Is the Rapture Biblical?

[S.T. Ranger]

[S.T. Ranger]

It was, in fact, (in a relative sense only), these very afflictions and tribulations that made the Thessalonians worthy to enter the Kingdom of God. Notice it:

"... for your endurance and faith in all yourpersecutions and afflictions with which you are bearing ... to deem you worthy of the kingdom of God,

Sorry, but this is works-based error: their tribulations did not make them worthy to enter into the Kingdom of God, Christ made them worthy to enter into the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 1:12-14

King James Version (KJV)

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

For anyone who has suffered very little from, disease, heartbreak, financial distress, persecution, pain and suffering, and the like, it is difficult for such a one to put himself in the shoes of the Thessalonians. Their affliction and suffering was great. Although they were very faithful to God, there was much they did not know. They didn’t have the advantage of the New Testament Greek Scriptures as we do today, with the exception of the four gospel accounts which were already in circulation according to some experts. I doubt that many Gentiles could read the Old Testament Hebrew Scriptures. They had "Paul" the great teacher, and his marvelous display of miracles and works, but little else to teach them.

Hmm, they just had Paul, eh? lol

Wish I had that "disadvantage." An Apostle that penned inspired Scripture? Sure.

Are you forgetting that they had the Epistles Paul sent? Not just one...but two.

And are you forgetting that they had the indwelling Spirit of God?

Amazing.

So Paul filled them with assurance of Christ’s return to this Earth, the resurrection of the dead, and their entry into God’s Kingdom. They believed, because of their severe suffering and persecution, that they were already in that time. Notice how Paul inspired them in his first epistle;

"... how you turn back to God from idols, to be slaving for the living and true God, and to bewaiting for His Son out of the heavens ..."

"... we were to each one of you, as a father to his own children, consoling and comforting you and attesting unto you to be walking worthily of God,Who calls you into His own kingdom and glory

"For who is our expectation, or joy, or wreath of glorying? Or is it not even you, in front of our Lord Jesus,in His PRESENCE

"Now may the Lord cause you to increase and superabound in love for one another and for all, even as we also for you, to establish your hearts unblamable in holiness in front of our God and Father,in the PRESENCE of our Lord Jesus with all His saints.

"... we, the living, who are surviving to thePRESENCE of the Lord ... meet the Lord in the air"

"... may your unimpaired spirit and soul and body be kept blameless in thePRESENCE of our Lord Jesus Christ!

These six Scriptures ALL deal with the second coming, the Day of the Lord, the Unveiling of Jesus Christ.

Stringing verses together apart from their context is going to be a waste of time for both of us.

Each will have to be viewed in their separate context.

We have emphasized the great persecution and tribulation that the Thessalonians were going through in Paul’s first letter to them.

Who is we?

And I will pause there because I would greatly desire to know the answer.

Continued...

[S.T. Ranger]

And to encourage them, Paul mentions the "Presence of the Lord" in all five chapters of I Thessalonians.

That doesn't negate the fact that Paul teaches about the Rapture, lol.

His encouragement is "Don't be fearful that the dead in Christ will miss this resurrection" in the first Epistle, and "Don't be fearful that the Day of the Lord has come" in the second.

He distinguishes between the two by telling them "I have already told you that you will go through tribulation, so relax," and, "the coming of Christ and our gathering to Him cannot possibly have happened because I told you there would be a falling away and Antichrist revealed, which has to take place before the Day of the Lord occurs."

In other words, if the Day of the Lord had occurred...so too would these things have occurred: the coming of Christ and our gathering to Him, the falling away, and the removal of the Restrainer and the revealing of Antichrist.

Through the years they became labored, distressed, and ill at ease. So in II Thes. the first chapter (as soon as Paul gives a brief introduction), Paul again praises them for "bearing" these relentless hardships and afflictions (Verses 4-5), and then he immediatelycomforts and consoles them by letting them know that they will receive ease [rest] from these sufferings and afflictions. But when?

That should be fairly clear when we see the timeline of events he then proceeds to give.

A popular argument thought to be a "magic bullet" is that it is at Christ's Coming that we receive rest. That is in error for at least one good reason:

2 Thessalonians 1:6-10

King James Version (KJV)

1 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Now when do unbelievers receive their punishment of everlasting destruction? At the Return of Christ?

Or at the Great White Throne?

The latter.

Secondly, when do you think Paul is going to "rest" concerning tribulation caused by unbelievers? When Christ returns? Or does he and his writing companions already have peace concerning the tribulation they are going through?

