dscapp Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 the end is already known by our creator so free will is an illusion. I didn't used to believe that, but having spent a great deal of time in the Bible, that is the conclusion I have come to. I believe free will is an illusion too. I personally think that God's foreknowledge and our free will is the most complicated topic in the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscapp Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 in the same way a mother knows that her child is going to sneak a piece of candy and then lie about it. the child still has the freedom to NOT sneak the candy, and the freedom to tell the truth, even though mom KNOWS what her kid is going to do before he does it. Yeah but we're talking about God, not a mother from North Dakota or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2014 God has the ability to look through time as we know it and see what our choices will be. We, on the other hand, had not made the choices yet, so we don't. Just because He knows and we don't does not exclude the fact that we will still be faced with a choice and the options that come with a choice. People try to make this far too difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscapp Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 God has the ability to look through time as we know it and see what our choices will be. We, on the other hand, had not made the choices yet, so we don't. Just because He knows and we don't does not exclude the fact that we will still be faced with a choice and the options that come with a choice. People try to make this far too difficult. But if God knows we are going to make bad choices in life, why doesn't he do anything to stop us. Why does the great white throne exist if he already knows who is going to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 in the same way a mother knows that her child is going to sneak a piece of candy and then lie about it. the child still has the freedom to NOT sneak the candy, and the freedom to tell the truth, even though mom KNOWS what her kid is going to do before he does it. and there are muslims who repent and turn to Christ. the majority will not. but they ALL have the choice that only a few will make. I'm just having a hard time accepting God's foreknowledge while giving us free will. You will have to bare with me. God knows who will accept him and who won't. There is a difference between foreknowledge and foreordaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscapp Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 God knows who will accept him and who won't. There is a difference between foreknowledge and foreordaining. Yeah but if God knows before they're even born then free will doesn't exist. Foreknowledge, free will and foreordaining are three different subjects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cog Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 143 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/09/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2014 You have to have a basic understanding of God and eternity to see that there is no determinism or predestiny in the way you are thinking. I can try to explain it to you, if you like, but it would take me awhile to write it out, and I do not want to go to the trouble if you are not interested. The short answer, though, I have already posted above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 dscapp, it IS like the mother from north dakota "or something"... just like that woman is a mother, so God is our Father. his knowing what we will choose does not eliminate choice. and your question as to why God wouldn't step into stop us from making bad choices? well, that brings us back to the same thing. He won't FORCE us to make better choices, because He would rather us make bad choices than to force Himself on us. that is the definition of free will. through my eyes, there's no illusion at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscapp Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 You have to have a basic understanding of God and eternity to see that there is no determinism or predestiny in the way you are thinking. I can try to explain it to you, if you like, but it would take me awhile to write it out, and I do not want to go to the trouble if you are not interested. The short answer, though, I have already posted above. I'm interested. Please explain. He won't FORCE us to make better choices, because He would rather us make bad choices than to force Himself on us. that is the definition of free will. through my eyes, there's no illusion at all. Ok, he won't force us to make better choices, but he sits back and watches? An no the mother and God are not the same, the mother isn't omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 God knows who will accept him and who won't. There is a difference between foreknowledge and foreordaining. Yeah but if God knows before they're even born then free will doesn't exist. Foreknowledge, free will and foreordaining are three different subjects. There is a difference between God knowing what is in the future and God controlling future events. God did not decide what choices people will make, but he knows what they will choose to do in their free will. There are fixed events that God has set. But God knowing what wiill happen doesn't mean that no one has free will. God knew what you would choose to eat for breakfast or if you would even eat breakfast. But that knowledge doesn't force you to make any particular choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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