Who Populates the Millennial Kingdom?

[S.T. Ranger]

This thread is primarily for those that believe there will be a Millennial Kingdom, and I would just ask our a-mil and preterist brethren to understand we already know how you would answer the question.

The timing of the Rapture is debated among us, and while reading a thread earlier someone asked where in the Bible do we see a Pre-Trib Rapture (which is the view I take)? The question posed in the title is given primarily to the second of the two primary views (post and pre), though Mid-Trib believers are very much welcome to join in (because I have seldom had the chance to speak with someone with this view, as it is not one we see expressed or defended very often (though I think it is a more reasonable view than post)).

One obvious problem with a post-trib view is going to be, if you have the entire Church (as Paul taught) resurrected (including both living and dead saints) at the end of the Tribulation...this leaves no physical believers to populate the Kingdom (from whom come the descendants that rebel against God at the end of the Millennial Kingdom). This takes into account two primary beliefs, that (1) unbelievers cannot enter into that Kingdom and (2) that the Tribulation is global, rather than secluded to the Middle East, as our Progressive Dispensational brethren believe. These two, and any relevant issues are open for support or opposition.

God bless.

[Salty]

What kind of dreamed up fallacy is the idea that the resurrection means not... being upon the earth???

 

Zechariah 14

³ Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

⁴ And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

⁵ And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.

 

That's Jesus returning... the day of His coming, with His saints, at the timing Apostle Paul proclaimed in 1 Thessalonians 4 & 5. That means the gathering of the saints yet alive on earth on that day with the 'asleep' saints He brings with Him, happens at a moment, and then they all... go with Jesus to holy land, ON EARTH, where He and they will reign over the nations for the "thousand years" of Revelation 20.

 

 

Acts 1

⁹ And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

¹⁰ And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

¹¹ Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

¹² Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

 

 

Did those who resurrected on the day of Christ's crucifixion in Jerusalem immediately pop-up into the clouds like Jesus ascended? NO!!!! They went and showed themselves to their brethren in Jerusalem, on earth!!!

 

The Pre-trib Rapture school has spent so much money and time trying to dream up dwellings in Heaven off the earth for themselves with the resurrection, that all that money and time would have been better spent learning how to rightly divide God's Word like Apostle Paul said for Timothy.

[S.T. Ranger]

What kind of dreamed up fallacy is the idea that the resurrection means not... being upon the earth???

I guess it is thought that throwing the word "fallacy" around is supposed to have some kind of impact.

The only fallacy is to improperly identify a fallacy, which you have not yet done.

Zechariah 14

³ Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

⁴ And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

⁵ And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.

Not a single mention of resurrection.

That's Jesus returning... the day of His coming, with His saints, at the timing Apostle Paul proclaimed in 1 Thessalonians 4 & 5. That means the gathering of the saints yet alive on earth on that day with the 'asleep' saints He brings with Him, happens at a moment, and then they all... go with Jesus to holy land, ON EARTH, where He and they will reign over the nations for the "thousand years" of Revelation 20.

Agreed, this does depicts the Lord's Return and in fact shows that the physical inhabitants will flee...not be resurrected in the twinkling of the eye.

 

Acts 1

⁹ And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

¹⁰ And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

¹¹ Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

¹² Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

 

 

Did those who resurrected on the day of Christ's crucifixion in Jerusalem immediately pop-up into the clouds like Jesus ascended? NO!!!! They went and showed themselves to their brethren in Jerusalem, on earth!!!

Funny that you post this text then ask a question from another.

Above, we see the Angels (two men) refer to Christ's return, which correlates to the quote from Zechariah above as well as to Revelation 19.

Again...no mention of resurrection.

But to answer your question, the resurrection which takes place here...

Matthew 27:52-53 King James Version (KJV)

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

...is obviously not the resurrection depicted in Paul's teaching about the Rapture. First, it does not clearly state all believers are resurrected, as we see in Paul's teaching; secondly, the resurrection and catching away described by Paul has to follow the teaching itself, which was long after this incident; third, seeing that Paul states that all in Christ will be raised at the Rapture, this is best understood to be a physical resurrection only, in which their bodies (like that of Lazarus) are raised, but the resurrection is physical only.

It is doubtful that these saints were raised in glorified bodies, because that would have likely raised a stir and garnered more attention and mention than this resurrection received.

God bless.

[missmuffet]

Only believers will populate the 1000 year millennium.At the end of the tribulation there will be a hand full of believers who have survived it.There will be unbelievers as well.Jesus explains in the Parable of the Sheep and Goats  Matthew 25:31-46 which is part of the Olivet Discourse.The sheeps are the believers who will be Blessed and given an inheritance and will enter into the millennium.The unbelievers which are the goats will be cursed and are doomed to eternal hell fire.There will be some who will come against God during the 1000 year millennium and at the end of the 1000 years will come against God with Satan in a huge battle.