That is the purpose of his teaching, my friend.

If ever there was to be such a thing as a rapture, look when it would have to take place.

If?

So you doubt Paul's teaching that the Church is going to be caught up? This is something I hope you clarify in the first response.

As to when it would have to take place, what we can say with confidence is that it cannot take place at His Return...because this leaves no physical believers.

Furthermore, we see that Paul comforts them by stating they are not appointed to wrath (contrasted with the tribulation they are going through), and tells them that the coming of Christ and our gathering to Him had not happened, because when it does happen...both dead and living believers in Christ will be resurrected.

Next verse: "... with US [Paul and ALL the saints, I Thes. 3:13], at‘the day of the Lord’, I Cor. 1:7-8], of the Lord Jesus from heaven [Mat. 24:30, Rev. 19:11, I Thes. 4:16] with His powerful messengers [Matt. 24:31, I Thes. 4:16, Rev. 11:15, Rev. 19:14] in flaming fire [Rev. 19:12], dealing out vengeance to those who are not acquainted with God and those who are not obeying the evangel of our Lord Jesus Christ--who shall incur the justice of eonian extermination from the face of the Lord and from the glory of His strength [Rev. 11:18, 19:15] whenever He may be coming to be glorified in His saints [including the saints in the ecclesias of Judea whom the Thessalonians imitated, I Thes. 2:14, also, I Thes. 2:19, 3:13, 4:15, 5:23, Mat. 24:31, I Cor. 15:22,51-53, Rev. 11:18, I Pet. 1:4-7, 13, 2:1, 5:4, II Pet. 3: 9-13] and to be marveled at in all who believe [that’s All ] (seeing that our testimony to you was believed) in that DAY"

Again, you will only waste your time quoting a series of proof-texts outside of their respected context.

Here are a few you use to teach that the Rapture happens when the Lord returns:

1 Thessalonians 3:13

King James Version (KJV)

13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Matthew 24:30

King James Version (KJV)

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 19:11

King James Version (KJV)

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

1 Thessalonians 4:16

King James Version (KJV)

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

...and only the last is a Rapture quote.

Now show me in the context from which these others were pulled...the resurrection of the Body of Christ?

I can already tell you...no such passage exists in Scripture. To say that passages like Matthew 24-25, or the Gospel teachings of Christ teach a resurrection at His Return cannot be shown.

But you are welcome to try.

Verse 7 is absolute proof that Paul and the Thessalonians are to receive their ease and rest from persecution and affliction "at" the unveiling of Jesus Christ.

Sorry, Paul is simply stating the same thing he states through both Epistles..."Relax."

So it can’t be a "secret" rapture because ALL the saints will be in it.

Sorry, but unbelievers, those left behind (as opposed to those taken as described in regards to passages actually dealing with the Second Coming) at the Rapture...will know nothing about what actually happens, because 1) they cannot understand the spiritual things of God and 2) they will have already refused relationship with God and will come under strong delusion, which means, in other words...it will be a secret to them. lol

Continued...

Edited December 24, 2014 by S.T. Ranger

[S.T. Ranger]

The second witness as to when the uncircumcision gentile saints (specifically, the Corinthians in Greece) were expecting Christ to return for them:

"I am thanking my God always concerning you over the grace of God which is being given you in Christ Jesus, for in everything are you enriched in Him, in all expression and all knowledge, according as the testimony of Christ was confirmed among you, so that you are not deficient in any grace, awaiting the unveiling of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who will be confirming you also until the consummation, unimpeachable in the DAY OF OUR LORD

If you don't mind. please show what translation you are using.

Like many passages, it is a given that the Lord will preserve His Saints to the end.

Is Paul telling that they need to do this, or the Lord does this?

And again, this is not a Rapture passage.

Notice that all this takes place "at the UNVEILING," "in the DAY OF THE LORD."

Notice, rather, that it is already taking place, and that it is the Lord that is confirming us, not something we do so we can make it to the end of the Tribulation.

The very fact that Paul says the Corinthians will be "AWAITING" the unveiling of our Lord and the day of the Lord for these things to happen is proof positive, that these things had not already occurred three and one-half or seven years earlier.

I am not in the Tribulation and I am AWAITING the Lord. lol

Not much in the way of proving the Rapture takes place at the end of the Tribulation. And we haven't even gotten to anything very specific yet.

Likewise, Paul would not have told them that they would be confirmed "unimpeachable in the day of our Lord" if they were already confirmed unimpeachable seven years earlier.

