Where is the Body of Christ in the Millennium?

[Sister]

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, 

Just a general comment:  Do you have any Scripture Support whatsoever for any of "your" postulates here....?

 

Can't get to each... a little busy today, but this should cover it...

 

 

I Enoch, Yes I've got a quite a few. 

I don't see in the scriptures where the body of Christ is taken up during the tribulation.

 

I should of been more precise.  We are talking out the tribulation of the last days, and yes it is "The Great Tribulation".

I cannot see where the "body of Christ" is taken before the tribulation, or during, except at the last trumpet.

 

 1 Corinthians 15:52   In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

There are only 7 trumpets, and the last is the 7th.  It's pretty clear.  I don't see what the confusion is about concerning this subject. The 7th trumpet is the coming.

 

 

Now just to be "clear", the Great tribulation period starts as soon as the false prophet shows himself.  The tribulation starts with the saints and because of the false prophet, not God, because we will refuse to conform to his new system, which involves denying Christ.

God knows this will happen, and allows it, and is warning us to be prepared,  because he is testing our loyalty to see if we truly do worship him when it comes to the crunch (our lives)

Take the Mark and live, or refuse it and die.

 

We will be given into the false prophets hands.  We cannot rebuke him, or have control of what the authorities will do to us, but some of us will be spared by being put in prison, or in hiding...God knows, because at the 7th (last) trumpet, those alive in Christ will be picked up.  If they supposedly were raptured, then what are they still doing here?

 

Now I when I speak of the saints, I am speaking of the true worshippers, God knows who they are.  They are the saints to be.....

I've got 8 pieces of proof, that will show you that the saints will be here during the tribulation, all must go through it.

 

Proof No. 1 -  Daniel 7:21   I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them

Proof No. 2 -  Daniel 7:25   And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Proof No. 3 -  Daniel 8:24   And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

 

Proof No. 4 -  Daniel 11:33   And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

                       Daniel 11:34   Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

                       Daniel 11:35   And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Proof No.5 Daniel 12:7   And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half;

                                                    and  when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

 

Proof No. 6 - Revelation 13:7   And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Proof No. 7 - Revelation 6:9   And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

                     Revelation 6:10   And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

                     Revelation 6:11   And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were,

                                                        should be fulfilled.

          

Proof No. 8 - Revelation 2:10   Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death,

                     and I will give thee a  crown of life.

 

To them back then, and the same message to us today.

1 Peter 4:12   Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

1 Peter 4:13   But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Sister

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

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Now, you DON’T KNOW that “Christ doesn't return to the "Earth" (Land)!” 

 

 

@ this particular Time, I do....  

 

(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

 

Any argument otherwise is an Argument from Ignorance (Fallacy).

 

“Where does the LORD reside?” but rather, “Where does the Lord reside?”

 

 

Are you saying Jesus is not GOD? Who CREATED the Universe and us?

 

(John 14:2) " In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."

 

Why would HE prepare a place for us and not take us there? 

 

Where is Jesus' permanent residence?  I too go alot of places: to the store, post office, my wife assigns me missions all over the place, pick up my kids from school et al, but in the end I always come home....that's where I "Reside".

 

Be careful not to miss the forest through the trees.

 

Now, one must ask oneself, “When is the first resurrection?” Is it JUST before the 7-year Tribulation

 

 

Well there is no 7 year "tribulation".  It's the "Great Tribulation" and starts in the midst of Daniel's 70th Week. (Dan 9:27, Matt 24:13) and lasts for 3.5 Years....

 

It's identified here: "Time and Times, and a Dividing of Time": Dan 7:25, Dan 12:7, Rev 12:14; "1260 Days": Rev 11:3, Rev 12:6 ; "42 Months": Rev 11:2, Rev 13:5.

 

"tribulation" (little "t") doesn't =  the "Great Tribulation".  It's an Equivocation (Fallacy).

 

Please show In Scripture, where the first 3.5 years (prior to the Abomination of Desolation) is Identified as "tribulation"....?