[Salty]

 

What kind of dreamed up fallacy is the idea that the resurrection means not... being upon the earth???

I guess it is thought that throwing the word "fallacy" around is supposed to have some kind of impact.

The only fallacy is to improperly identify a fallacy, which you have not yet done.

 

Salty: the idea of not living upon the earth after the resurrection is the 'point' of the usage of the word fallacy. And to proof such an idea is... in fact a fallacy, the Zech.14 evidence is given.

 

Zechariah 14

³ Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

⁴ And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

⁵ And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.

Not a single mention of resurrection.

 

Salty: so when you study a subject at school, did you have to keep repeating lesson 1 even after you reached lesson 10, i.e., just because you don't see the word "resurrection" there does not mean it's not involved in that. As a matter of fact, you should... be intelligent enough to realize that... for anyone... to come WITH Jesus to that location in that timing, it would require the resurrection.

 

That's Jesus returning... the day of His coming, with His saints, at the timing Apostle Paul proclaimed in 1 Thessalonians 4 & 5. That means the gathering of the saints yet alive on earth on that day with the 'asleep' saints He brings with Him, happens at a moment, and then they all... go with Jesus to holy land, ON EARTH, where He and they will reign over the nations for the "thousand years" of Revelation 20.

Agreed, this does depicts the Lord's Return and in fact shows that the physical inhabitants will flee...not be resurrected in the twinkling of the eye.

Salty:  the Zech.14:5 verse is about two events, the first about Jesus' warning for those in Judea to flee Jerusalem in prep for His coming because of that area being flattened (i.e., the "sudden destruction" Paul mentioned in 1 Thess.5). The saints referred to there are the 'asleep' saints Jesus brings with Him, per 1 Thess.4. So in actuality, that is revealing... His saints are on earth still at that moment of Zech.14:5 not changed, but will be immediately during those events of Christ's return there to the Mount of Olives.

 

 

Acts 1

⁹ And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

¹⁰ And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

¹¹ Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

¹² Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

 

 

Did those who resurrected on the day of Christ's crucifixion in Jerusalem immediately pop-up into the clouds like Jesus ascended? NO!!!! They went and showed themselves to their brethren in Jerusalem, on earth!!!

Funny that you post this text then ask a question from another.

Above, we see the Angels (two men) refer to Christ's return, which correlates to the quote from Zechariah above as well as to Revelation 19.

Again...no mention of resurrection.

 

Salty: you're being silly, my correlation is about the events of Jesus' second coming which ALSO involves the time of the resurrection! Did you miss the point there about Jesus' COMING AGAIN, FROM HEAVEN? Do I have to get you to re-read Lesson 1 again?

But to answer your question, the resurrection which takes place here...

Matthew 27:52-53 King James Version (KJV)

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

...is obviously not the resurrection depicted in Paul's teaching about the Rapture. First, it does not clearly state all believers are resurrected, as we see in Paul's teaching; secondly, the resurrection and catching away described by Paul has to follow the teaching itself, which was long after this incident; third, seeing that Paul states that all in Christ will be raised at the Rapture, this is best understood to be a physical resurrection only, in which their bodies (like that of Lazarus) are raised, but the resurrection is physical only.

It is doubtful that these saints were raised in glorified bodies, because that would have likely raised a stir and garnered more attention and mention than this resurrection received.

Salty:  since when does the word 'resurrection' in God's Word NOT mean a raising from the dead? One can assume they had not received rewards yet which are only handed out after Jesus' return. But resurrected, they were, just as Christ was raised from the dead. Yet to think they were raised to new flesh bodies to die again corrupts the Hebrews passage that declares we are appointed only once to die.

 

Your not understanding their resurrection at that point in time means you really haven't understood what the idea of being raised from the dead means, i.e., the spiritual aspects of it. Your fleshy mind is telling you something different. As per God's Holy Writ, the angels that appeared to Abraham and Lot were able to eat physical food, even as our Lord Jesus did after His resurrection. And the two angels sent to Lot appeared as men, even to the sodomites who thought they were two flesh men. Thus the idea of the resurrection being about a new flesh, or a ghost body, shows lack of understanding on the subject. Their being resurrected then at Jesus' crucifixion and appearing to those in Jerusalem does not mean they appeared as ghosts, nor that they had new flesh bodies only to have to die again later. It is more proper Biblically to suppose they appeared, and then were gathered in the heavenly where the 'asleep' saints are, Apostle Paul's "asleep" idea simply being a metaphor to show that those in Christ even after flesh death, always have a spirit that is living and never dead.

