The Rapture

[Dad Ernie]

Sorry? Well maybe you are, but I know you are the one that said you were still puzzled at Daniel 9:26, not me.  I have no problem with this prophecy whatsoever.  You are the one trying to make a case for a 3 1/2 year ministry, and that the tribulation will only be 3 1/2 years in duration.  I'm just waiting for you to prove it.  All I see so far is assumptions based on your own personal interpretation and speculation.  Sure, Jesus began His ministry by doing signs, wonders and miracles, but this has nothing to do with the 70th week, especially when it occurred before the 69th week had ended, and scripture is very, very clear that He was cut off after the 69th week, yet you must begin your version of the 70th week before Messiah was even cut off, 3 1/2 years before.  Why would God begin the 70th week before the 69th was finished?  Is there overlapping weeks?  Just call me on the partyline and let me know when you are finally able to prove this.

Greetings RT,

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Okay, verse by verse. Tell me when Messiah was to come in the 70 week time frame?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[rollinTHUNDER]

Greetings RT,

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Okay, verse by verse. Tell me when Messiah was to come in the 70 week time frame?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Greetings DE,

I was was waiting to see how you put it together. Are you giving up so soon, or just trying to put the shoe on the other foot?

You probably won't like my understanding because it doesn't fit your belief of a 3 1/2 year tribulation, but the verse you just quoted above really provides a strong clue that kinda simplifies this mystery.

I don't agree with the entire book, but I like the way that David Jeremiah lays out Daniel's 70 weeks in his book, "The Handwriting on the wall."

But I'm still waiting for your version.

[Dad Ernie]

I was was waiting to see how you put it together.  Are you giving up so soon, or just trying to put the shoe on the other foot? 

Sorry RT, if you won't respond, we need not discuss this any further. You have been bought by a lie and it appears you are not going to think this one out on your own.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[rollinTHUNDER]

I was was waiting to see how you put it together.

[rollinTHUNDER]

It looks like no one wants to take a shot at proving this 3 1/2 year tribulation theory, so let the record show that it is pure speculation and hype until proven otherwise. Those that believe this theory would suggest that Messiah came when He performed His first miracle in Cana, and others might say He came when He got baptized by John the Baptist in the wilderness of the River Jordan.

Messiah came to Israel at the appointed time, but it wasn't when He was born in a manger in the town of Bethlehem, it wasn't in the River Jordan or in Cana, where He performed His first miracle. No, it was just as the Prophet Zechariah said. It wasn't until He came riding into Jerusalem on the colt of an ass. And when Messiah comes again, Jerusalem will once again be the place where He will make His Triumphal Entry and be declared the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Not Cana, not Bethlehem, not Nazareth, not Galilee, not the River Jordan, but Jerusalem.

[Dad Ernie]

Greeting RT,

It looks like no one wants to take a shot at proving this 3 1/2 year tribulation theory, so let the record show that it is pure speculation and hype until proven otherwise.

The "proof" you ask for is in the "salvation of the Jews". This was the whole intent of the Daniel Covenant. It was Messiah that was to come and restore them to righteousness and we do not see that yet according to Romans 9-11. Jesus' entire ministry was "to the lost sheep of Israel", yet they rejected Him. But there remains a day for their salvation which will be during the "great tribulation". Sorry you can't see that.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[rollinTHUNDER]

But there remains a day for their salvation which will be during the "great tribulation". Sorry you can't see that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where do you get this idea DE? Certainly not from my words. I believe that all Israel will be saved just like scripture says. I only question your 3 1/2 year theory. Your belief claims that Jesus confirmed a 7 year covenant. Now, I'm giving you the oppurtunity to prove this.

But isn't this blasphemy in reverse?

Instead of giving credit to Satan for something God has done, you appear to be giving Christ credit for something that the little horn will do.

[Dad Ernie]

Instead of giving credit to Satan for something God has done, you appear to be giving Christ credit for something that the little horn will do.