These Scriptures are very clear as to whenthese things happen--at theunveiling and in the day of the Lord

That's funny, because when I read Matthew 24-25 (and parallel passages) as well as Revelation...there is no resurrection mentioned at the time of the Lord's Return, apart from the Tribulation Martyrs.

Secondly, as already mentioned...this would mean everyone left alive (because no unbeliever (Tare, Chaff, evil tree) will enter the Kingdom, any Kingdom Scripture teaches about, whether spiritual or physical) would be glorified, which leaves no-one to account for those that rebel against God. It can't be the redeemed themselves, this would cause to much conflict with eternal security, nullifies the promises of God which have not yet been fuffilled, and is not a serious consideration for anyone that embraces the millennial view.

Third, we see in Revelation that only Jews and Gentiles are mentioned.

Fourth, we have the Lord's Word that we will not go through the Tribulation:

Revelation 3:10

King James Version (KJV)

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

And unless you know of another hour of trial that will come upon all the world, then it is pretty safe to say that the Lord is speaking about the Tribulation that the rest of this Book goes on to describe in detail.

You just do not have any specific Scripture that deals with the Lord's Return that includes the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church.

Continued...

[S.T. Ranger]

Remember that Paul told the Thessalonians that they would

"... rest, with us, AT the unveiling of the Lord Jesus Christ from heaven ..." (II Thes. 1:7).

We will indeed be at rest from people troubling at that point, lol, but we still have to deal with end time events as Scripture reveals it. And the problems that arise out of even a well presented Post-Trib or a-millennial view are enough to be sure that they are untenable.

Your magic bullet doesn't reconcile the problems we will discuss concerning a Post-Tribulation Rapture.

Paul told Timothy the same thing. Paul told Timothy to pursue, endure, and contend, as the Thessalonians also did,

"... unto THE ADVENT of our Lord Christ Jesus, which ... will be showing; He is King of kings and Lord of lords ..."

The only advent in which Jesus is called "King of kings and Lord of lords" is when He return to earth to do battle in the Day of the Lord,

"And on His cloak and on His thigh He has a name written: ‘King of kings and Lord of lords" (Rev. 19:15).

So where is the Rapture said to take place when He returns? The only resurrection mentioned at allis the First Resurrection of Revelation 20.

That's it.

And when did Peter teach that we would receive rest and glory for enduring our testing?

"... that the testing of your faith, much more precious than gold which is perishing, yet, being tested by fire, may be found for applause and glory and honor AT THE UNVEILING OF JESUS CHRIST" (I Pet. 1:7).

Repeating an argument doesn't reinforce it. You have a long ways to go to discredit a pre-tribulation Rapture and to support a post-tribulation Rapture.

So here are numerous witnesses as to the time of the delivery from this world’s ills for both the Jews and the Gentiles. And none of them occurs at any so called "secret rapture."

You haven't presented anything to deny a pre-tribulation rapture, so your victory dance is just a little premature.

In all honesty, let’s ask ourselves a question:

If the two Scriptural references in II Thes. 1 and I Cor. 1 had used the word "rapture" or "snatched away" instead of the word "unveiling," would not rapturists use these Scriptures as proof for their secret rapture?"

Of course, lol. Why do you think we point out the fact that Paul teaches the Church will be caught up in 1 Thessalonians 4?

But it's a weak argument. This is like saying "Don't you think that those who believe in eternal security would use (fill in any verse that mentions salvation) if they said eternal salvation?" lol

And again, it seems as though you question that there is a Rapture at all, which discredits you from a serious engagement in a discussion about the Rapture, as far as I am concerned: no-one can deny Paul teaches that the Church will be caught up.

And we see the same thing occur with the Two Witnesses. You may deny that Paul saying the Church will be resurrected as a whole, whether alive or dead, and that the Church will be caught up in the air to meet Christ in the clouds, but you cannot deny the actual description of the same thing occurring with the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11.

And you will be hard pressed to make the Rapture occur at the First Resurrection, because this is a thousand years before the resurrection of the dead which takes place after this world passes out of existence.

Well then, I firmly believe that we have absolute Scriptural proof that these things do nottake place at any "secret rapture," seeing as God’s Word plainly states, "AT the UNVEILING" and "in the DAY OF THE LORD"!

Well, if that is sufficient for you, that's great, but I myself could not accept such "proof" as reasonable, but see it as quite a bit of false argument, Scripture stringing, and neglectful of dealing with the problems that arise from the views that would have to be embraced if the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is denied.

