Last Daze Posted November 10, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2014 I can't find anywhere that the toes are called kings. As you said, the ten kings are in power for an hour with the beast (fallen angel, not the false prophet). After that hour, the false prophet tears three of the ten out by the roots. There is not an alliance between the false prophet and the 10 kings that I can find. Why would Daniel refer to the toes as "those kings" whenever they're never previously identified as such? He's talking about Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the feet. There's more to those kingdoms than what meets the eye. He's talking about those kings that he's just mentioned starting with the head of gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serving Posted November 11, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 934 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 905 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/05/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/14/1969 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I can't find anywhere that the toes are called kings. As you said, the ten kings are in power for an hour with the beast (fallen angel, not the false prophet). After that hour, the false prophet tears three of the ten out by the roots. There is not an alliance between the false prophet and the 10 kings that I can find. Why would Daniel refer to the toes as "those kings" whenever they're never previously identified as such? He's talking about Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the feet. There's more to those kingdoms than what meets the eye. He's talking about those kings that he's just mentioned starting with the head of gold. Hmm .. much to say on your reply, but I will just comment on this for now .. What does God say about this kingdom He is going to set up? Daniel 2: 44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. He said concerning this kingdom to be set up.. "Which shall NEVER BE DESTROYED" Ill just fast track my point to Rome ok? Israel ceased to exist as a nation in 70ad. Does that sound like the kingdom "which shall never be destroyed" to you? History tells us a resounding NO .. because 70ad can not be argued .. and since 70ad can not be brushed aside .. where Israel was destroyed as a nation for over 2000 years .. then obviously the kings of Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece & Rome can not & are definitely not "these kings" being spoken of where God sets up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed because they are already dead & the kingdom of Israel was indeed destroyed. So you see, by default, the only kings which "these kings" can be, are the last generation kings who join with the very human false prophet. Remember the Apostles asking Christ when the kingdom would be restored to Israel? Look at his: Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Restoration begins here. This is that kingdom to be set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted November 11, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2014 I can't find anywhere that the toes are called kings. As you said, the ten kings are in power for an hour with the beast (fallen angel, not the false prophet). After that hour, the false prophet tears three of the ten out by the roots. There is not an alliance between the false prophet and the 10 kings that I can find. Why would Daniel refer to the toes as "those kings" whenever they're never previously identified as such? He's talking about Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the feet. There's more to those kingdoms than what meets the eye. He's talking about those kings that he's just mentioned starting with the head of gold. Hmm .. much to say on your reply, but I will just comment on this for now .. What does God say about this kingdom He is going to set up? Daniel 2: 44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. He said concerning this kingdom to be set up.. "Which shall NEVER BE DESTROYED" Ill just fast track my point to Rome ok? Israel ceased to exist as a nation in 70ad. Does that sound like the kingdom "which shall never be destroyed" to you? History tells us a resounding NO .. because 70ad can not be argued .. and since 70ad can not be brushed aside .. where Israel was destroyed as a nation for over 2000 years .. then obviously the kings of Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece & Rome can not & are definitely not "these kings" being spoken of where God sets up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed because they are already dead & the kingdom of Israel was indeed destroyed. So you see, by default, the only kings which "these kings" can be, are the last generation kings who join with the very human false prophet. Remember the Apostles asking Christ when the kingdom would be restored to Israel? Look at his: Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Restoration begins here. This is that kingdom to be set up. According to Daniel 12, there are certain fallen angels that bring these kingdoms into a place of dominion. They are referred to as "princes" such as "the prince of Persia" and "the prince of Greece". Those fallen fallen angels, who are depicted as beasts in Daniel 7, will be active in the last days as illustrated by the beast with 7 heads and ten horns. Look at the symbolism of that fallen angel and compare it to the beasts of Daniel 7. While the historic kingdoms of Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome no longer exist as dominating kingdoms, the princes that "fathered" them do exist, and it is their end times handiwork that will be destroyed, along with any traces of their previous efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serving Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 