Why will temple sacrifices resume during the millinium?

[mevosper]

 

I don't really see your conundrum.

 

The conundrum is: Since there will be no need to "appease" the Lord with sacrifices, what are the supposed sacrifices in the Millennial Kingdom for? 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

I don't really see your conundrum.

 

The conundrum is: Since there will be no need to "appease" the Lord with sacrifices, what are the supposed sacrifices in the Millennial Kingdom for? 

 

The sacrifices were never for the purpose of appeasing the Lord in the first place.  The sacrifices were simply a picture of the final sacrifice to come.   God doesn't need to be appeased.  He has no needs.  The sacrifices pointed to the coming of the Messiah. The sacrifices in the millennial temple will point backwards to the sacrifice of Christ.

 

And again, the sacrifices mentioned were for the purpose of consecration, not expiation. 

[mevosper]

These are the definitions as I understand them from Merriam-Webster.

 

Appease:

- to bring to a state of peace or quiet

Atonement: 

- the reconciliation of God and humankind through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. 

- reparation for an offense or injury

Expiation:

- the act of making atonement

- the means by which atonement is made

Consecration

- the act or ceremony of consecrating

- the state of being consecrated

Consecrate

- to officially make holy through a special religious ceremony

 

Here is how I am interpreting what you are saying:

 

There will be the need in the millennial kingdom to shed blood in order to consecrate (make them holy) the altar and possibly other items. This shed blood will be from animals. 

 

If we follow this logic, then when Christ comes back to reign in the millennial kingdom, nothing will be holy. Is this what you are saying? 

 

Continuing with this line of logic, things will need to be made holy on a continual basis, through the shedding of animal blood. 

 

Honestly, I don't see how anyone can buy this. Your reasoning nullifies what Christ did on the cross, and makes it of no effect. If my interpretation of what you are saying is  correct, what was the reason for Christ's death? This is a rhetorical question of course, because Christ's blood concecrates all. The only reason for animal sacrifices was to be a temporary atonement for sin until Christ could do his permanent atonement work on the cross.

 

I think by telling this forum, and these people of these sacrifices in the millennial kingdom, you are doing a disservice to them and their faith. 

 

Romans 5:11 KJV

And not only so, but we also joy in God, through our Lord Jesus Christ by whom we have now received the atonement. 

 

There is nothing in the millennial kingdom that will need to be consecrated.

[Guest]

There is nothing in the millennial kingdom that will need to be consecrated.

 

 

Holy

 

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel, saying,

 

On the fifteenth day of this seventh month and for seven days is the Feast of Booths to the Lord.

 

On the first day shall be a holy convocation; you shall not do any ordinary work.

 

For seven days you shall present food offerings to the Lord.

 

On the eighth day you shall hold a holy convocation

 

and present a food offering to the Lord.

 

It is a solemn assembly;

 

you shall not do any ordinary work. Leviticus 23:33-36 (ESV)

 

Holy

 

Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem

 

will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths.

 

And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts,

 

there will be no rain on them. If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them;

 

it will be the plague with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.

 

This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations

 

who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. Zechariah 14:16-19 (ESV)

 

Holy

 

In that day there will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, “HOLY TO THE LORD.”

 

And the cooking pots in the LORD’S house will be like the bowls before the altar.

 

Every cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the LORD of hosts;

 

and all who sacrifice will come and take of them and boil in them.

 

And there will no longer be a Canaanite

 

in the house of the LORD of hosts

 

in that day. Zechariah 14:20-21 (ESV)

 

Is The LORD Of Hosts

 

And one called to another and said:

 

“Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts;

 

the whole earth is full of his glory!” Isaiah 6:34 (ESV)

[Guest shiloh357]

These are the definitions as I understand them from Merriam-Webster.

 

Appease:

- to bring to a state of peace or quiet

Atonement: 

- the reconciliation of God and humankind through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. 

- reparation for an offense or injury

Expiation:

- the act of making atonement

- the means by which atonement is made

Consecration

- the act or ceremony of consecrating

- the state of being consecrated

Consecrate

- to officially make holy through a special religious ceremony

 

Yes but the in the Bible, atonement in relatinon to inanimate objects is a means of consecrating that object to holy use.

 

The problem you are having is that you have only seen atonement in one context when the Bible uses that term another way in addition to the normal way we use it.  You are trying to use Webster's Dictionary to define theological or biblical terms and frankly that is just laughable.   You need to let the Bible define itself.

 

Here is how I am interpreting what you are saying:

 

There will be the need in the millennial kingdom to shed blood in order to consecrate (make them holy) the altar and possibly other items. This shed blood will be from animals. 