These things happen "at" the unveiling of Jesus Christ in the day of the Lord, not years "before."

Great. Now where is the Scripture?

Where is there ever a mention of a resurrection when Christ Returns which is not the First Resurrection of Revelation 20?

Continued...

[missmuffet]

Yes,it is Biblical. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18;1 Corinthians 15:50-54

[S.T. Ranger]

What does the little word "at" mean? Webster’s, at,prep., in; on; near; by. It does not mean, "before," "long before," "seven years before," "three and one-half years before" nor does it mean "after."

Seriously? You are going to try to define Biblical language...with Webster's?

Here is the usage according to Strong's:

The KJV translates Strongs G1722 in the following manner: in (1,902x), by (163x), with (140x), among (117x), at (113x), on (62x), through (39x), misc (264x).

Consider:

1 Peter 1:7

King James Version (KJV)

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

This has nothing to do with persevering through the Tribulation, but extends to the believers faith throughout the course of his walk with the Lord. Understand?

So to use it in a context which is specific to Rapture timing is not accurate. Peter does not have the rapture in view, but the faith of the believer. As far as the believer is concerned, regardless of tribulation or Tribulation, he makes clear...

1 Peter 1:3-5

King James Version (KJV)

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Now what salvation do we look for? The redemption of our bodies...that's it. Being delivered from a cursed world and cursed flesh. Because we are born again, our inheritance is sure, incorruptible, undefiled, it will not fade away and it is reserved in Heaven for us. We are kept by the power of God through...faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Your proof text for a resurrection when Christ returns...

1 Peter 1:7

King James Version (KJV)

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

...speaks about our faith...not our resurrection.

 

Outside of the realm of religion, we seldom have problems understanding simple words like "at."

So you feel pre-trib rapturists are harmful and religious, yet you call them friends.

Amazing.

So if one is teaching a doctrine that cannot be supported and comes into conflict with other teachings of Scripture which are really very simple and basic concepts, then they are harmful and religious.

I, and I think both Peter and Paul would agree with you wholeheartedly, lol.

 

Try this: "Atwhat time did the train arrive? It arrived atbefore it arrived." If language can be twisted like that, maybe there is a secret rapture.

Try this: Paul does not teach that the Church will be caught up in the air to meet the Lord in the Clouds.

If doctrine can be twisted like that then maybe there is no Rapture.

So let's see: Pre-Trib believers are harmful, religious, and twists Scripture. But they can/cannot still be called "friends." lol

 

Just after this revelation, Paul instructs us that,

"... all may be saying the same thing, and there may be no schisms among you, but you may be attuned to the same mind and to the same opinion

What revelation in 1 Corinthians 12 are you referring to?

 

There are things in the Scriptures that I don’t believe anyone alive fully understands.

I am not sure I would agree with that, because while no one person may understand all things, collectively I do not believe there is anything in the revelation God gave us that is not meant to be understood.

Unless it is a mystery.

 

However, the teaching regarding when the resurrection of the saints takes place, is not difficult. In chapter 15 Paul tells us that this resurrection takes place at the last trump. Here he tells us that it will be at the "unveiling," at the "consummation" of this age, when "the day of the Lord" is ushered in. It is in perfect harmony with Matt. 24 and the book of Revelation.

So because you find last trump in Paul's statement here you make that the Seventh Trumpet Judgment.

Let me illustrate how adopting someone else's argument can get you in trouble: the Seventh Trumpet Judgment occurs within the tribulation, lol...which means that if you try to make this the time of the Rapture you are...

...a Mid-tribulation believer.

Is that the position you want to maintain in this conversation? I hope so, this just makes it easier for me, perhaps not to get through to you, but for those that might read this it will help them understand why they don't want to adopt the view of someone else rather than carefully examining Scripture so they don't present an argument that reveals a person doesn't even know what kind of believer they are. This is one of the funniest arguments post-tribbers offer, lol.

Now, understand that that after the "Last Trumpet Judgment there still remains the Seven Vial Judgments. You can argue that this...

Revelation 11:15

King James Version (KJV)

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

...though thought to herald the end of the Tribulation, can be seen that it does not because we still have the rest of the Judgments to go.

This...

Revelation 16:17

King James Version (KJV)

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

...heralds the end of the Tribulation.