934 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 905 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/05/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/14/1969 Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) I can't find anywhere that the toes are called kings. As you said, the ten kings are in power for an hour with the beast (fallen angel, not the false prophet). After that hour, the false prophet tears three of the ten out by the roots. There is not an alliance between the false prophet and the 10 kings that I can find. Why would Daniel refer to the toes as "those kings" whenever they're never previously identified as such? He's talking about Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the feet. There's more to those kingdoms than what meets the eye. He's talking about those kings that he's just mentioned starting with the head of gold. Hmm .. much to say on your reply, but I will just comment on this for now .. What does God say about this kingdom He is going to set up? Daniel 2: 44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. He said concerning this kingdom to be set up.. "Which shall NEVER BE DESTROYED" Ill just fast track my point to Rome ok? Israel ceased to exist as a nation in 70ad. Does that sound like the kingdom "which shall never be destroyed" to you? History tells us a resounding NO .. because 70ad can not be argued .. and since 70ad can not be brushed aside .. where Israel was destroyed as a nation for over 2000 years .. then obviously the kings of Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece & Rome can not & are definitely not "these kings" being spoken of where God sets up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed because they are already dead & the kingdom of Israel was indeed destroyed. So you see, by default, the only kings which "these kings" can be, are the last generation kings who join with the very human false prophet. Remember the Apostles asking Christ when the kingdom would be restored to Israel? Look at his: Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Restoration begins here. This is that kingdom to be set up. According to Daniel 12, there are certain fallen angels that bring these kingdoms into a place of dominion. They are referred to as "princes" such as "the prince of Persia" and "the prince of Greece". Those fallen fallen angels, who are depicted as beasts in Daniel 7, will be active in the last days as illustrated by the beast with 7 heads and ten horns. Look at the symbolism of that fallen angel and compare it to the beasts of Daniel 7. While the historic kingdoms of Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome no longer exist as dominating kingdoms, the princes that "fathered" them do exist, and it is their end times handiwork that will be destroyed, along with any traces of their previous efforts. "In the days of these kings" is specific, because, in their days, God is going to set up a kingdom. I already explained who I see them as .. and the reasons .. and know that the discernment is solid. Nevertheless, If we understood those kings to be fallen angels, then that verse was a contradictory declaration, Do you know why? Because if it were speaking of fallen angels, the days of those kings would be covering a time span of thousands of years!! And Christs kingdom could just pop up at any old time DURING that stretched out time period!! But Christ already gave us a generation, (days) to be watching out for and a political landscape to expect for the coming of the last kingdom and its wicked (human) ruler. This prophecy is directed at MEN and for MEN because it is taking place within the realm of MEN. God is NOT using days of these kings to describe fallen angels Daze!! How could we possibly watch out for angels in positions of power who are invisible to mankind anyway? The only possible way would be to watch for their works materialising through MEN .. So then, even if we said, "ok, this is talking about fallen angel kings" .. "days of these kings" would still, by default .. refer to .. MEN .. Why? Because we as humans would be forced to watch MEN to be able to discern the works of the fallen angels materializing in our realm anyway!! See the contradictory loop? Can we watch angels? Of course not, so then, who do you think God would be forced to use as His example for men to be able to work it out either way? Why MEN of course!! Hence, in the days of these kings. Another thing .. How could we possibly know if 10 fallen angels kings were ruling or a thousand fallen angel kings were ruling? Another endless loop!! See the problem in "fallen angels are those beasts" hypothesis? And these are just off the top of my head, a rushed observation Some others might see even more yet? Last Daze, I find your interpretation .. odd .. and new to me at that. Thanks bro. Edited November 12, 2014 by Serving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I wonder about Daniel's Prophecy from The Image's Head of the golden era of Babylonian (Culture) which prevails through unto this 4th final kingdom Standing on the Feet of Iron & Clay are The Muslims today. "There shall be a 4th kingdom Strong as Iron just as Iron crushes and shatters everything it shall crush and smash all these like Iron that crushes all the earth. the feet and toes partly of Iron and partly of potter's Clay. So the kingdom will be partly Strong and partly Brittle. The Iron mixed with clay so will they intermingle with one another in marriage. But they will not hold together. Just as Iron does not mix with Clay." (From the Hebrew Dead Sea Scrolls Bible) Da.2:40-43 - ISIS Muslims, are proving to be Strong as Iron crushing everything in it's path. - More Moderate Muslims, not adhering to them are breaking away as Iron does not mix with Clay. ISIS is not strong. the world is pretending they are