Wildstar Posted August 9, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 218 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/07/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2014 All past sins are under the blood, not all future willful sins. I would also point out that if Jesus sacrifice is an atonement for the whole world, the whole world would be saved. It is capable of washing away the sins of the whole world, but God only cleanses those who choose to follow Jesus and continue to follow Jesus. The law requires all sin to be punished by death. First all sin gets put onto the sacrifice by the proper authority. Then all sin gets blotted out through the bleeding out. There is nothing else after that. Its a statute forever by the law of God. 1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. All sin was included in his sacrifice and you dont 'nail' new sins onto his cross by confessing or something. God has already covered these. Despite having to 'wash' your feet, or as you say, your future sins. John 13:10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.” I am not in disagreement that we cant lose our salvation... but this is because people do not endure or their faiths pervert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I would say you are taking the scripture in Hebrews out of context. Back to Hebrews. It most certainly is talking about Christians. How do I know that? Lets move down a little further. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28,29 The man had been sanctified by God through the blood of Jesus. He was a born again Christian. I couldn't care less what certain commentaries may claim about this passage. If they say this was an unsaved person, they are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 You are made clean when you are initially saved Wildstar. If you avoid future willful sins, you never have to worry about being lost. If you do become defiled through willful sins, you confess them and are cleansed. Again, I want to make it clear that the chosen of God will remain saved. He has pre-destined some to be vessels of honor, and they will ultimately be saved. It is just that we are not capable of knowing who those people are. As such, we can think ourselves to be in that number, but fall away. I know a lady right now that lived for Jesus for years and now has completely walked away. If she is one of the chosen, she will come back. If not, she will be lost eternally, even though she one time called herself a born again Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildstar Posted August 9, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 218 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/07/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2014 I would say you are taking the scripture in Hebrews out of context. Back to Hebrews. It most certainly is talking about Christians. How do I know that? Lets move down a little further. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28,29 The man had been sanctified by God through the blood of Jesus. He was a born again Christian. I couldn't care less what certain commentaries may claim about this passage. If they say this was an unsaved person, they are wrong. I dont really see your point in this post, but we may have different understandings / views about something so this is inevitable lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I would say you are taking the scripture in Hebrews out of context. Back to Hebrews. It most certainly is talking about Christians. How do I know that? Lets move down a little further. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28,29 The man had been sanctified by God through the blood of Jesus. He was a born again Christian. I couldn't care less what certain commentaries may claim about this passage. If they say this was an unsaved person, they are wrong. I dont really see your point in this post, but we may have different understandings / views about something so this is inevitable lol I was replying to Dscapp. I was on a computer that wouldn't allow me to use the quote function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscapp Posted August 9, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 What do you constitute as walking away from God? Sinning? If so, I agree. If walking away from God, is throwing away your faith then no. I do believe you can become unsaved. It's blasphemy against the holy spirt. Willfully sinning is walking away from God, but willful sin does not effect your salvation. It simply quenches the Holy Spirit. I do believe you can be saved for a time, and then become unsaved. The Holy Spirit doesn't come down from heaven to indwell your body, then when you sin the holy spirit leaves your body and goes back to heaven. And then when you ask for forgiveness and repent, the Holy then comes down from heaven again and proceeds to enter your body again. That is just not biblical and is quite silly. The Holy Spirit does not leave and enter your body over and over and over again. Do you understand what I'm saying here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 What do you constitute as walking away from God? Sinning? If so, I agree. If walking away from God, is throwing away your faith then no. I do believe you can become unsaved. It's blasphemy against the holy spirt. Willfully sinning is walking away from God, but willful sin does not effect your salvation. It simply quenches the Holy Spirit. I do believe you can be saved for a time, and then become unsaved. The Holy Spirit doesn't come down from heaven to indwell your body, then when you sin the holy spirit leaves your body and goes back to heaven. And then when you ask for forgiveness and repent, the Holy then comes down from heaven again and proceeds to enter your body again. That is just not biblical and is quite silly. The Holy Spirit does not leave and enter your body over and over and over again. Do you understand what I'm saying here. The Holy Spirit doesn't have to leave heaven to enter your body. The Holy Spirit has been in the world since Pentecost. Again, as was the case with the other things you said, you cannot prove my position is not Biblical. Biblically, a demonic spirit can enter your body, be cast out, and return with seven spirits worse than the first one. Of course the Spirit of God can depart from you and return. You can grieve him away because of your behavior. Why shouldn't he be able to return again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscapp Posted August 9, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 Of course the Spirit of God can depart from you and return. No, he can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted August 9, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,710 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,526 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted August 9, 2014 The thing is Dscapp, I don't care if you want to avoid going around in circles till our hair falls out. I don't care about arguing endlessly either. At the same time, if all you are going to do is say my position is not Biblical, I will just say I stand by what I said and it is Biblical, and we will have gotten nowhere. It is a complete waste of time. I have thoroughly studies this topic, and have debated it ever since I joined WB 10 years ago. Well said I couldn't of said it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Of course the Spirit of God can depart from you and return. No, he can't. Yes he can. Can I get another, "No he can't?" When you first started this thread, and you said it was going to be fun, I was wondering what you were thinking. Don't you know that people on both sides of this topic have strong feelings, and this kind of thread can turn personal? I know you are still new to WB, and you probably figured it would be easy to prove your position. I used to think the same thing, but from the opposite side of the OSAS view. How wrong I was. People have been indoctrinated in their beliefs, either in favor of OSAS or against. They have come to believe that everyone on the opposite side is a heretic. I have come to the place where I can accept that this is just one of those issues that we will be divided over. I can live with that, and sleep just fine rejecting OSAS. Can you live with the fact you won't ever be able to win everyone over to your side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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