Greetings RT,

The 70th week of Daniel is all about Messiah's salvation of the Jews. 3 1/2 years he preached "to the lost sheep of Israel". Since they rejected Him, which was in God's plan to bring in the gentiles, God has given them another day - 3 1/2 years at the end of time in which ALL ISRAEL shall be saved. What do you think the word "consummation" means in Daniel 9?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[rollinTHUNDER]

The 70th week of Daniel is all about Messiah's salvation of the Jews. 3 1/2 years he preached "to the lost sheep of Israel". Since they rejected Him, which was in God's plan to bring in the gentiles, God has given them another day - 3 1/2 years at the end of time in which ALL ISRAEL shall be saved. What do you think the word "consummation" means in Daniel 9?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Come on DE,

We all know what the 70 weeks are for. We all know that Israel rejected Him, and why. But you keep beating around the bush.

Scholars can't even agree on the time that Christ was crucified, yet you claim that He ministered for 3 1/2 years. First, Can you prove this with scripture? Second, can you prove His ministry began the 70th week? Third, can you tell us why God would start the 70th week before He finished the 69th? Fourth, can you tell us what exactly was the 7 year covenant Christ confirmed?

We all know that this is what you believe, but we're still waiting for you to prove it.

[Dad Ernie]

Scholars can't even agree on the time that Christ was crucified, yet you claim that He ministered for 3 1/2 years.  First, Can you prove this with scripture?  Second, can you prove His ministry began the 70th week?  Third, can you tell us why God would start the 70th week before He finished the 69th?  Fourth, can you tell us what exactly was the 7 year covenant Christ confirmed?

Greetings RT,

Have you ever examined Dan 9's 70th and 62 weeks? Historically Darius the Mede ruled in part with his father Ahasuerus and then apparently took the throne from 538-536 BC. Darius was born about 601/600 BC which made him about 62 in 539 BC which was the fall of Babylon.

With those dates, it becomes nearly impossible to determine where the 70 or 62 weeks actually began and ended. So it is necessary to examine the text and see if there are any clues that might help affix the date within the 490 years or even the 434 years, there being a difference of 56 years between these two.

Here is what we are given:

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Some argue that all this has been fulfilled, and indeed it has FOR THE GENTILES. But according to the promise of the Daniel Covenant, the 70 weeks is that time which is given for Israel to be restored to righteousness with God. It contains no relevance to the interim period wherein GENTILES will receive the Gospel message.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

According to Wycliffe's Bible Encyclopedia, there are 3 main theories regarding this. The most reasonable is that the Messiah came at the end of the 69th week. And that this last week He would fulfill the Daniel 9 Covenant, BY the end of the 70th week. Now one week of years is 49 years. Jesus was about 33 at the age of His death, so this pretty much leaves out His birth at being the reference to the Messiah's coming. Jesus did not actively begin His ministry to the Jews until He was about 30 years old. During this whole ministry He went to "the Lost Sheep of Israel".

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

We know by this that at the END of the 62 weeks, Messiah would be cut off, so if we were able to determine exact dates, we would have to examine this time frame moving BACKWARDS IN TIME from the approximate date of 33 AD. This 434 year period PRIOR to the Lord's crucifixition leaves me at a loss as to what occurred on or about 401 BC. I have found nothing in history to correlate to this date.

Also you take this passage as pointing to Satan as being the destroyer of the city, which in fact it is not, it was the "people" that destroyed the city and they were directed by the hand of God to do so. God has always used EVIL nations to come against Israel when they were in rebellion. Josephus recognizes that Jerusalem's destruction was at the hand of God in his book of the Wars.

One more point on this passage regards "and unto the end of the war desolations are determined". In the Olivet Discourse, in Mt. 24, Jesus tells us that wars and rumours will continue unto the very end.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The word "He" here is of course relating to the Messiah's NEW COVENANT which He actually began preaching "first to the Jews, then to the gentiles" (see Romans). In Hebrews is goes into much more detail on this NEW COVENANT.

The word "many" here is in reference to ALL the souls saved from the time Jesus began His ministry until the time of His 2nd Advent.

And it goes on to say that in the middle of the 70th week, "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation". This occurred at the cross, and there can be no doubt about it.

Also it reveals another important bit of knowledge. The word "Consummation" here means the "fulfillment of the Daniel 9 Covenant", and what that reveals is there shall be NO TEMPLE REBUILT in Jerusalem, even until the Lord's 2nd advent. The temple was "desolated" in 70 A.D. and remains that way even today, even to the end of the age.

So there are all my cards RT. You have nothing but conjecture and your pre-trib paradigm to support you, which is all sand.

So now, YOU take your best shot and PROVE to me that you are correct.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie