rjp34652 Posted December 10, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 448 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 156 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2014 I wonder about Daniel's Prophecy from The Image's Head of the golden era of Babylonian (Culture) which prevails through unto this 4th final kingdom Standing on the Feet of Iron & Clay are The Muslims today. "There shall be a 4th kingdom Strong as Iron just as Iron crushes and shatters everything it shall crush and smash all these like Iron that crushes all the earth. the feet and toes partly of Iron and partly of potter's Clay. So the kingdom will be partly Strong and partly Brittle. The Iron mixed with clay so will they intermingle with one another in marriage. But they will not hold together. Just as Iron does not mix with Clay." (From the Hebrew Dead Sea Scrolls Bible) Da.2:40-43 - ISIS Muslims, are proving to be Strong as Iron crushing everything in it's path. - More Moderate Muslims, not adhering to them are breaking away as Iron does not mix with Clay. Consider the image of the feet of clay mixed with iron. Most commentators agree that this indicates some sort of confederacy of nations. It indicates a loose binding of nations mixed with iron the symbol of military power. Consider also that the United Nations is the ONLY such global organization to have appeared in history. The UN consists of a loose membership of every nation on the planet and at one time, at least, boasted a limited military presence to buffer aggression. Iron and clay. Granted that the military arm is no longer used, due in part to aggression on the part of the USA which cannot be blocked by UN action or sanction. UN military was once a factor in international peacekeeping. Therefore the UN fits the description of the feet of Daniel's idol. and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted December 10, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2014 I wonder about Daniel's Prophecy from The Image's Head of the golden era of Babylonian (Culture) which prevails through unto this 4th final kingdom Standing on the Feet of Iron & Clay are The Muslims today. "There shall be a 4th kingdom Strong as Iron just as Iron crushes and shatters everything it shall crush and smash all these like Iron that crushes all the earth. the feet and toes partly of Iron and partly of potter's Clay. So the kingdom will be partly Strong and partly Brittle. The Iron mixed with clay so will they intermingle with one another in marriage. But they will not hold together. Just as Iron does not mix with Clay." (From the Hebrew Dead Sea Scrolls Bible) Da.2:40-43 - ISIS Muslims, are proving to be Strong as Iron crushing everything in it's path. - More Moderate Muslims, not adhering to them are breaking away as Iron does not mix with Clay. Consider the image of the feet of clay mixed with iron. Most commentators agree that this indicates some sort of confederacy of nations. It indicates a loose binding of nations mixed with iron the symbol of military power. Consider also that the United Nations is the ONLY such global organization to have appeared in history. The UN consists of a loose membership of every nation on the planet and at one time, at least, boasted a limited military presence to buffer aggression. Iron and clay. Granted that the military arm is no longer used, due in part to aggression on the part of the USA which cannot be blocked by UN action or sanction. UN military was once a factor in international peacekeeping. Therefore the UN fits the description of the feet of Daniel's idol. and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft... I agree and also think it's significant that Israel became a state via UN resolution shortly after the formation of the UN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted December 10, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.89 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Consider the image of the feet of clay mixed with iron. Most commentators agree that this indicates some sort of confederacy of nations. It indicates a loose binding of nations mixed with iron the symbol of military power. Consider also that the United Nations is the ONLY such global organization to have appeared in history. The UN consists of a loose membership of every nation on the planet and at one time, at least, boasted a limited military presence to buffer aggression. Iron and clay. Granted that the military arm is no longer used, due in part to aggression on the part of the USA which cannot be blocked by UN action or sanction. UN military was once a factor in international peacekeeping. Therefore the UN fits the description of the feet of Daniel's idol. and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft... ============================================================================================================== Consider the image of the feet of clay mixed with iron. Most commentators agree that this indicates some sort of confederacy of nations. It indicates a loose binding of nations mixed with iron the symbol of military power. Most Commentators Agree? Well Consensus (even the unnamed variety in this case) doesn't = TRUTH. They (The "Most") also have some Serious Reading Comprehension Issues or "a