comes with how that pseudo-Christ will appear. When Christ does return, none will have to tell us He is here, or there, or in the secret chambers, or in the desert, for all eyes will see His coming in the clouds per Rev.1, like lightning shining out of the east skies and shinning quickly to the western skies, a view easily seen by peoples from the earth's vantage point. But at this verse 27 Jesus has still... not come yet, not until verse 29 further below! The verse 28 subject goes with what He warned of before, about the coming pseudo-Christ! And what did He show those who are gathered to where the eagles are will be like? Like a dead "carcase", and the Greek word for "carcase" definitely is pointing to carrion, a dead corpse! Then after those tribulation events, is the time of Christ's second coming and gathering of HIS saints that remain faithful waiting on Him... 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Pretty simple once the Scripture is followed as it is actually written, instead of slicing and dicing it so as to try and force it to fit men's doctrines of a pre-trib rapture. 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Themessenger2014 Posted August 2, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 42 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/05/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2014 Our Lord Jesus directly connected the tribulation events of Matt.24 to the Luke 17 warning about the first one 'taken', when He repeated the idea of those being taken wheresoever the eagles are gathered, but with one difference. In the Matt.24:28 version He called those taken a dead "carcase". So that's definitely not about a 'rapture' of His Church. It's about a gathering of the deceived to the Antichrist. well lets look at what scripture says. for the bible interprets it self luke 17 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. As thou readeth, when they asked the lord where after verse 36 he saidwheresoever the body is there will the eagles be gathered together. now when the lord said body in luke he wanted to make it clear what kind of body he is talking about as it is written in mathew where instead of using the word body he use carcase, saying that the saints that are going to be taken(rapture) are going to be killed. Now lets see if there is any scripture from different books that backs this saying which i say. For we all know the bible interprets it self First lets look at mathew 24 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory Let's look again! This time with eyes and ears open! Luke 17:33-37 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. Is that verse about wanting to escape the tribulation? Absolutely not. 'Whosoever shall seek to SAVE his life shall lose it' is about those who seek to escape... the tribulation, like wanting to be raptured out. That's our Lord Jesus' Own Words there. But He then said, 'whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it', that is about those who remain faithful waiting on Him, that make a stand for Him going through the tribulation, not fearing death! So right there, in that Luke 17:33 verse, our Lord Jesus set the premise for this Message to His disciples and His Church. It shows the first ones 'taken' are those who seek to SAVE their life, but shall loose it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. The field represents the world, staying at the grinding mill represents keeping at work for Christ for those who stay in Him and are not deceived and not fearful if they lose their life for Christ during the tribulation. By doing so they will have preserved their 'soul' unto Everlasting Life in Christ Jesus! But notice what these become that are the 'taken'... 37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together." The Matt.24 Scripture reveals more when you read it to include the subject warnings Jesus gave about the coming pseudo-Christ, warning us to not believe on that false one who comes first per this order... Matt.24:23-29 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not. Just prior in Matt.24:21, Jesus warned about a coming "great tribulation" and how He shortened it, and then began warning of this special event of a coming pseudo-Christ ("false Christs" = pseudochristos, two Greek words pseudo + Christos). The context of v.23 & 26 is singular. Why would our Lord Jesus warn us to "go not forth" when some will proclaim that pseudo-Christ? NOW... we know just where those deceived by that pseudo-Christ will be taken to, to that false one! They will believe on that fake Christ thinking he will be Jesus. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Then in v.27 our Lord Jesus contrasts 'how' He comes with how that pseudo-Christ will appear. When Christ does return, none will have to tell us He is here, or there, or in the secret chambers, or in the desert, for all eyes will see His coming in the clouds per Rev.1, like lightning shining out of the east skies and shinning quickly to the western skies, a view easily seen by peoples from the earth's vantage point. But at this verse 27 Jesus has still... not come yet, not until verse 29 further below! The verse 28 subject goes with what He warned of before, about the coming pseudo-Christ! And what did He show those who are gathered to where the eagles are will be like? Like a dead "carcase", and the Greek word for "carcase" definitely is pointing to carrion, a dead corpse! Then after those tribulation events, is the time of Christ's second coming and gathering of HIS saints that remain faithful waiting on Him... 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Pretty simple once the Scripture is followed as it is actually written, instead of slicing and dicing it so as to try and force it to fit men's doctrines of a pre-trib rapture. why would the lord say 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. in reference to them that save his life shall lose it talking about them that want to be raptured out? does that make sense? if i want to be raptured and pray to god and do his will why would he tell me if i save my life im going to die because i want to be raptured? but if the lord ment if you a man save his life from taking the sign of 666 for as it is written in revelations any do not take the mark of the beast will be killed. and who lose his life for the lords sake shall save or preserve it. does not that mean that he died for christ? did not god say precious in the sight of the lord is the death of his saints in the book of psalms? did not the lord say the saints will be beheaded in revelations? did not the lord talk about the martyr of the saints in various books of the bible? but behold im not going to argue with you. what ever you believe then believe but i say when you see these things come to pass all which was said to you know that it was not from me but from the mouth of the living god. all im saying to you is to watch for i tell you anti christ is here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted August 2, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2014 why would the lord say 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. in reference to them that save his life shall lose it talking about them that want to be raptured out? does that make sense? if i want to be raptured and pray to god and do his will why would he tell me if i save my life im going to die because i want to be raptured? Who are those today who are told they will be raptured out prior to the coming "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus warned of? Surely you know who those are and how they expect to escape... the tribulation. One must pay strict attention to what our Lord said in that Luke 17:33 verse: Luke 17:33-37 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. What would He be talking about with those who seek to save their life, but