strong, to set up the Jewish antichrist who can crush ISIS. Its NATO that will rule the world, Turkey and Europe. Iron kingdom = Rome = from Europe divided iron kingdom = Roman Empire split into Papal Europe and Byzantium Turkey Ten toes Rome : Europe and Turkey will set up a ten nation union in the Middle East These are the three stages of Rome. History confirms that the fourth empire did split into two: 41 Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom Of course the USA is being indoctrinated that Islam is the enemy, in that way the USA can provide armies to establish the REAL BEAST. NATO. Europe and Turkey have combined their power to crush the Arabs and in this way the Turks and the Kurds will be the new leaders of Islam, the Arabs are being sidelined. USA and Turkey armed ISIS and they are not eliminating ISIS yet for the following reasons: 1) To legitimise the USA presence in the Middle East, the USA pretends reluctance but their presence is now popular 2) To legitimise the USA support for Israel's friend, the Kurds. These Kurds are being protected because they are allies of Israel. 3) To bring more misery to the Arab world in Iraq and Syria, ISIS contributes towards the mess of the infrastructure of these two countries. 4) To bring down Assad, enemy of the west and friend to Russia 5) To make anti-west radical Islam less popular, moderate Islam is on the rise because ISIS has become the voice of radical Islam and yet is highly unpopular among the masses. The west has created that cancer of ISIS to further the beast's agenda. USA Christians think that they are fighting the beast, instead they are supporting the beast. The beast is reflected in the two feet of the statue, the divided kingdom of Rome. This is Europe and Turkey. American armies fight the wars of Europe and Turkey on their behalf, while those two regions are quietly building their military strength while the USA fights their wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 12, 2014 I can't find anywhere that the toes are called kings. As you said, the ten kings are in power for an hour with the beast (fallen angel, not the false prophet). After that hour, the false prophet tears three of the ten out by the roots. There is not an alliance between the false prophet and the 10 kings that I can find. Why would Daniel refer to the toes as "those kings" whenever they're never previously identified as such? He's talking about Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the feet. There's more to those kingdoms than what meets the eye. He's talking about those kings that he's just mentioned starting with the head of gold. Hmm .. much to say on your reply, but I will just comment on this for now .. What does God say about this kingdom He is going to set up? Daniel 2: 44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. He said concerning this kingdom to be set up.. "Which shall NEVER BE DESTROYED" Ill just fast track my point to Rome ok? Israel ceased to exist as a nation in 70ad. Does that sound like the kingdom "which shall never be destroyed" to you? History tells us a resounding NO .. because 70ad can not be argued .. and since 70ad can not be brushed aside .. where Israel was destroyed as a nation for over 2000 years .. then obviously the kings of Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece & Rome can not & are definitely not "these kings" being spoken of where God sets up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed because they are already dead & the kingdom of Israel was indeed destroyed. So you see, by default, the only kings which "these kings" can be, are the last generation kings who join with the very human false prophet. Remember the Apostles asking Christ when the kingdom would be restored to Israel? Look at his: Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Restoration begins here. This is that kingdom to be set up. According to Daniel 12, there are certain fallen angels that bring these kingdoms into a place of dominion. They are referred to as "princes" such as "the prince of Persia" and "the prince of Greece". Those fallen fallen angels, who are depicted as beasts in Daniel 7, will be active in the last days as illustrated by the beast with 7 heads and ten horns. Look at the symbolism of that fallen angel and compare it to the beasts of Daniel 7. While the historic kingdoms of Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome no longer exist as dominating kingdoms, the princes that "fathered" them do exist, and it is their end times handiwork that will be destroyed, along with any traces of their previous efforts. "In the days of these kings" is specific, because, in their days, God is going to set up a kingdom. I already explained who I see them as .. and the reasons .. and know that the discernment is solid. Nevertheless, If we understood those kings to be fallen angels, then that verse was a contradictory declaration, Do you know why? Because if it were speaking of fallen angels, the days of those kings would be covering a time span of thousands of years!! And Christs kingdom could just pop up at any old time DURING that stretched out time period!! But Christ already gave us a generation, (days) to be watching out for and a political landscape to expect for the coming of the last kingdom and its wicked (human) ruler. This prophecy is directed at MEN and for MEN because it is taking place within the realm of MEN. God is NOT using days of these kings to describe fallen angels Daze!! How could we possibly watch out for angels in positions of power who are invisible to mankind anyway? The only possible way would be to watch for their works materialising through MEN .. So then, even if we said, "ok, this is talking about fallen angel kings" .. "days of these kings" would still, by default .. refer to .. MEN .. Why? Because we as humans would