priori" adherence's (My guess is Both).... (Daniel 2:43) "And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay." Question: Whoever is mingling with the seed of men ....can they be the seed of men without the passage being Redundant and Nonsensical? (Daniel 2:44) "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." Therefore the UN fits the description of the feet of Daniel's idol. How so? Who's the Iron Legs? The Toes are still made up of Iron, they also = The "Ten Horns" (Ten Kings) of the Great and Terrible Beast of Daniel 7. Who's this.... (Daniel 9:26-27) "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. {27} And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." If the People of 'the prince" were the ROMANS that destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD.... who was the "prince" of those people? Is the "he" in Verse 27 (which is referring to the Antecedent in Verse 26 of "the prince"), A "Type"---- antichrist? regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted December 10, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2014 I'm starting to lean toward the notion that Enoch2021 is actually a bot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted December 10, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.89 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I'm starting to lean toward the notion that Enoch2021 is actually a bot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seandavids Posted December 10, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 244 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/10/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) I would be sure to grasp one important fact of the whole four beast and kings and kingdoms and everything else tied to these visions and dreams concerning the end times, and that would be they are Satanic Edited December 10, 2014 by seandavids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjp34652 Posted December 11, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 448 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 156 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2014 Consider the image of the feet of clay mixed with iron. Most commentators agree that this indicates some sort of confederacy of nations. It indicates a loose binding of nations mixed with iron the symbol of military power. Consider also that the United Nations is the ONLY such global organization to have appeared in history. The UN consists of a loose membership of every nation on the planet and at one time, at least, boasted a limited military presence to buffer aggression. Iron and clay. Granted that the military arm is no longer used, due in part to aggression on the part of the USA which cannot be blocked by UN action or sanction. UN military was once a factor in international peacekeeping. Therefore the UN fits the description of the feet of Daniel's idol. and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft... ============================================================================================================== Consider the image of the feet of clay mixed with iron. Most commentators agree that this indicates some sort of confederacy of nations. It indicates a loose binding of nations mixed with iron the symbol of military power. Most Commentators Agree? Well Consensus (even the unnamed variety in this case) doesn't = TRUTH. They (The "Most") also have some Serious Reading Comprehension Issues or "a priori" adherence's (My guess is Both).... (Daniel 2:43) "And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay." Question: Whoever is mingling with the seed of men ....can they be the seed of men without the passage being Redundant and Nonsensical? (Daniel 2:44) "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." Therefore the UN fits the description of the feet of Daniel's idol. How so? Who's the Iron Legs? The Toes are still made up of Iron, they also = The "Ten Horns" (Ten Kings) of the Great and Terrible Beast of Daniel 7. Who's this.... (Daniel 9:26-27) "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. {27} And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." If the People of 'the prince" were the ROMANS that destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD.... who was the "prince" of those people? Is the "he" in Verse 27 (which is referring to the Antecedent in Verse 26 of "the prince"), A "Type"---- antichrist? regards To begin, your rejection of commentaries is unworthy of a student of scripture. To do so is to invite heresy in the extreme and the tissue thin suppositions of a subjective opinion at best. I submit to the reader the following from two noted commentaries. I could write more, but think 2 should suffice. After all, if one will not believe anything except his own mind, what's the point? WYCLIFFE BIBLE COMMENTARY "Nebuchadnezzar's Dream of a Great Image: A Prophecy of the Times of the Gentiles.." a. "The Head of Gold, a King of Kings is a title customarily applied to Medo-Persian and Babylonian emperors found in Greek classics and in the records of the countries involved..." The Head of Gold represents the King of Babylon. b. "The breast and arms of silver represent the kingdom of the Medes and Persians which replaced the Babylonians." c. "The