is it okay for the young Christians to drink alcohol?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

I think the argument that Jesus created "non-alcoholic" wine is something that was created by those that say alcohol of any amount is wrong.

I would also agree that Jesus would not support drunkeness. But that doesn't mean he made non-alcoholic wine.

Just my thoughts.

[Persuaded]

I'm probably guilty of being a little flippant here, and that's probably not an appropriate way to discuss communion.

I know that the reason churches generally switch to grape juice is to avoid stumbling a pew-sitter.

 

  [Rom 14:2,2 KJV] For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

   Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

 

It's interesting to note in this discussion of diet, the one who is weak in the faith is the one with the more restrictive outlook.

 

 

[Rom 14:15-17 KJV] But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

 

If a brother is grieved by my diet, I assume that can also apply to my choice about alcohol.

 

 

I've been thinking about this lately, as I raise a child. I don't want her to have a puritanical "all alcohol is evil" outlook, and thus a forbidden fruit attraction later, but I also don't want her to destroy our family's witness as she discusses these issues with school mates that come from sometimes very non-alcoholic backgrounds.

[Snow]

I think the argument that Jesus created "non-alcoholic" wine is something that was created by those that say alcohol of any amount is wrong.

I would also agree that Jesus would not support drunkeness. But that doesn't mean he made non-alcoholic wine.

Just my thoughts.

Hi again Jm

Yes, I have no idea if they had non alcoholic wine at all, I thought if any-one new of 

any factual evidence then an argument could be made for the water to be made into non alcoholic wine.

 

I was thinking about this, Jesus probably would have made exactly what they desired at the feast. It 

would have been necessary he was revealing His Glory, to give anything less than what they desired

would not have sufficed.

It is Christians  who are told not to be drunken in excess, drunkenness is a fruit of the flesh.  

 

God Bless

[Guest LadyC]

 

I'm probably guilty of being a little flippant here, and that's probably not an appropriate way to discuss communion.

I know that the reason churches generally switch to grape juice is to avoid stumbling a pew-sitter.

 

  [Rom 14:2,2 KJV] For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

   Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

 

It's interesting to note in this discussion of diet, the one who is weak in the faith is the one with the more restrictive outlook.

 

 

[Rom 14:15-17 KJV] But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

 

If a brother is grieved by my diet, I assume that can also apply to my choice about alcohol.

 

 

I've been thinking about this lately, as I raise a child. I don't want her to have a puritanical "all alcohol is evil" outlook, and thus a forbidden fruit attraction later, but I also don't want her to destroy our family's witness as she discusses these issues with school mates that come from sometimes very non-alcoholic backgrounds.

 

 

we can't live our life worrying about offending total strangers, and that's not what God intended when He said not to be a stumbling block for your brother. as for your daughter, why not raise her to respond to questions with the answer that your family believes that matters of alcohol are between the individual and God?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

This is a bit off topic but has some paralleles. I once saw a YouTube done by a vegetarian that claimed eating meat was wrong and the bible supported her claim. I cant remember the quotes but most were from Genesis. I pointed out that when Noah left the ark God told him that the animals were food as well. She completely blew me off.

My point is if someone chooses to eat or drink something or chooses not to that is their choice.

I believe the only dietary limitations in the NT was not eating stranger meat, blood and I think there was one other thing.

[Guest Butero]

The only thing the Bible says about alcohol is that a drunkard shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, and that we are not to drink in excess.  That would mean that if a person is legally able to drink, so long as they do so in moderation (don't get drunk), it is not a sin.  I don't think it matters if it is wine or grape juice with regard to communion.  You generally only take one small sip, so there is no concern about becoming drunk, but it is illegal to give alcohol to minors, so I would recommend using non-alcoholic wine or grape juice. 

 

@JesusSavedMe, there are things listed in the beliefs at Worthy Boards that we must accept to be considered full members.  If you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God, you don't meet that requirement, however, from my understanding, you wouldn't be kicked out.  You would likely just be listed as a seeker.  Of course, you didn't say you do or don't believe the Bible is the Word of God.  You said you don't follow it.  That means you may believe it, but choose to commit sins.  To me, if you don't believe the Bible, how do you believe in Jesus since it is the Bible that tells us of him?  If you don't follow the Bible, and are living in wilful sin, how do you expect to make it to heaven, when the Bible makes it clear that it is not enough to just believe, but we must have a change in lifestyle?  If I were you, my main concern would be over my soul, not over my status at a message board. 

[Qnts2]

From wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Bramwell_Welch

 

 

Then in 1869, Welch invented a method of pasteurizing grape juice so that fermentation was stopped, and the drink was non-alcoholic. He persuaded local churches to adopt this non-alcoholic "wine" for communion services, calling it "Dr. Welch's Unfermented Wine."