If you notice in Revelation 11, we see the Two Witnesses Raptured which marks the beginning of the beasts assault on the earth. Basically...the middle of the Tribulation, for their ministry is forty two months, and Antichrist is given forty two months. This happens within the Second Woe, the Third Woe (I believe) is the Seventh Trumpet Judgment. I believe that the Seventh Trumpet contains the Seven Vials, just as the Seventh Seal contains the Seven Trumpet Judgments. Regardless of one's personal views about that, what we can say is that...

...this is not the end of the Tribulation, thus to place the Rapture here requires one to convert to the Mid-Trib view.

Continued...

Edited December 24, 2014 by S.T. Ranger

[S.T. Ranger]

Yes,it is Biblical. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18;1 Corinthians 15:50-54

I agree, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 is definitely Biblical.

God bless.

[Guest Teditis]

Rapture or not, God's elect will see Heaven and that's where we find our Joy.

[S.T. Ranger]

Our Lord does not come a second time TWICE to gather "ALL His saints"

That is true. You cold have saved yourself a lot of trouble by understanding that the Pre-Trib view does not teach two Second Comings. It is only when Christ returns to the earth that we consider it a Second Coming. The Rapture does not necessitate a physical return to the earth, because in view is the resurrection and catching away of the Church, rather than the Lord's Return to establish the Millennial Kingdom.

I think it can be established that when He returns...we will already be with Him.

And again, the only resurrection associated with the Lord's Return is that of the Tribulation Martyrs. Two primary reasons to see only those who die in the Tribulation raised at this time is 1) because they did not receive the mark of the beast nor worship the beast (which is specific to Tribulation events, and cannot be confused with the general spirit of antichrist which is already in the world) and 2) because it is necessary that there be physical believers who have descendants to fulfill the rebellion of men against God at the end of the Millennial Kingdom.

 

(I Thes. 3:13). Rapturists can "reduce" from the Scriptures, they can "deduce" from the Scriptures, but they can’t "produce" from the Scriptures a single statement that says there are two resurrection, at two different times, for two different sets of saints, and that our Lord is going to accomplish this feat by returning a second time,TWICE!

Thanks for making this so easy, really.

And what your denigration of other believers has to do with anything Paul has written...I don't know.

Consider more than two resurrections (in regards to event, not type):

1.Revelation 11:11-12

King James Version (KJV)

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

2. Revelation 20:4-5

King James Version (KJV)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

3. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

As far as...

 

for two different sets of saints, and that our Lord is going to accomplish this feat by returning a second time,TWICE!

...still more false argument to try to impress people with many words that have no substance. Kind of a "well without water thing," don't you think?

At the very least nothing I said implied your charge here. Never said there were two different saints, but have consistently said that everyone in the Church is raised, living or dead. And I don't know how the Lord can return a second time...twice. Again, failure to recognize that the Lord does not return at the Rapture leads to false arguments like this.

 

Were Peter and Paul at two different poles regarding the second coming of our Lord?

Sometimes Peter and Paul, as well as Christ and Peter...were at odds. And both Christ and Paul rebuked Peter for his error.

Let's not forget that.

As far as in regards to the Second Coming, it is likely Paul may have had to straighten Peter out on that as well, lol.

 

QUOTES FROM PETER’S TEACHING ON CHRIST’S RETURN

I Peter 1:2-4, "May grace and peace be multiplied to you! Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ [did I say Peter? This almost sounds like PAUL doesn’t it?], Who, according to His vast mercy, regenerates us into a living EXPECTATION, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from among the dead, for the enjoyment of an ALLOTMENT incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, KEPT IN THE HEAVENS FOR YOU ..." [This sounds like Paul, doesn’t it]? Continuing:

... ready to be revealed in the LAST ERA ... (Ver 6)

... AT THE UNVEILING of Jesus Christ ... (Ver 8)

... AT THE UNVEILING of Jesus Christ ... (Ver 13

... manifested IN THE LAST TIMES because of you ... (Ver 20)

... your faith and EXPECTATION is to be in God ... (Ver. 21)

... God in the day of VISITATION ... (2:12)

... concerning the EXPECTATION in you ... (3:15)

... Now the CONSUMMATION of all is near ... (4:7)

... exulting in the UNVEILING of His glory ... (4:13)

... a participant of the GLORY ABOUT TO BE REVEALED ... (5:1)

... Who calls you into His EONIAN GLORY in Christ ... (5:10)

Again, you wasted your time, because when it comes to the Second Coming, by the time Peter writes his Epistles he would have surely understood the mystery of the Rapture. However...he does not teach about it. Only Paul and Christ make specific mention of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

All of the New Testament writers refer to Christ's return, however, Paul was the only one which spoke of this Mystery, and in fact, the only one that went into detail concerning the resurrection of the Church.