Belly and Thigh of brass - History and scripture agree that this was the Greek (Macedonian) empire of Alexander and his successors." d. "The forth kingdom of iron is the form of world dominion known to the Bible and History as Rome. (Note:) Some see in the vision of two legs the division of the Roman Empire into two branches; Rome and Byzantium/Constantinople" e. "The word in verse 41 'pliga' means 'to divide' and occurs only in the OT. It is rendered by 'Young' and 'Buxtorf' as meaning 'composite'. ... In its final stage this kingdom will be brittle and easily shattered. This is owing to the mixture in symbol of the clay with the iron." (from Choir loft) My use of the word 'confederacy' may perhaps have intruded into private political sensibilities here. According to the above 3 commentary reviews the vision is more aptly defined as 'composite'. THE INTERPRETER'S ONE VOLUME COMMENTARY 1. "The four metals of the statue represent 4 successive kingdoms or empires." 2. "The 1st is the neo-Babylonian empire of Nebuchadnezzar." 3. "The second is evidently that of the Medes - contemporary with the Babylonian rather than a successor to it." 4. "The third is the Greek-Macedonian empire of Alexander." 5. "The forth is symbolically divided west and east (Rome and Byzantium/Constantinople" 6. "The feet of iron and clay support the idea of a succession of dynasties. Iron and Clay suggest strength and weakness in a single kingdom." (from Choir Loft; The Interpreter's version of the image agrees with other commentaries except with regard to the image's feet. A dynasty is a succession of family based or political governments. Gentile history may be viewed in this context, although the wording is a bit strange to me. The final statement, that the mingled kingdom is of strength and weakness would also agree with the interpretation of a 'composite' world empire. A gathering of nations, but a fragile one at best. There is no other candidate since the days of Rome that fulfills such as description except that of the United Nations. It is indeed a loose mingling or composite of nations albeit a very fragile one.) and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft... PS As someone wrote earlier, it does appear that God's design for the UN was to allow the modern State of Israel to achieve legitimate status among nations. The UN military, now defunct, was used in the first decade and a half to guard Israel's borders. This was its primary purpose although UN troops were occasionally used to suppress the actions of war lords in African nations at that time. Today those duties have been assumed by European and American military interests directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjp34652 Posted December 11, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 448 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 156 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2014 I wonder about Daniel's Prophecy from The Image's Head of the golden era of Babylonian (Culture) which prevails through unto this 4th final kingdom Standing on the Feet of Iron & Clay are The Muslims today. - ISIS Muslims, are proving to be Strong as Iron crushing everything in it's path. - More Moderate Muslims, not adhering to them are breaking away as Iron does not mix with Clay. On the Islamic interpretation quoted above; While I do believe that the Muslim influence in the world WILL indeed play a pivotal role in man's history for the next several hundred years at least, I disagree with this interpretation. ISIL/ISIS group are not as strong as you suggest. Initially created by the American intelligence community, with financial support of the GCC (1), and enjoying the bureaucratic organization of the SNC (2) it is both attacked by and supported with US oversight. The western process is more accurately described as being schizophrenic in nature (3), rather than the single minded focus of a coherent government. ISIS/ISIL is the military equivalent of a patsy organization, a military and political target created by the west (America) for the sole purpose of removing the present Syrian government from Assad without Russian incursion or military intervention. If a third party (ISIL, al Qaeda, Taliban etc.) can be blamed and/or targeted by Moscow, the USA gains plausible deniability in the affair.(4) "There is no such thing as moderate Islam. There is only Islam." - Recep Tayyip Erdogan Prime Minister of Turkey The feet of iron and clay in the vision of the prophet Daniel represent a fragile global assembly of nations. As of this date, that does not imply a Muslim empire. In point of fact, Islam is itself divided into two major groups; Sunni and Shiite/Shia. There are several other groups or types, but as they are rather small in number and political influence, they do not play a role in the unfolding of history or in the determination of international Islamic policy. The present conflict in the Levant is based upon the 1400 year old contest of division between the two major factions of Islam. When PM Erdogan made his statement, he was referring to Surah 9 of the Glorious Q'uran(5). Surah (or chapter) 9 is used as the justification for jihad or struggle. The famous five pillars of the Muslim faith do not include jihad, but many Muslims today believe jihad ought to be included in the list as a sixth pillar. Therefore, any statement that Islam is becoming 'moderate' is purely baseless. There is no real evidence to support such an assumption. If the reader disagrees with any of my statements above, let him consult GOOGLE the all knowing oracle of the cybernetic age. and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft... (1) GCC - Gulf Cooperation Council member nations are; Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. (2) SNC - Syrian National Council is organized for the support of opposition to the Syrian Assad government. The offices are located in Istanbul, Turkey. (3) Of two minds, of two separate and distinct bureaucratic and political directions. US Federal government policy both foreign and domestic is incoherent/dysfunctional. (4) The war with ISIL is more accurately termed a shadow war. Everybody knows what's going on, its just not an 'official war'. (5) 'Glorious Q'uran' is a Muslim term of endearment for the book. Definitely not my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seandavids Posted December 11, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 244 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/10/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2014 Your passage is response to a question about US marrying and Juxtaposes that with Angels in Heaven, it speaks nothing to the mischievous acts of FALLEN angels who aren't in Heaven... (Mark 12:23-24) "In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife. And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?" Fully Supported Discussion here: Hope it helps Despite The Medieval Woodcuts To The Contrarily, I Believe Along With J. Vernon McGee Fallen Angels Do Not Had Sex And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose Genesis 6:1–2 This matter of "the sons of God" and "the daughters of men" is something that has caused no end of discussion. There are a great many good men who take the position that "the sons of God" were angels. I personally cannot accept that at all. Most of my teachers taught that the sons of God were angels, and I recognize that a great many of the present-day expositors take that position. However, I cannot accept that view, because, if these were good angels, they would not commit this sin, and evil angels could never be designated as "sons of God." Also, the offspring here were men; they were not monstrosities. I do not know why it is assumed by so many that the offspring were giants. http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer's%20Corner/Doctrines/giants.htm And As For Those Giants, David And the Philistine said to David, Come to me, and I will give thy flesh unto the fowls of the air, and to the beasts of the field. Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied. This day will the LORD deliver thee into mine hand; and I will smite thee, and take thine head from thee; and I will give the carcases of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel. And all this assembly shall know that the LORD saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the LORD's, and he will give you into our hands. And it came to pass, when the Philistine arose, and came and drew nigh to meet David, that David hasted, and ran toward the army to meet the Philistine. And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth. So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David. 1 Samuel 17:44-50 And Company Polished Then Off And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant. And when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea the brother of David slew him. These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants. 2 Samuel 21-20-22 ~ And As For The End But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. Matthew 24:36-42 This Earthly All Consuming Sinning Just Comes Back Around Again There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Genesis 6:4-5 interesting thing about that verse concerning where the giants are located Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted December 11, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.89 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Consider the image of the feet of clay mixed with iron. Most commentators agree that this indicates some sort of confederacy of nations. It indicates a loose binding of nations mixed with iron the symbol of military power. Consider also that the United Nations is the ONLY such global organization to have appeared in history. The UN consists of a loose membership of every nation on the planet and at one time, at least, boasted a limited military presence to buffer aggression. Iron and clay. Granted that the military arm is no longer used, due in part to aggression on the part of the USA which cannot be blocked by UN action or sanction. UN military was once a factor in international peacekeeping. Therefore the UN fits the description of the feet of Daniel's idol. and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft... ============================================================================================================== Consider the image of the feet of clay mixed with iron. Most commentators agree that this indicates some sort of confederacy of nations. It indicates a loose binding of nations mixed with iron the symbol of military power. Most Commentators Agree? Well Consensus (even the unnamed variety in this case) doesn't = TRUTH. They (The "Most") also have some Serious Reading Comprehension Issues or "a priori" adherence's (My guess is Both).... (Daniel 2:43) "And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay." Question: Whoever is mingling with the seed of men ....can they be the seed of men without the passage being Redundant and Nonsensical? (Daniel 2:44) "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." Therefore the UN fits the description of the feet of Daniel's idol. How so? Who's the Iron Legs? The Toes are still made up of Iron, they also = The "Ten Horns" (Ten Kings) of the Great and Terrible Beast of Daniel 7. Who's this.... (Daniel 9:26-27) "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. {27} And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." If the People of 'the prince" were the ROMANS that destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD.... who was the "prince" of those people? Is the "he" in Verse 27 (which is referring to the Antecedent in Verse 26 of "the prince"), A "Type"---- antichrist? regards To begin, your rejection of commentaries is unworthy of a student of scripture. To do so is to invite heresy in the extreme and the tissue thin suppositions of a subjective opinion at best. I submit to the reader the following from two noted commentaries. I could write more, but think 2 should suffice. After all, if one will not believe anything except his own mind, what's the point? WYCLIFFE BIBLE COMMENTARY "Nebuchadnezzar's Dream of a Great Image: A Prophecy of the Times of the Gentiles.." a. "The Head of Gold, a King of Kings is a title customarily applied to Medo-Persian and Babylonian emperors found in Greek classics and in the records of the countries involved..." The Head of Gold represents the King of Babylon. b. "The breast and arms of silver represent the kingdom of the Medes and Persians which replaced the Babylonians." c. "The Belly and Thigh of brass - History and scripture agree that this was the Greek (Macedonian) empire of Alexander and his successors." d. "The forth kingdom of iron is the form of world dominion known to the Bible and History as Rome. (Note:) Some see in the vision of two legs the division of the Roman Empire into two branches; Rome and Byzantium/Constantinople" e. "The word in verse 41 'pliga' means 'to divide' and occurs only in the OT. It is rendered by 'Young' and 'Buxtorf' as meaning 'composite'. ... In its final stage this kingdom will be brittle and easily shattered. This is owing to the mixture in symbol of the clay with the iron." (from Choir loft) My use of the word 'confederacy' may perhaps have intruded into private political sensibilities here. According to the above 3 commentary reviews the vision is more aptly defined as 'composite'. THE INTERPRETER'S ONE VOLUME COMMENTARY 1. "The four metals of the statue represent 4 successive kingdoms or empires." 2. "The 1st is the neo-Babylonian empire of Nebuchadnezzar." 3. "The second is evidently that of the Medes - contemporary with the Babylonian rather than a successor to it." 4. "The third is the Greek-Macedonian empire of Alexander." 5. "The forth is symbolically divided west and east (Rome and Byzantium/Constantinople" 6. "The feet of iron and clay support the idea of a succession of dynasties. Iron and Clay suggest strength and weakness in a single kingdom." (from Choir Loft; The Interpreter's version of the image agrees with other commentaries except with regard to the image's feet. A dynasty is a succession of family based or political governments. Gentile history may be viewed in this context, although the wording is a bit strange to me. The final statement, that the mingled kingdom is of strength and weakness would also agree with the interpretation of a 'composite' world empire. A gathering of nations, but a fragile one at best. There is no other candidate since the days of Rome that fulfills such as description except that of the United Nations. It is indeed a loose mingling or composite of nations albeit a very fragile one.) and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft... PS As someone wrote earlier, it does appear that God's design for the UN was to allow the modern State of Israel to achieve legitimate status among nations. The UN military, now defunct, was used in the first decade and a half to guard Israel's borders. This was its primary purpose although UN troops were occasionally used to suppress the actions of war lords in African nations at that time. Today those duties have been assumed by European and American military interests directly. ============================================================================================= This is a bit "over the top", don't ya think... To begin, your rejection of commentaries is unworthy of a student of scripture. To do so is to invite heresy in the extreme and the tissue thin suppositions of a subjective opinion at best. I'm unworthy of a student of Scripture and "Heresy" for the rejection of "Commentaries". What on Earth? Can you please point to the Scripture that talks about "heresy" in relation to Bible Expositions and Commentaries....? "Nebuchadnezzar's Dream of a Great Image: A Prophecy of the Times of the Gentiles.." a. "The Head of Gold, a King of Kings is a title customarily applied to Medo-Persian and Babylonian emperors found in Greek classics and in the records of the countries involved..." The Head of Gold represents the King of Babylon. b. "The breast and arms of silver represent the kingdom of the Medes and Persians which replaced the Babylonians." c. "The Belly and Thigh of brass - History and scripture agree that this was the Greek (Macedonian) empire of Alexander and his successors." d. "The forth kingdom of iron is the form of world dominion known to the Bible and History as Rome. (Note:) Some see in the vision of two legs the division of the Roman Empire into two branches; Rome and Byzantium/Constantinople" THE INTERPRETER'S ONE VOLUME COMMENTARY 1. "The four metals of the statue represent 4 successive kingdoms or empires." 2. "The 1st is the neo-Babylonian empire of Nebuchadnezzar." 3. "The second is evidently that of the Medes - contemporary with the Babylonian rather than a successor to it." 4. "The third is the Greek-Macedonian empire of Alexander." 5. "The forth is symbolically divided west and east (Rome and Byzantium/Constantinople" 6. "The feet of iron and clay support the idea of a succession of dynasties. Iron and Clay suggest strength and weakness in a single kingdom." I've posted Literally Hundreds of Posts here on Worthy Outlining this exact position; Ergo, your entire ensemble here..... and Baseless Assertions (Fallacy) thereof, are nothing but "contrived" Strawman (Fallacies). This is but one of those Hundreds: The final statement, that the mingled kingdom is of strength and weakness would also agree with the interpretation of a 'composite' world empire. A gathering of nations, but a fragile one at best. It's not. It's the Iron (ROME) mixed with the Miry Clay. And it tells you why it's brittle and why they will not cleave.... (Daniel 2:43) "And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay." It couldn't be any more clear if it was stamped on your forehead. There is no other candidate since the days of Rome that fulfills such as description except that of the United Nations. So after we burn down all the Strawman (Fallacies) we finally get to cases. The IRON is the compelling factor in this Matter. You say it's the UN.....I say it's the ROMAN Empire Revived. As you rightly pointed out, there were 2 Legs to the Roman Empire: the (Western Leg) which dissolved around 400 AD and the Eastern Leg (Byzantine) that lasted for another 1,000 years. The IRON Legs (ROME), then-------> The IRON Toes (ROME, Ten Kings) mixed with the Miry Clay; (Future Kingdom). UN doesn't = ROME The European Union = ROME (Western Leg). The ac will come from ROME ------> (The Eastern Leg) which covered....Assyria. He's an Assyrian; SEE: Isaiah (10:5, 10:24, 14:25, 31:8), and Micah (5:5, 5:6). SEE Full discussion, here: UN Member Nations: Albania Algeria Andorra Angola Antigua and Barbuda Argentina Armenia Australia Austria Azerbaijan Bahamas Bahrain Bangladesh Barbados Belarus Belgium Belize Benin Bhutan Bolivia Bosnia and Herzegovina Botswana Brazil Brunei Bulgaria Burkina Faso Burundi Cambodia Cameroon Canada Cape Central African Republic Chad Chile China Colombia Comoros Congo (Republic of the) Costa Rica Côte d’Ivoire Croatia Cuba Cyprus Czech Republic Democratic People’s Republic of Korea Democratic Republic of the Congo Denmark Djibouti Dominica Dominican Republic Ecuador Egypt El Salvador Equatorial Guinea Eritrea Estonia Ethiopia Fiji Finland France Gabon Gambia Georgia Germany Ghana Greece Grenada Guatemala Guinea Guinea-Bissau Guyana Haiti Honduras Hungary Iceland India Indonesia Iran Iraq Ireland Israel Italy Jamaica Japan Jordan Kazakhstan Kenya Kiribati Kuwait Kyrgyzstan Lao People’s Democratic Republic Latvia 1 Lebanon Lesotho Liberia 2 Libya Liechtenstein Lithuania Luxembourg Madagascar Malawi Malaysia Maldives Mali Malta Marshall Islands Mauritania Mauritius Mexico Micronesia (Federated States of) Monaco Mongolia Montenegro Morocco Mozambique Myanmar Namibia Nauru Nepal Netherlands New Zealand Nicaragua Niger Nigeria Norway Oman Pakistan Palau Panama Papua New Guinea Paraguay Peru 3 Philippines Poland Portugal Qatar Republic of Korea Republic of Moldova Romania Russian Federation Rwanda Saint Kitts and Nevis Saint Lucia Saint Vincent and the Grenadines Samoa San Marino Sao Tome and Principe Saudi Arabia Senegal 2 Serbia Seychelles Sierra Leone Singapore Slovakia Slovenia Solomon Islands Somalia South Africa South Sudan Spain Sri Lanka Sudan Suriname Swaziland Switzerland Sweden Syria Tajikistan Thailand The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia Timor Leste Togo Tonga Trinidad and Tobago Tunisia Turkey Turkmenistan Tuvalu Uganda Ukraine United Arab Emirates United Kingdom United of Republic of Tanzania United States Uruguay Uzbekistan Vanuatu Venezuela Viet Nam Yemen Zambia Zimbabwe UN = 193 Nations, which you could more or less say most of the nations on the planet and is readily apparent.... this is not ROME, the (IRON). Juxtaposed with This is the IRON..... Perhaps it's time to stop "hollering" and get to the "Rightly Dividing"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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