 

The Literal "first resurrection" is here....(Revelation 20:5) "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."  

It's irrelevant to "The Rapture".

 

 

Some have even suggested that the Patriarchs won’t be resurrected until AFTER the Millennium! (How crazy is that)?

 

 

Yep so crazy that it's absolutely TRUE!  And Scripture tells you so Specifically....

 

(Daniel 12:1-2) "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.  {2} And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

 

1. it says "thy people".  Who are Daniel's people?....the Jews.

2.  How can this passage be speaking to "The Church" when it ("The Church") wasn't revealed until Paul....

(Ephesians 3:1-8) "For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,  {2} If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:  {3} How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,  {4} Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)  {5} Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;  {6} That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:  {7} Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.  {8} Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;"

3. The Daniel Passage is clearly referring to the OT Saints, of which... Daniel is one.

4. And this is quite interesting...."at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."       When does this event occur? When is the Book opened?.....

(Revelation 20:11-12) "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.  {12} And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Daniel 12:1 is clearly saying that the OT Saints won't be Resurrected Until the Great White Throne.  Makes sense, to be judged on their works....why?  Well the OT Saints are not apart of the New Testament Dispensation.... they are under a Different Covenant.

 

Are Christians "The Church" to be Judged on their Works?  If so, I personally have absolutely no chance and NO HOPE!!

 

 

We're in Slam Dunk Territory here Retrobyter.

 

 

a “part A” and a “part B?” THAT’S a stretch! Neither 1 Thessalonians 4 nor 1 Corinthians 15 says ANYTHING about two separate times when the resurrection takes place!

 

 

It's "ONE" Rapture with 2 phases that are concurrent....

 

(1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.  {18} Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Verse 16 and 17 are concurrent.  Where are the DEAD Church members rising to?  The Clouds to meet the Lord.  Where do the Live Church Members meet the Lord?  In the Clouds.  With who?  With Them....who are "Them"?  The DEAD Church Members that were just RESURRECTED.

 

 

So, the “first resurrection” (spoken about in 1 Thes. 4:13-17 and 1 Cor. 15:50-57....

 

 

Please show the "first resurrection" in these passages.....?  Especially when it's not mentioned, Literally, until Rev Chapter 20 (SEE: Above)

 

 

And, when one compares these passages to Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 (the Olivet Discourse)

 

 

That Begs The Question....why would you compare them?  Unless you had a Pre-Conceived Bias that they were somehow related.  Those passages are talking to The Jews not "The Church".

 

How can these be talking to "The Church" when it wasn't revealed until it was Paul's Honor to do so in Ephesians 3:1-8 (SEE: Above) ??

 

 

So, tell me again why there is a “pretribulational rapture resurrection” and a “second coming resurrection” when they are both considered to be the “first resurrection?"

 

 

Considered by who?

 

One of the main reasons is the "Great Tribulation's/Revelations" purpose isn't for "The Church" (They already know that Christ is THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS).

 

Why the need to put Christ's Bride through the meat-grinder of the "Great Tribulation"?  

 

The mission is to drive The Jews to the Wall.....(Hosea 5:15) " I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early."

 

 

Please address these....

 

1. How is "The Bride/The Wife/The Church/Born Again Christians" @ The Marriage Supper in Heaven then accompanying HIM on HIS Return (Second Coming) while still being on the Earth during the Great Tribulation??

 

2.  Any other position than the Pre-Trib position has "The Church"/Born Again Christians going through the Great Tribulation....

Well 98% of "The Church"/Born Again Christians are DEAD (From Pentecost until now or when it's time).  So for "The Church" to go through the "Great Tribulation" on the Earth, They would have to be RESURRECTED and Walking around on the Earth so as to go through The Great Tribulation.

 

So unless you can show this scenario in Scripture, welcome to Pre-Trib.

 

3. 

 

(Matthew 24:36) " But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

 

(Mark 13:32) " But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

 

(Luke 12:40) " Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not."

