Lottery Tickets

[Guest shiloh357]

I'm condemning the sin, not the sinner.  I have not disparaged anyone for gambling. i have not said they are not Christians.  I have kept my comments away from condemning anyone for participating.  Yet when I condemn the sin, some of you take it personally and I think it comes down to justification and rationalization.  You can rationalize or justify any activity regardless of the potential dangers and pitfalls that come with it.

 

How many people who engage  in or support homosexuality fight tooth and nail against any one calling that lifestyle a sin?   The human mind is phenomenal its ability to make black into white or day into night. 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

No personal experience on my part at all.   I am going off of the facts that are out there for everyone to see.   Gambling addictions are surpassing alcoholism as our nations chief addiction.  Thanks to the fact that gambling is more accessible than ever, things are only going to get worse.

 

show those facts, please.

 

Top of Post 89

[Guest shiloh357]

and if i may, regarding the whole straw-man argument that the bible doesn't prohibit child molestation or wife beating.... that's not true at all. the bible is full of commands to not harm a child. it's full of commands to love your neighbor as yourself. it's full of commands for husbands and wives to treat one another with love, respect and compassion. physical abuse is directly contrary to those commands.

Thought you had decided to move on???   There are no prohibitions against either child or spousal abuse in the Bible.   That's my point.  Yes there are other commands that provide a behavioral paradigm meaning that we don't need a specific command against abuse or molestation.  We can extrapolate from the rest of the Bible why such things are sin.

 

The same applies to gambling.  I don't need a specific verse about not gambling because I can draw from other commandments in the Bible to show that gambling is wrong and is not an activity that Christian people should engage in.

[Guest LadyC]

of those two links, one opened to a page specifically about gambling, the other said page not found.

 

however:

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/AA76/AA76.htm and http://sierratucson.crchealth.com/disorder/addiction/ both list alcohol, drugs (specifically prescription drugs, surprisingly) and nicotine as being the top addictions.

 

thing is here, there are people with addictive personalities. they're going to struggle with anything that comes along, be it drugs, alcohol, gambling, cigarettes, sky-diving, you name it. it's a problem.

 

and there are many, many people who do NOT have addictive personalities. they're not likely to struggle with anything.

 

like it or not, gambling isn't the root of all evil. IT is not a sin. it is an activity. you can't condemn an activity. what people DO with that activity MAY become sinful. but to call the activity a sin is to heap condemnation on anyone who participates in a non-sinful thing, just because some people have a problem with it. and yes, by making continual comments in response to people who don't have problems with it like, for example (your own words) "well not yet, anyway", or that those with a problem are usually the last to know.... that is doing exactly what you think you're not doing. 

 

i'm not rationalizing my position at all. i'm stating the bare facts of the issue. and those are facts that no matter how often you refute them, you can't dispute them with any legitimate data, or it would have been done already.

[Guest LadyC]

 

and if i may, regarding the whole straw-man argument that the bible doesn't prohibit child molestation or wife beating.... that's not true at all. the bible is full of commands to not harm a child. it's full of commands to love your neighbor as yourself. it's full of commands for husbands and wives to treat one another with love, respect and compassion. physical abuse is directly contrary to those commands.

Thought you had decided to move on???   There are no prohibitions against either child or spousal abuse in the Bible.   That's my point.  Yes there are other commands that provide a behavioral paradigm meaning that we don't need a specific command against abuse or molestation.  We can extrapolate from the rest of the Bible why such things are sin.

 

The same applies to gambling.  I don't need a specific verse about not gambling because I can draw from other commandments in the Bible to show that gambling is wrong and is not an activity that Christian people should engage in.

 

 

i did move on from the personal disagreement you and i were having. remember, the one where i was pressing you to defend the comments that you had made that i took personally?

 

you are not God, shiloh. you have no right or responsibility telling others what activity they should or should not engage in. that's out of your scope of authority. and yes, if God says to NOT HARM someone, then to go out and DO HARM to that someone is a direct violation of God's commands. not sure how you can miss that.

[Guest shiloh357]

like it or not, gambling isn't the root of all evil. IT is not a sin. it is an activity. you can't condemn an activity.

 

Gambling is founded on the love of money which is the root of all evil.  ON that basis alone it is a sin.

 

what people DO with that activity MAY become sinful. but to call the activity a sin is to heap condemnation on anyone who participates in a non-sinful thing, just because some people have a problem with it.

 

I am not condemning anyone.  I am simply pointing out that gambling has all the earmarks of a sin.  I realize that you can't accept it because you see it as commentary on your behavior.   Well that's between you and Lord. 

 

and yes, by making continual comments in response to people who don't have problems with it like, for example (your own words) "well not yet, anyway", or that those with a problem are usually the last to know.... that is doing exactly what you think you're not doing.

 

No, it's fact that people who have addictions  are usually the last to see it in themselves.  They think they are in control, but need others around them to help them see they have a problem.

[GoldenEagle]

2.  I have never met anyone willing to throw away large sums of money in casinos with no hope for nothing in return.  To throw away hundreds of dollars for no reason is a pretty silly and irresponsible form of entertainment particularly the risks that gambling poses.

 

3.  Gambling as a sin is not mentioned in the Bible.  But the Bible doesn't mention EVERY sin a person can possibly commit.   Again, as I said to Patriot the argument that it has to be mentioned directly in the Bible as a sin in order to qualify as a sin is a faulty argument given there are multiple activities we deem as sinful that are not mentioned in the Bible.   "Child molestation, spousal abuse, suicide, just to name a few.   