And you make it sound like a great coincidence in similarity when Paul and Peter are talking about the same Christ.

Amazing.

 

... into the EONIAN KINGDOM of our Lord ... II Pet. 1:11)

... we make known to you the power and PRESENCE of our Lord ... (Ver 16)

... in the DAY OF JUDGING ... (2:10)

... the last days scoffers ... saying, Where is the promise of His PRESENCE ... (3:4)

... the DAY OF JUDGING ... (Ver 7)

The Lord is not tardy as to the PROMISE ... (Ver 9)

... the Lord WILL BE ARRIVING as a thief ... (Ver 10)

Clearly the apostle Peter had a great deal to say about Christ’s coming, the kingdom of God, eonian life, expectation, the unveiling of Jesus Christ, etc., in just two short letters. It is not hard to see this theme in Peter’s letters.

And the one thing you could not put in your list was Peter speaking about the resurrection of the saints in correlation with the Return of Christ.

 

Next we will see how the apostle Paul likewise uses these same words and phrases in his many epistles describing the return of Jesus Christ:

Then we will see whether these two sets of Scriptures are speaking of two DIFFERENT events and two different times.

QUOTES FROM PAUL’S TEACHING ON CHRIST’S RETURN

I Cor. 1:4-8: I am thanking my God always concerning you over the grace of God which is being given you in Christ Jesus, for in everything are you enriched in Him, in all expression and all knowledge, according as the testimony of Christ was confirmed among you, so that you are not deficient in any grace, AWAITING THE UNVEILING of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who will be confirming you also unto the consummation, unimpeachable in the DAY OF THE LORD Jesus Christ ...

... in Christ shall all be vivified ... those who are Christ’s in His PRESENCE ... (15:33)

... in front of our Lord Jesus, in His PRESENCE (I Thes. 2:19)

... in the PRESENCE OF OUR LORD Jesus with ALL His saints. (I Thes. 3:13)

... the PRESENCE OF THE LORD ... (I Thes. 4:15)

... the DAY OF THE LORD is as a thief in the night ... (I Thes. 5:2)

... in the PRESENCE OF OUR LORD Jesus Christ! (I Thes. 5:23)

... at the UNVEILING OF THE LORD Jesus from heaven ... (II Thes. 1:7)

... the PRESENCE of the Lord Jesus Christ and our ASSEMBLING to Him ...(II Thes. 2:1)

... by the ADVENT of His PRESENCE ... (II Thes. 2:8)

... unto the ADVENT OF OUR LORD, Christ Jesus ... (I Tim. 6:14)

... through the ADVENT OF OUR SAVIOR, Christ Jesus ... (II Tim. 1:10)

... in accord with His ADVENT and His KINGDOM ... (II Tim. 4:1)

... but also to all who love His ADVENT ... (II Tim. 4:8)

Whenever Christ, our Life, should be MANIFESTED, then you also shall be MANIFESTED TOGETHER WITH HIM IN GLORY. (Col. 3:4)

... anticipating that happy EXPECTATION, even the ADVENT of the glory of the great God and our Saviour, Jesus Christ ... (Titus 2:13)

Here, to prove a false premise, you string, without context, anything that might refer to Christ's Return. It will not be until you learn the dissimilarities that you will understand why your list is not reliable.

 

It is difficult for me to comprehend that we are being asked to believe that the two sets of quotations above from Peter’s and Paul’s epistles represent: TWO different peoples, TWO different expectations, TWO difference comings of our Lord at two different times, TWO different resurrections, TWO different bodies, TWO different rewards, TWO different locations, and TWO different glories!

It's difficult for you to believe a false argument you have created?

Now that is hard to believe.

You want to quote me where any of this is relevant to anything I said?

 

Let me call your attention to the fact that although the above quotations sometimes differ slightly in terminology, they DO NOT, however, CONTRADICT!

Glad you understand that. What contradicts is trying to equate the resurrection Paul teaches about that is followed by the catching away...to the Lord's Return.

And by the way, see the "B, I, U" just above? Those are for emphasis. When you capitalize IT IS EQUIVALENT TO YELLING, lol. Just letting you know if you're not aware of this, and if you are aware...shame shame, lol.

Continued...

Edited December 24, 2014 by S.T. Ranger