 

If we follow this logic, then when Christ comes back to reign in the millennial kingdom, nothing will be holy. Is this what you are saying? 

 

Nope, what I am saying is that when the temple in Ezekiel is built, there are things like the altar that will be consecrated to holy use. That means there are certain things that will be set apart for a specific service in that temple and animal sacrifices will be used for that purpose.

 

I didn't say that nothing will be holy. 

 

Honestly, I don't see how anyone can buy this. Your reasoning nullifies what Christ did on the cross, and makes it of no effect.

 

Nope, you're wrong.  Nothing I have said nullifies what Christ did on the cross.  That is just laughable.  The only way your comment would have any credibility is if Jesus died to consecrate altars, which He didn't.  So using animal blood to make an altar holy has nothing to do with  why Jesus died on the cross.

 

If my interpretation of what you are saying is  correct,

 

 

And it isn't.  Not by a long shot.

 

The only reason for animal sacrifices was to be a temporary atonement for sin until Christ could do his permanent atonement work on the cross.

 

Wrong again.  There were five different sacrifices and only two of them had anything to do with sin (sin offering and guilt offering). .   A burnt offering, which didn't atone for sin, it was an act of worship. There was also the meal offering and the thank offering.  Those three sacrifices had nothing to do with atonement for sin, so you can't say the ONLY reason for animal sacrifices was to atone for sin.

 

Furthermore starting in Exodus 29:1 we see animal sacrifices used to consecrate Aaron and his sons.  Exodus 29:36-37 there was blood "atonement" made for the altar for seven days.   So there we see "atonement" and animal sacrifices used to consecrate the priests and to make "atonement" for the altar.

 

So clearly you don't understand the uses of these words very well are not the theologically equipped to correct me on this matter..

 

There is nothing in the millennial kingdom that will need to be consecrated.

 

Well the sacrifices are there in black and white, so the onus is on you to explain the presence of sacrifices in the millennial temple if there isn't supposed to be any.  You will have to explain why the Bible got it wrong about that.

[mevosper]

 

Yes but the in the Bible, atonement in relatinon to inanimate objects is a means of consecrating that object to holy use.

 

Will there be unholy uses for objects? What discoveries have you made that would make you think there are unholy uses for inanimate objects in the millennial kingdom.  

 

 

 

Quote

There is nothing in the millennial kingdom that will need to be consecrated.

Well the sacrifices are there in black and white, so the onus is on you to explain the presence of sacrifices in the millennial temple if there isn't supposed to be any.  You will have to explain why the Bible got it wrong about that.

 

Yep, there they are - for the atonement of sins. (Vs 19, 21, 22, 25)  Do you have verses which say otherwise? Please show where other uses of atonement are related to sacrifices without being for sin?

 

And, well, the bible didn't get it wrong. You did. And I've already explained why there are the presence of sacrifices in this passage. Did you miss it? I can explain further if you need me to. 

 

 

 

 

 

There will be the need in the millennial kingdom to shed blood in order to consecrate (make them holy) the altar and possibly other items. This shed blood will be from animals.

If we follow this logic, then when Christ comes back to reign in the millennial kingdom, nothing will be holy. Is this what you are saying?

Continuing with this line of logic, things will need to be made holy on a continual basis, through the shedding of animal blood.

 Nope, what I am saying is that when the temple in Ezekiel is built, there are things like the altar that will be consecrated to holy use. That means there are certain things that will be set apart for a specific service in that temple and animal sacrifices will be used for that purpose.

 

 

1. Wouldn't everything in the Millennial Kingdom be holy already? So why the need to consecrate?

2. Why is there even going to be a temple in the Millennial kingdom since we are the temple of the Holy Spirit?

3. Why is there the need to have the shedding of blood when Christ's blood was shed for all? 

4. Why the need to continually sacrifice to make things holy in the Millennial Kingdom? 

 

 

In your logic, you are nullifying the work of Jesus with your "sacrifice in the kingdom" theory. There is no need for any more killing in the kingdom. Doesn't this sink in? Doesn't this resonate in your mind and heart that the kingdom will not need this? 

 

**Insult removed**. I'm not quite sure what you are trying to prove. Because unless you go to church with these people and are trying to "save face", we are all just a bunch of Internet surfers.  Maybe you are a preacher or a bible teacher or something. What's your story, what do you do?

Edited October 6, 2014 by ncn
Removed personal attack. Per Terms of Service. Abuse of other posters is not allowed. This includes, but is not limited to, name calling, insulting, harassing, and threatening or in any way invading the privacy of another poster.

[Openly Curious]

Zechariah 14:16 - And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to "worship" the King, the LORD of host, and to "keep" the feast of tabernacles.

 

The feast of tabernacles is a biblical Jewish holiday and it will be kept during the 1000 year millennial reign of Christ .  The feast of tabernacles also known as booths or Ingatherings and it is called "Sukkot" and referred to as the "season of joy".  It is found in the scriptures and described to us in....

 

Note: It would be to lengthy to post all the verses in the scriptures below so if you want to know in full then you'll have to break out your bible and read them.

Leviticus 23:33-43 -   vs. 41-43) And ye shall keep it a feast unto the Lord seven days in the year.  It shall be a statue "forever" in your generations:  ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.  Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths:  That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt:  I am the Lord your God.  And Moses declared unto the children of Israel the feasts of the Lord.  

 

Numbers 29:12-38 -  (there is an abundance of sacrifices and offerings and gifts in keeping the feast of tabernacles).

 

Deuteronomy 16: 13-17 -  Thou shalt observe the feast of tabernacles seven days, after that thou hast gathered in thy corn and thy wine:  And thou shalt rejoice in thy feast, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite, the stranger, and the fatherless and the widow, that are within thy gates.  Seven days shalt thou keep a solemn feast unto the Lord thy God in the place which the Lord shall choose:  because the Lord thy God shall bless thee in all thine increase, and in all the works of thine hands, therefore thou shalt surely rejoice.  Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall choose, in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the Lord empty:  Every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessings of the Lord thy God which he hath given thee.

 

The feast of tabernacles was to be kept on the days of the 15th - 21st of the 7th month Tishri on the Jewish calendar (Sept./Oct.).  With an 8th day added as a grand finale or climax to all the feasts.  The purpose of the feast of tabernacles was to commerate God's deliverance and protection during the wilderness wanderings (Lev. 23:42).  It also was to rejoice in the completion of the harvest (Lev. 23:39).  It's important to study this feast of tabernacles in full because it has prophetic significance.  Because the feast of tabernacles foreshadows the peace and posperity that will be on the earth during the 1000 year millenial reign of Christ (Zech. 14:16).

 

This festival known as Sukkot has a prophetic dimension to it and it is awaiting fulfillment.  As the "Day of Ingathering" of the harvest, Sukkot (feast of tabernacles) prefigures the gathering together of the Jewish people in the days of the Messiah's reign on earth (Is.27:12-13; Jer.23:7-8).  All of the nations of the earth that survived the Great Tribulation will indeed come together to worship the Lord in Jerusalem during the Feast of Sukkot (Zech 14:16-17).   Therefore Sukkot is a vision of olam haba, the world to come...

 

The feast of tabernacles also foreshadows the sheltering prescence of the Lord over Israel in the Millennial kingdom of Christ.  Israel will not any longer be subjected to the oppression of any of the ungodly nations of the world.  Because God Himself is going to put or place His sanctuary (temple, tabernacle) in her midst (Ezekiel 37:26-28).  Christ, Yeshua the Messiah did indeed came to this earth born of a virgin named Mary to 'Sukkah" (tabernacle) with us as told to us (John 1:14).  He came for the purpose of purging our sins away to redeem us to Himself.

 

By the eye of faith yes we can see the revelation of the true Shekkinah glory of the Lord Almighty God in the person of Christ, (Yeshua) our beloved Messiah (Mashiach).  We still are nevertheless eagerly awaiting His return to this earth to establish His Kingdom and to "tabernacle" again with us.  And at that time in the future Christ will come and set up His everlasting "sukkah" (tabernacle, temple or sanctuary) with us and the Shekkinah glory of the Lord will fill the temple tabernacle as he sits on His throne.  So that we may know love and be with Him forever.   Maranatha, Lord Yeshua.

 

There will not be any future animal sacrifices for the "atonement of our sins" made during the 1000 year Millenial Reign of Christ on earth but there will be a celebration feast in every single year in keeping the feast of tabernacles and worship of God truely a "Season of Joy" during that time period.  It is going to be a celebration a great time of rejoicing a festive holiday to the Lord of hosts like we've never known before as we commerate remembering all of what Christ has done for His chosen people from all ages in their generations.  The joy of Sukkot was so great (1 Kings 12:32) it became known simply as the "Feast".  It will be a time of many sacrifices (Num 29) but not for atonement of sin.  This feast also goes hand in hand with the fruit harvest in that you would plant your crops in the spring but you wouldn't rejoice because of the uncertainty of the harvest to sustain you for the following year.  But after your harvest in the fall was in your joy was totally full as you had provisions and sustenece throughout the coming year.   That is why Sukkot is referred to the feast of Ingathering we will rejoice greatly and offer up the sacrifices of praise for the peace and prosperity of Christ's kingdom on earth as Willimina had metioned.

 

But the feast of tabernacle entails so much I can't do it justice.  But we are now members of Christ's body the greater temple.  And we are now also part of His great "sukkah" which is the world to come when Christ once again will be tabernacled among us.    The scriptures below you can read in order for a better understanding to see for yourself what has been foretold...

 

Isaiah 60:6-9;  66: 18-21, 23;  Lev. 23:39-43;  Num 29:12-38;  Deut 31:10-13;  2 Chron 8:13;  Ezra 3:4;  Neh 8:14-18;  Ps. 24:7-10;  Is 6:5;  Jer 46:18;  48:15; 51:57;  Hos 12:9;  Joel 2:32;  Zech 8:20-23;  9:7;  14:17-19;  Mal 1:14;  Luke 19:38;  John 1:49;  7:2,  37-39;  Acts 15:17:  Rom 9:23-24;  11:5,  16,  26;  Phil 2:9-11;  Rev 11:13,  15-17;  19:16    

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

Yes but the in the Bible, atonement in relatinon to inanimate objects is a means of consecrating that object to holy use.

 

Will there be unholy uses for objects? What discoveries have you made that would make you think there are unholy uses for inanimate objects in the millennial kingdom.  

 

 

You're missing the point.  Certain things are consecrated for use for no other purpose than to be used in God's service.  That's all I am saying.  Stop trying to assign values to my words that I don't intend.

 

Yep, there they are - for the atonement of sins. (Vs 19, 21, 22, 25)  Do you have verses which say otherwise? Please show where other uses of atonement are related to sacrifices without being for sin?

 

I already gave you Exodus 29 - the consecration of the priests and the altar.

 

 

 

1. Wouldn't everything in the Millennial Kingdom be holy already? So why the need to consecrate?

2. Why is there even going to be a temple in the Millennial kingdom since we are the temple of the Holy Spirit?

3. Why is there the need to have the shedding of blood when Christ's blood was shed for all? 

4. Why the need to continually sacrifice to make things holy in the Millennial Kingdom? 

 

 

The onus is on you to explain Ezekiel 40-48 as something other than what it is.  It is a real temple, and there are going to be sacrifices in that temple even your theology can't make room for that reality.  Sorry, but your argument is really nonsensical because the sacrifices are there in the text.   You'll need to explain why atonement is being made for the altar if atonement can only apply to human sin.  Why is atonement being made for an inanimate object that can't sin, if atonement ONLY applies to human sins?

 

 

 

In your logic, you are nullifying the work of Jesus with your "sacrifice in the kingdom" theory. There is no need for any more killing in the kingdom. Doesn't this sink in? Doesn't this resonate in your mind and heart that the kingdom will not need this? 

 

the problem with this nonsense is that you are trying to refute an argument I never made.  You are wanting to argue with something you have assigned to me.  Nothing I have said nullifies what Jesus did on the cross, as there is no sin offering for human sin present in the millennial temple. There is no guilt offering or sin offering made for the sins of the people anywhere.   You are simply not theologically equipped to understand "atonement" beyond one particular context.

 

 

**Insult removed **. I'm not quite sure what you are trying to prove. Because unless you go to church with these people and are trying to "save face", we are all just a bunch of Internet surfers.  Maybe you are a preacher or a bible teacher or something. What's your story, what do you do?

 

Who and what I am isn't important.  I am not going to let you take this off into something personal. 

[ncn]

This is for all posters. 

 

Debate the subject, not the person. It is possible to disagree about a doctrine or subject under discussion without insulting the person with whom you are debating.

Also remember that the fact that a person disagrees with you does not mean they are attacking you as a person.

Respect each other in the love of God!

This is the main reason that threads get stopped, shut down, and even deleted! Users that cannot respect others will be banned from the thread. (Lev. 19:18)

 

If you know you are butting heads with another member, be the first to offer an olive branch and be the peacemaker.

If you notice that you are getting heated by another’s response, walk away from the thread until you know you have His peace back in your life over the issue.

If you feel strongly about an issue between you and another member, offer to debate it in the Soap Box forum so the two of you can focus on each other’s response and not all the other posts of those who want to be involved.