 

The Bible sets up a behavioral paradigm that allows us to examine things the Bible doesn't address in the light of what it does address.  The Bible says we are to flee, to get as far away from sin as we can.   The problem is that we want loopholes.  We want to make things permissible as long as they don't go "too far."  

 

If we apply the logic being employed by those who argue that gambling isn't a sin because it isn't directly mentioned in the Bible, then as long as one doesn't make graven images, one is free to make idols out of paper since the Bible doesn't say that making idols out of paper are a sin.   Of course, we don't argue that way because we know that the medium isn't the issue.  We understand that commandment to be a prohibition of any idol regardless of the material it is made from because the Bible is setting a behavior paradigm regarding idolatry.

 

I don't need a verse that says gambling is a sin because of the potential sin one can be caught up in when one gambles.  Gambling is designed to impoverish people and make the house rich.  Lotteries are no different.  They hook people and make them slaves without them even knowing it.  There are people with alcohol addictions who think they are still in control. 

 

#2 Well, just because you haven’t met someone with the expectation of simply having a good time gambling knowing full well they won’t win anything doesn’t mean there aren’t people out there who do so. I think LadyC and Other One have that expectation. So there are people out there who have that expectation. Your experience may be limited or so it seems then.

#3 So the Bible doesn’t mention gambling as a sin. So you are taking a personal conviction or preference and saying that it is a sin (see quote below in red). What Biblical passage(s) do you base your claim then that infers it is a sin then?

You’re argument would be a lot better received I think if you began with the starting point that all things are possible (permissible) but not all things are beneficial (profitable or edify).  See 1 Cor. 6:12 or 1 Cor. 10:23 for example.

Or then that people should be led by the Holy Spirit. (John 14:26, John 16:13, Gal. 5:16 for example)

Or you could even argue that the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. (See Luke 16:13 or 1 Tim 6:10 for example)

Or even perhaps that gambling is a way to keep from working. Particularly if people are irresponsible with their time or money. (See Prov. 10:4 for example)

Or if people’s motivation is to gamble to have bigger, better things that is coveting. (See Ex. 20:17)

I will say that many who gamble have a sense of false hope. They put their hope in winning against huge odds instead of placing their hope in God.

So is gambling a sin? No. Is it unwise to do it excessively based on the verses above? Sure. Can it become an idol? Sure. Is it an idol for everyone? No. So the difference is it being a wisdom issue verses calling it a sin IMO. Particularly for those who have a tendency to become compulsive abusers of gambling.

Simply saying something is in the Bible or diverting from the actual discussion at hand (the other examples provided) doesn’t necessarily improve your argument or convince others brother. Surely that is your motivation of discussin this? At least provide your logic and a way for people to look at what the Scripture says that supports said logic to read for themselves.

God bless,

GE

[coheir]

I am sticking to my first post gambling is like drinking.

It ok if you do a little.

It is not ok if you over indulge.

both can be destructive only after you over indulge.

 

Destruction of family life or society comes in many forms.

where does the money go said one post ?

 

If you make a purchase at Walmart are you not helping promote the homosexual life style as they are the biggest giver to that cause. 

Same with taking kids to disney wolrd they promote it to.

If some one buys a few lotto tickets or plays a few one arm bandits its not self destruction therefore it is not

wrong. It was done for the fun of it win or lose there was fun associated with it not greed, not a bad thing but there was no destruction of anything.

 

many forms of destruction over indulging is the key I think.

Common sense,  does not allow greed to have control

[GoldenEagle]

My father nearly went to jail because of gambling, I thought I'd mention that.

He taught me not to do it. Lottery tickets he declared, were the exception, providing you buy one and one only!

 

So your father taught you moderation Oak? That's good.

[Guest shiloh357]

#2 Well, just because you haven’t met someone with the expectation of simply having a good time gambling knowing full well they won’t win anything doesn’t mean there aren’t people out there who do so. I think LadyC and Other One have that expectation. So there are people out there who have that expectation. Your experience may be limited or so it seems then.

 

I am just realistic enough to know that most people don't gamble just to throw money away.  There are exceptions and I have conceded that already.  But the vast majority of people gamble for the hopes of a return of some kind.

 

#3 So the Bible doesn’t mention gambling as a sin. So you are taking a personal conviction or preference and saying that it is a sin (see quote below in red). What Biblical passage(s) do you base your claim then that infers it is a sin then?

 

No, it is not a personal conviction.   The fruit of gambling precludes it from being a personal conviction.  It is a sin based on the overwhelming evidence of broken and destroyed lives.  Just because you haven't gotten that far, doesn't change anything.

 

You’re argument would be a lot better received I think if you began with the starting point that all things are possible (permissible) but not all things are beneficial (profitable or edify).  See 1 Cor. 6:12 or 1 Cor. 10:23 for example.

 

That would not apply in this case.

 

Simply saying something in the Bible or diverting from the actual discussion at hand ( doesn’t necessarily improve your argument or convince others brother. At least provide your logic and a way for people to look at what the Scripture says that supports said logic to read for themselves.

 

I haven't diverted the discussion and I have shown why it is a sin.  I have provided my logic ad nauseum.