 

(2 Peter 3:10) "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

If any "Christians" that have read Daniel Chapter 9:27 (Every "Christian" {other than newly converted} that I ever met is somewhat to Overtly aware of it) Observe or Hear of the Abomination of Desolation....They can more or less Mark their Calendars and Set Their Watches for Christ's Return....Whereby Scuttling the Above Passages along with another 8-10 that I didn't post.

Either the above passages are True/Correct...... OR..... Mid/Post Trib Rapture is True.  They are clearly Mutually Exclusive....BOTH can't be TRUE.

What's your choice?

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

 

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There are only 7 trumpets, and the last is the 7th.  It's pretty clear.  I don't see what the confusion is about concerning this subject. The 7th trumpet is the coming.

 

 

It's not.  "The last trump", "trump of GOD", does not = 7th Trumpet.  You're Equivocating (Fallacy).  To prove otherwise (and I already asked you this), show the Rapture or a Resurrection between....

 

(Revelation 11:15) "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

and here...

(Revelation 16:1) "And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth."

....in which they meet the LORD in the air?

 

 

Now just to be "clear", the Great tribulation period starts as soon as the false prophet shows himself.

 

 

Factually Incorrect.  The Great Tribulation Starts with the Abomination of Desolation (Daniel 9:27, Matt 24:15).  This doesn't preclude him "showing himself".  And to confirm a covenant "with many", strongly Implies...He "shows himself".

 

 

The tribulation starts with the saints

 

 

The Great Tribulation (not "tribulation") starts with the Abomination of Desolation in Jerusalem with The Jews (SEE: Matthew 24) the Olivet Discourse.

 

 

We will be given into the false prophets hands.

 

 

Factually Incorrect.  You're confusing "The Jews", "Tribulation Saints", and "The Church".  And I already posted this in reply to you....are you reading my responses?

 

(Revelation 13:7) "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Those "saints" were OVERCOME.

But Christ said about HIS Church...(Matthew 16:18) " And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Either you're right or Scripture is right; They are Mutually Exclusive....both can't be correct.

Moreover, John didn't recognize these "saints" and had to ask who they were...

(Revelation 7:13-14) "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?  {14} And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

 

And why would "The Church" be given over to the false prophet when we already know Jesus is: THE KING OF KINGS AND THE LORD OF LORDS??  So we can know it more?

 

 

I've got 8 pieces of proof, that will show you that the saints will be here during the tribulation, all must go through it.

 

 

Love, why are your first 5 "proofs", which AGAIN you are confusing "saints" with "The Church", coming from The Book of Daniel and not the New Testament??

That should tell you something right there.  "The Rapture" is a New Testament Doctrine.

 

The "Mystery of the Church" wasn't revealed until it was Paul's Honor in...

 

(Ephesians 3:1-8) "For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,  {2} If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:  {3} How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,  {4} Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)  {5} Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;  {6} That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:  {7} Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.  {8} Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;"

 

 

To them back then, and the same message to us today.

1 Peter 4:12   Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

1 Peter 4:13   But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

 

 

Paul's main mission was to convert the Gentiles

 

Peter's main mission was to....convert The Jews.

 

 

And please, can you address these...

 

1. How is "The Bride/The Wife/The Church/Born Again Christians" @ The Marriage Supper in Heaven then accompanying HIM on HIS Return (Second Coming) while still being on the Earth during the Great Tribulation??

2.  Any other position than the Pre-Trib position has "The Church"/Born Again Christians going through the Great Tribulation....

Well 98% of "The Church"/Born Again Christians are DEAD (From Pentecost until now or when it's time).  So for "The Church" to go through the "Great Tribulation" on the Earth, They would have to be RESURRECTED and Walking around on the Earth so as to go through The Great Tribulation.

So unless you can show this scenario in Scripture, welcome to Pre-Trib.

3.

(Matthew 24:36) " But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

(Mark 13:32) " But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

(Luke 12:40) " Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not."

(2 Peter 3:10) "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

 

If any "Christians" that have read Daniel Chapter 9:27 (Every "Christian" {other than newly converted} that I ever met is somewhat to Overtly aware of it) Observe or Hear of the Abomination of Desolation....They can more or less Mark their Calendars and Set Their Watches for Christ's Return....Whereby Scuttling the Above Passages along with another 8-10 that I didn't post.

 

Either the above passages are True/Correct...... OR..... Mid/Post Trib Rapture is True.  They are clearly Mutually Exclusive....BOTH can't be TRUE.

 

What's your choice?

[Enoch2021]

Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 (the Olivet Discourse)

 

 

Sorry missed this.  Matthew 24 and Mark 13 are the Olivet Discourse.  Luke 21 is not, As Evidenced By....

 

 

Luke's Account is in the Temple during the Day apparently between Jesus all the Disciples and followers....

(Luke 21:5-6) "And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,  {6}  As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

(Luke 21:9-12) "But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.  {10} Then said he unto them,  Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

{11}  And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.  {12}  BUT BEFORE ALL THESE, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake."

Matthew's Account (Olivet Discourse) is a Private Meeting on the Mount of Olives @ Night between Jesus, Peter, James, John, and Andrew.

(Matthew 24:7-9) " {7}  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.  {8}  All these are the beginning of sorrows.

{9}  THEN SHALL THEY deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake."

 

 

The same signs are stated in both accounts; However, after mentioning the same signs, Luke says "Before all these" then description; Matthew says "Then shall they".... After, then description.

Luke's Account............ Destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. 

Matthew's Account...... End of Days.

 

Moreover, The Pivotal/Key Event in the Olivet Discourse is the "Abomination of Desolation".  Please show The Abomination of Desolation in Luke.....?

[Marilyn C]

You are all having a big discussion on pre-mid & post again, & there are plenty of threads on that subject. However could I direct your thoughts to the main topic of this discussion which is -

 

`Where is the Body of Christ in the Millennium?`

 

As I can see it no one has given me any scriptures saying that we, the Body of Christ have come back to earth & then live again on the earth. Would any like to search the scriptures diligently to find -  `Where we will be in the Millennium?`

 

Blessings, Marilyn.

[Guest]

Where is the Body of Christ in the Millennium?`

 

 

With

 

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

 

Jesus

 

Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem.

 

The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.

 

In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not: and to Zion, Let not thine hands be slack.

 

The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing. Zephaniah 3:14-17

 

Beloved

 

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Revelation 20:4-5

 

(Zion~!)

 

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. Revelation 20:9

[Marilyn C]

Thank you Fresno Joe,

 

I do find you way of commenting very interesting. Now I see that you are replying to the question. Thank you. Now I`m not sure what you are saying for I see the Body of Christ written in the first part of your answer, then Israel, then those who have been beheaded from the tribulation. The word `saints` as we know is used for Israel, believers from the Gentiles & again for the Body of Christ. Thus we need to know what God`s purpose & promises for each of those groups to see who is being talked about.

 

Blessings, Marilyn. 

Edited November 2, 2014 by Marilyn C

[Guest]

I'm not sure what you are saying for I see the Body of Christ written in the first part of your answer, then Israel, then those who have been beheaded from the tribulation.....

 

The word 'saints' as we know is used for Israel, believers from the Gentiles & again for the Body of Christ....

 

Thus we need to know what God's purpose & promises for each of those groups to see who is being talked about....

 

 

Beloved You Are Teachable So, Is It First Straight To Heaven

 

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. Revelation 21:1-3

 

Or Is It First A Thousand Years Reign Down In Old Jerusalem On Old Earth

 

I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,

 

And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth. Isaiah 62:6-7

 

With The Beloved, The Remnant, His Jews, Israel

 

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

 

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 

In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

 

And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;

 

The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;

 

All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart. Zechariah 12:9-14

 

And Then Forever In The New Jerusalem In The New Earth And Heaven

 

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. Revelation 21:1-3

 

~

 

The Choice Is Still Yours And The Readers To Decide

 

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

 

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:28-29

 

~

 

As I See It Dear Sister Only Two Things Are Important But "Hidden" Within This Discussion

 

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1 Thessalonians 4:16

 

Do You Believe In The Resurrection Of The Saints?