 

Check your attitudes as you post, ensuring that what you are posting is exactly what you want to post.

Watch your words. Using passive aggressive statements are just as cutting and demeaning as an outright insult.

Ensure that you are discussing the issue, not the person.

 

If you have a personal statement to another member, take it private and remain respectful.

Take the time to ensure that what you think someone is saying is what they are saying, not reading into another’s post.

Ask questions for clarification when a statement is unclear instead of assuming you know what someone is saying is advisable.

Back up your words with supporting Scripture. If you don’t, one could easily see a post as “Because I said so”, which goes absolutely nowhere.

 

God Bless. 

 

Nigel. 

[mevosper]

Nigel - I was getting frustrated and sarcastic. My apologies to Shiloh.

 

 

 

 

Quote

Yes but the in the Bible, atonement in relatinon to inanimate objects is a means of consecrating that object to holy use.

Will there be unholy uses for objects? What discoveries have you made that would make you think there are unholy uses for inanimate objects in the millennial kingdom. 


You're missing the point.  Certain things are consecrated for use for no other purpose than to be used in God's service.  That's all I am saying.  Stop trying to assign values to my words that I don't intend.

 I'm not missing your point. Your belief is there will be animal sacrifices to atone for things that cannot sin. They did this in the old testament, as you pointed out, in Exodus 29. Just thinking about this for a moment, my question is, 

 

With the blood of Christ being used to cover all "unholiness", there doesn't seem to be, in my mind, a reason to continue with any sacrifices. I see where you are coming from that not all blood atonement was used for sin, but also consecrating inanimate objects. But this wasn't necessary before the fall. Adam and Eve didn't need to consecrate anything. It won't be necessary during the kingdom either. 

 

 

 

 

Quote

1. Wouldn't everything in the Millennial Kingdom be holy already? So why the need to consecrate?
2. Why is there even going to be a temple in the Millennial kingdom since we are the temple of the Holy Spirit?
3. Why is there the need to have the shedding of blood when Christ's blood was shed for all?
4. Why the need to continually sacrifice to make things holy in the Millennial Kingdom?


The onus is on you to explain Ezekiel 40-48 as something other than what it is.  It is a real temple, and there are going to be sacrifices in that temple even your theology can't make room for that reality.  Sorry, but your argument is really nonsensical because the sacrifices are there in the text.   You'll need to explain why atonement is being made for the altar if atonement can only apply to human sin.  Why is atonement being made for an inanimate object that can't sin, if atonement ONLY applies to human sins?

This is actually a vision to Ezekiel, not a real temple. And until it is a real temple, should it actually be treated as a real temple? 

 

I believe the consecrating of inanimate objects, with blood, in the Old Testament was required due to our sinful human nature touching the articles and objects. I see sin much like a bacteria, as it where, being spread. Washing, or covering in this case, would be by blood. As an example, Jesus would not allow Mary to touch him until he presented himself to the Father. Why? Because she was still in her corruptible, sinful state. In relation to this, Paul calls this flesh corruptible (1 Cor 15). Nothing on this earth is holy without being consecrated with blood. Since there will not be sin in the kingdom, there is not need to make anything "holy". It already is holy.  

 

I don't believe God's intention for this is a physical temple. Mainly because Christ is the temple. "Destroy this temple, and in 3 days I will build it back up". There is no more need have a physical temple. Think New Testament references about the temple not made with hands. 

 

 

 

 

Quote
In your logic, you are nullifying the work of Jesus with your "sacrifice in the kingdom" theory. There is no need for any more killing in the kingdom. Doesn't this sink in? Doesn't this resonate in your mind and heart that the kingdom will not need this?

the problem with this nonsense is that you are trying to refute an argument I never made.  You are wanting to argue with something you have assigned to me.  Nothing I have said nullifies what Jesus did on the cross, as there is no sin offering for human sin present in the millennial temple. There is no guilt offering or sin offering made for the sins of the people anywhere.   You are simply not theologically equipped to understand "atonement" beyond one particular context.

 

It's a question that requires an answer especially if there is the shedding of blood in the kingdom. If there is a need for the shedding of blood in the kingdom, then the question is "Why wasn't Christ's work on the cross enough?". I do believe Christ's shedding of blood was enough. John the baptist calls Jesus "the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world." All the sin of the world. 

 

Like I said, I believe Ezekiel's temple is a vision only (with all that entails) and should be treated as such at the moment. The references back to the Old Testament concerning the consecrating of objects and priests strengthen what Christ's blood did for us. As he was beaten and bruised, his blood was sprinkled all over Jerusalem.