will lose it? What life, the life of their flesh, or the life of their soul? It's about those who seek to save their flesh life during the tribulation at the expense of the life of their soul. The life of one's flesh vs. life of one's soul are two separate things in God's Word. How would one seek to save their flesh life during the tribulation? By agreeing to bow to the coming pseudo-Christ in false worship. The life to lose by doing that false worship is one's soul, loosing eternal Life in Christ Jesus. But those who lose their life (flesh) during the tribulation for REFUSING the coming Antichrist, they will have preserved the life of their soul in Jesus Christ, and will reign with Him as kings and priests when He comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themessenger2014 Posted August 2, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 42 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/05/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2014 why would the lord say 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. in reference to them that save his life shall lose it talking about them that want to be raptured out? does that make sense? if i want to be raptured and pray to god and do his will why would he tell me if i save my life im going to die because i want to be raptured? Who are those today who are told they will be raptured out prior to the coming "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus warned of? Surely you know who those are and how they expect to escape... the tribulation. One must pay strict attention to what our Lord said in that Luke 17:33 verse: Luke 17:33-37 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. What would He be talking about with those who seek to save their life, but will lose it? What life, the life of their flesh, or the life of their soul? It's about those who seek to save their flesh life during the tribulation at the expense of the life of their soul. The life of one's flesh vs. life of one's soul are two separate things in God's Word. How would one seek to save their flesh life during the tribulation? By agreeing to bow to the coming pseudo-Christ in false worship. The life to lose by doing that false worship is one's soul, loosing eternal Life in Christ Jesus. But those who lose their life (flesh) during the tribulation for REFUSING the coming Antichrist, they will have preserved the life of their soul in Jesus Christ, and will reign with Him as kings and priests when He comes. but thats what i was saying. if a man saves his life during the great tribulation by taking the mark of the beast he surely he shall lose it but if a man saves his life by not taking the mark (tho he be killed) he will save the life of his soul and reign for ever with christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted August 2, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2014 but thats what i was saying. if a man saves his life during the great tribulation by taking the mark of the beast he surely he shall lose it but if a man saves his life by not taking the mark (tho he be killed) he will save the life of his soul and reign for ever with christ But now... apply that same context to His subject of those 'taken' and being the dead 'carcase', that's where the eagles will be gathered. Here's the Matt.24 version... Matt.24 37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be . 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking , marrying and giving in marriage , until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came , and took them all away ; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be . The first one 'taken' in the field (world), or taken at the grinding mill, is not about a rapture at all. It is a warning by our Lord Jesus against being with the crowd of the deceived that are taken in by the flood of waters out of the serpent's mouth. He's talking about those outside Noah's ark, not those of His inside the ark which are not a dead "carcase". The anchor (or really anvil) that points directly to that deception is how our Lord Jesus called those first ones 'taken' a dead "carcase" (a dead corpse) in Matt.24:28. Just who died with the flood of Noah and became a dead "carcase"? Those OUTSIDE the ark. That's the one 'taken' in those Luke 17 and Matt.24 verses, because His disciples in Luke 17:37 ask Him... "Where, Lord?", meaning where will those be 'taken' to? And yet it's truly astounding that the pre-trib school would use that 'taken' example in those Scriptures that is about the "carcase" to mean a rapture escape in comparison with being inside the ark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted August 2, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2014 But those who lose their life (flesh) during the tribulation for REFUSING the coming Antichrist, they will have preserved the life of their soul in Jesus Christ, and will reign with Him as kings and priests when He comes. but thats what i was saying. if a man saves his life during the great tribulation by taking the mark of the beast he surely he shall lose it but if a man saves his life by not taking the mark (tho he be killed) he will save the life of his soul and reign for ever with christ Then there's that other point, about those who lose their life, but preserve their soul unto Christ but how? By refusing the Antichrist when he comes. With those who are killed for their Witness that are delivered up to the Antichrist during the tribulation, how could that ever be about a Pre-tribulational rapture? They would miss the opportunity to lose their flesh life for Christ if they were raptured prior to the great tribulation, once again showing our Lord Jesus was NOT... speaking of a pre-trib rapture there at all for His in Luke 17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themessenger2014 Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 42 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/05/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2014 But those who lose their life (flesh) during the tribulation for REFUSING the coming Antichrist, they will have preserved the life of their soul in Jesus Christ, and will reign with Him as kings and priests when He comes. but thats what i was saying. if a man saves his life during the great tribulation by taking the mark of the beast he surely he shall lose it but if a man saves his life by not taking the mark (tho he be killed) he will save the life of his soul and reign for ever with christ Then there's that other point, about those who lose their life, but preserve their soul unto Christ but how? By refusing the Antichrist when he comes. With those who are killed for their Witness that are delivered up to the Antichrist during the tribulation, how could that ever be about a Pre-tribulational rapture? They would miss the opportunity to lose their flesh life for Christ if they were raptured prior to the great tribulation, once again showing our Lord Jesus was NOT... speaking of a pre-trib rapture there at all for His in Luke 17. i do not know of a pre tribulation rapture all i know is the great tribulation then after judgment day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2014 i do not know of a pre tribulation rapture all i know is the great tribulation then after judgment day. Hi The Messenger, I'm hoping you can answer these questions. (1) Do you believe that on the 7th trumpet when Christ returns, that Satan will be bound for a thousand years? and if Satan is bound for a thousand years so that he cannot decieve the nations anymore, and Christ rules with his saints; (2) then who are these nations? Are there nations still existing after the coming? (3) will Christ's kingdom be in heaven, or on this earth for those 1000 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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