 

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

 

And In The Restoration Of Israel?

 

And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. Jeremiah 23:3

 

~

 

?

 

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 

As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

 

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:26-29

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Daughter Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Sister]

 

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It's not.  "The last trump", "trump of GOD", does not = 7th Trumpet.  You're Equivocating (Fallacy).  To prove otherwise (and I already asked you this), show the Rapture or a Resurrection between....

 

Enoch 2021

 

In the book of Revelations, "revelations" means to "reveal".

So if one seeking and reads;

1 Corinthians 15:52   In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

He will not know what "the last trump" is, until he seeks further and comes to the book of Revelations, where it is revealed exactly how many trumpets will be blown.

the answer is seven.  So now it's clear, the "last trump" is the "seventh trump", because there are only seven trumpets.

The angel blows the trumpet (sounds the alarm) each in order, and then pours out the vials.

 

Revelation 8:2   And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

Revelation 8:6   And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
Revelation 15:1   And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
Revelation 15:6   And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
Revelation 15:7   And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
Revelation 15:8   And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
Revelation 16:1   And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Revelation 10:7   But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Revelation 11:15   And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

Now it's clear.  There are seven trumpets, and the seventh is the last one.  It states clearly, this is the resurrection of the saints.

The 7th trumpet is at the end of the tribulation, not the beginning.  You are saying they are raised at the beginning of the  tribulation.

 

 

This subject is about where the saints will be during the Millennium.  Just before the Millennium is the tribulation, not just any tribulation but a Great tribulation on the whole world.  This great tribulation starts with the saints.  They are going to be tested now for their faith.  They can chose to save their lives, or be killed.  For refusing the "Mark of the Beast" They will be hungry, poor, desolate and considered outcasts.  They cannot buy or sell. They will lose their homes, and everything they own.

Because of this situation, many end up taking the mark because of pressure, but the faithful will be strong and resist,  It says they will be killed.   God will revenge the world for all their evil and ungodliness, now comes tribulation on the world from God.  On all those who took the mark of the beast.  The wrath of God starts now with seven angels having seven trumpets.  Each trumpet happens in stages until the coming.  These are the signs in their order.

 

Now, the church on this earth, which is made up of the saints, but it has some bad saints in there.  The enemy has infiltrated "the church" with false doctrines, and has his workers of iniquity within there perverting the truth.  Not only will the world be divided, but within the kingdom here, the bad have to go, for the sake of the good.  Many "christians" have come in through the back door, and not the front door.  Now is the time to sift that last generation.

So God will set a test, to see who the true worshipers are. 

The true worshipers will be ready, well informed, and prepared to not give their allegiance to another, even if it means losing their life.  They will do this, because of love, and they know the outcome if they make the wrong move.  They are not in the dark, they have been shown.  They have oil in their lamps.  Fuel.

The others will be not so prepared.  They have been fed sweet smoothing words to relax, and not worry, everything will be ok, because they will be spared.  Can you not see the enemy has done this?

Now is the time we should be prepared for what is coming, and not be like the 5 foolish virgins.  They had no oil in their lamps because there was no knowledge.

If we are not prepared, the flood is going to sweep us away.  We should be prepared to make that sacrifice, just like Christ and the apostles did.  We follow in their footsteps.  Because God allows for us to go through this, is not a punishment.  Was Jesus punished?  or the apostles when they were killed?  No, its a refining process.

 

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Fresno Joe,

 

I do so hope & pray that I am teachable otherwise I`m hardening my heart to the Holy Spirit. So thank you for your good comments, & yes to both.

`Do You Believe In The Resurrection Of The Saints? And In The Restoration Of Israel?`

 

Blessings, bro, Marilyn.