 

Grape just which has not been pasteurized, has yeast in it (naturally occurs), and is not in a tightly sealed container, would ferment very quickly, in a week. 

[Fez]

 

 

I'm probably guilty of being a little flippant here, and that's probably not an appropriate way to discuss communion.

I know that the reason churches generally switch to grape juice is to avoid stumbling a pew-sitter.

 

  [Rom 14:2,2 KJV] For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

   Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

 

It's interesting to note in this discussion of diet, the one who is weak in the faith is the one with the more restrictive outlook.

 

 

[Rom 14:15-17 KJV] But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

 

If a brother is grieved by my diet, I assume that can also apply to my choice about alcohol.

 

 

I've been thinking about this lately, as I raise a child. I don't want her to have a puritanical "all alcohol is evil" outlook, and thus a forbidden fruit attraction later, but I also don't want her to destroy our family's witness as she discusses these issues with school mates that come from sometimes very non-alcoholic backgrounds.

 

 

we can't live our life worrying about offending total strangers, and that's not what God intended when He said not to be a stumbling block for your brother. as for your daughter, why not raise her to respond to questions with the answer that your family believes that matters of alcohol are between the individual and God?

 

What about the alcoholic church going Christian? 

[Fez]

 

....I personally don't adhere to any Bible.... 

 

....I won't give my reasons....

 

 

we're all a work in progress. JesusSavedMe does believe (apparently) that Jesus did indeed save her. as time goes on, the Holy Spirit will reveal the truth of scripture to her. He who has begun a good work in her will finish what He started. and while He will no doubt use individuals from time to time to help point her in the right direction, it's unlikely to be any of us on a message board.

 

 

 

Just as well Worthy is a ministry and not a message board then! 

[Guest LadyC]

 

 

 

I'm probably guilty of being a little flippant here, and that's probably not an appropriate way to discuss communion.

I know that the reason churches generally switch to grape juice is to avoid stumbling a pew-sitter.

 

  [Rom 14:2,2 KJV] For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

   Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

 

It's interesting to note in this discussion of diet, the one who is weak in the faith is the one with the more restrictive outlook.

 

 

[Rom 14:15-17 KJV] But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

 

If a brother is grieved by my diet, I assume that can also apply to my choice about alcohol.

 

 

I've been thinking about this lately, as I raise a child. I don't want her to have a puritanical "all alcohol is evil" outlook, and thus a forbidden fruit attraction later, but I also don't want her to destroy our family's witness as she discusses these issues with school mates that come from sometimes very non-alcoholic backgrounds.

 

 

we can't live our life worrying about offending total strangers, and that's not what God intended when He said not to be a stumbling block for your brother. as for your daughter, why not raise her to respond to questions with the answer that your family believes that matters of alcohol are between the individual and God?

 

What about the alcoholic church going Christian? 

 

 

not sure what you mean with your question, but i'll try to respond in a way that covers all the basis in my most humble opinion.

 

first of all, i was answering to the situation that was brought up... a child who attends school who might get into a discussion with other christian kids about the biblical legality of drinking alcohol. i wasn't under the impression that the scenario presented was about alcoholism or even occasional binge drinking. as i understood the scenario, persuaded was referring to situations where their child, coming from a background where the parents might have an occasional beer or glass of wine, might possibly offend a child whose parents taught them that alcohol was evil, period, with no exceptions. in that situation, the child really needs to understand that you can't please everybody, and that they should stand firm on biblical truth... that truth being that alcohol in moderation is between God and an individual.

 

secondly, what about the church going christian who happens to be an alcoholic... is that an adequate rephrasing of your question? if it is, then my response is also a question. what about it? should the church close its doors to an alcoholic? or to an alcoholic who has accepted Christ but still struggles on a daily basis with drinking?

 

there are a lot of christians out there that still have very real struggles with substance abuse. see, this is why i have had such a hard time finding a church to settle into here in texas. everybody wants their pews filled with cookie cutter christians, and those with issues are made to feel unwelcome. i'm so grateful that when we lived in vegas, i belonged to a church that opened it's doors, arms and hearts wide to those with addictions. it was that loving, welcoming attitude that helped my husband go from being a chronic meth abuser to someone who has now been clean for more than three years, and has even been able to put down cigarettes... even though moving back to texas and leaving that church was critical for his getting clean, he couldn't have done it if he hadn't spent years being accepted by the very people he knew without a doubt were praying for him. and my husband isn't the only person i saw change as a result of that church's attitude... if a label can be given to a church, grapevine proudly wore the banner of "recovery church". in the five years i was a member, i knew a whole lot of people who were able to overcome drugs, gambling, drinking, prostitution, you name it. they were welcomed inside the doors even on the occasions when they came in obviously high or drunk, and nobody criticized them for it. prayed with them over it, but never criticized.

 

isn't that the attitude that the church (as a whole) is supposed to have?