be forced to watch MEN to be able to discern the works of the fallen angels materializing in our realm anyway!! See the contradictory loop? Can we watch angels? Of course not, so then, who do you think God would be forced to use as His example for men to be able to work it out either way? Why MEN of course!! Hence, in the days of these kings. Another thing .. How could we possibly know if 10 fallen angels kings were ruling or a thousand fallen angel kings were ruling? Another endless loop!! See the problem in "fallen angels are those beasts" hypothesis? And these are just off the top of my head, a rushed observation Some others might see even more yet? Last Daze, I find your interpretation .. odd .. and new to me at that. Thanks bro. I don't see it as contradictory and here's why...the fallen angels were taken out of their place of influence, and their respective kingdom went into a state of decline. My guess is that they were cast into the abyss. I don't see them as being released until possibly the first seal is opened. I agree that the 10 horns / toes will be men. I'm not referring to fallen angels in that context. The only ones that are specifically identified are the prince of Persia and the prince of Greece, from Daniel 10. By extension, I think its reasonable to include the prince of Babylon and prince of Rome in that group. I'm sure it goes beyond that, but only in the realm of speculation. The terms "king" and "kingdom" are often used interchangeably, as in Daniel 7 for example. One can't really exist without the other. We see the natural manifestations of these kingdoms but what we don't see is their source...in the spiritual realm. Who was the true source of the Persian Empire? Who was it's true "king"? The fallen angel which influenced it into a place of dominion. I see the beast with seven heads and ten horns of Rev 13 as the "prince of Rome" who is released from the abyss in the last days. Since the false prophet comes with all the deception of wickedness, its reasonable to assume that the princes of Babylon, Persia, and Greece are actively involved as well, probably released from the abyss when the prince of Rome was. The symbolism of the beast seems to indicate that the first three beasts of Daniel 7 are involved. It's a concept that I think is worth consideration and one which I think helps explain certain facets of prophecy. I really don't think that we'll know for sure who the ten horns / toes are until they destroy the city which reigns over the kings of the earth. Again, how can the ten toes be "those kings" when they are only in power for an hour and then the false prophet tears three of them out by the roots? Something to consider.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 12, 2014 Ten toes Rome : Europe and Turkey will set up a ten nation union in the Middle East Are you equating the ten toes of the great statue to the ten horns of Daniel 7 and Rev 17? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Ten toes Rome : Europe and Turkey will set up a ten nation union in the Middle East Are you equating the ten toes of the great statue to the ten horns of Daniel 7 and Rev 17? Yes I am. Its not a strong link, but Daniel 7, Revelation 13 and Revelation 17 all associate this ten-part kingdom with the final manifestation of worldly power before the day of the Lord. So it makes sense that the statue timeline of Daniel 2, which ends in ten toes, is also hinting at the same final ten toes before the stone (Jesus) destroys all these kingdoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 12, 2014 Ten toes Rome : Europe and Turkey will set up a ten nation union in the Middle East Are you equating the ten toes of the great statue to the ten horns of Daniel 7 and Rev 17? Yes I am. Its not a strong link, but Daniel 7, Revelation 13 and Revelation 17 all associate this ten-part kingdom with the final manifestation of worldly power before the day of the Lord. So it makes sense that the statue timeline of Daniel 2, which ends in ten toes, is also hinting at the same final ten toes before the stone (Jesus) destroys all these kingdoms. I agree with you. I just didn't want to assume. I've heard someone put forth the notion that the ten horns of Daniel 7 were different from the ten horns of Rev 13,17. Just wanted to make sure there wasn't a third set of "ten" somethings floating around out there, that is, if there are ten toes since we're never told how many there are but its a likely assumption that fits. In that case, how do you see Rev 17:12 which says: The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted November 12, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Yes I am. Its not a strong link, but Daniel 7, Revelation 13 and Revelation 17 all associate this ten-part kingdom with the final manifestation of worldly power before the day of the Lord. So it makes sense that the statue timeline of Daniel 2, which ends in ten toes, is also hinting at the same final ten toes before the stone (Jesus) destroys all these kingdoms. I agree with you. I just didn't want to assume. I've heard someone put forth the notion that the ten horns of Daniel 7 were different from the ten horns of Rev 13,17. Just wanted to make sure there wasn't a third set of "ten" somethings floating around out there, that is, if there are ten toes since we're never told how many there are but its a likely assumption that fits. In that case, how do you see Rev 17:12 which says: The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. ? I believe these ten final Middle Eastern kingdoms are currently being raised up to give Turkey power for the final years before the second coming. The leaders are not yet in place, but some of the countries have already been established. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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