 

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi S.T.Ranger,

 

I`ll just answer the first point now but have many other thoughts for later.

 

Who Populates the Millennial Kingdom?

 

1. The 1/3rd  of Israelis who were in the land of Israel. 

 

`...but I will bring one-third through the fire, will refine them as silver is refined, & test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name, & I will answer them. And I will say, "This is my people" And each will say, "The Lord is my God."` (Zech. 13: 9)

 

2. Israelis from other parts of the world.

 

`"And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the Lord out of all the nations, on horses & in chariots & in litters, on mules & on camels, to My holy mountain," says the Lord.` (Isa. 66: 19 & 20)

 

3. Those who were beheaded for their witness of Jesus & for the Word of God,...... (in the great tribulation).

 

`And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus & for the word of God, who had not worshipped the beast or his image, & had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. And they lived & reigned with Christ for a thousand years.` (Rev. 20: 4)

 

4. The Sheep nations who looked after the persecuted Jews in the great tribulation.

 

`Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry & you gave me food; I was thirsty & you gave me drink; I was a stranger & you took me in; I was naked & you clothed me; I was sick & you visited me; I was in prison & you came to me.......inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.` (Matt. 25: 34 - 36, & 40) 

 

 

Marilyn.

[S.T. Ranger]

What kind of dreamed up fallacy is the idea that the resurrection means not... being upon the earth???

I guess it is thought that throwing the word "fallacy" around is supposed to have some kind of impact.

The only fallacy is to improperly identify a fallacy, which you have not yet done.

Salty: the idea of not living upon the earth after the resurrection is the 'point' of the usage of the word fallacy. And to proof such an idea is... in fact a fallacy, the Zech.14 evidence is given.

I never denied living on the earth after a resurrection. I gave the example of Lazarus to distinguish between bodily resurrection and the redemption of the body we call glorification, the first of which is the Resurrection of Christ.

And again, The quote from Zechariah does not mention resurrection. You are imposing something into the text which is simply not there. So be more careful about charging others with fallacy.

Zechariah 14

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

]5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.

Not a single mention of resurrection.

Salty: so when you study a subject at school, did you have to keep repeating lesson 1 even after you reached lesson 10, i.e., just because you don't see the word "resurrection" there does not mean it's not involved in that. As a matter of fact, you should... be intelligent enough to realize that... for anyone... to come WITH Jesus to that location in that timing, it would require the resurrection.

Look, if you can't follow the conversation, great, I'll try to work with that. But let me remind you that the issue centered around the Rapture, which Paul, in the First Century, taught was a resurrection which involved the changing of the body of those that are still living...and have never died.

Understand?

That is what is commonly known as glorification, and is not speaking of only a bodily resurrection from the dead. We will be glorified which will make our bodies suited to an eternal existence. When Lazarus died and was bodily resurrected, he did not go to Heaven, but remained on the earth. He was not glorified, and I can tell you why we know that:

1 Corinthians 15:20 King James Version (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Colossians 1:18 King James Version (KJV)

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

No-one raised before Christ was raised in a glorified body.

No-one.

That's Jesus returning... the day of His coming, with His saints, at the timing Apostle Paul proclaimed in 1 Thessalonians 4 & 5. That means the gathering of the saints yet alive on earth on that day with the 'asleep' saints He brings with Him, happens at a moment, and then they all... go with Jesus to holy land, ON EARTH, where He and they will reign over the nations for the "thousand years" of Revelation 20.

Agreed, this does depicts the Lord's Return and in fact shows that the physical inhabitants will flee...not be resurrected in the twinkling of the eye.

Salty: the Zech.14:5 verse is about two events, the first about Jesus' warning for those in Judea to flee Jerusalem in prep for His coming because of that area being flattened (i.e., the "sudden destruction" Paul mentioned in 1 Thess.5).

You only give one of the "two."

And we can see Paul's instruction to the saints in your choice of proof-text:

1 Thessalonians 5 King James Version (KJV)

5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

The warning from Christ is for the generation that sees the events which transpire. We do not need the warning, because that day will not overtake us as a thief. Why? Because we will not be here.

The saints referred to there are the 'asleep' saints Jesus brings with Him, per 1 Thess.4.

"Asleep" and "sleep" are simply euphemisms for death. Bodily death. You can see that in the account of Lazarus when the disciples mistook the Lord's reference to Lazarus being asleep as to mean he was simply taking rest. He says clearly "Lazarus is dead."

You can also see that in the two verses posted above: one speaks of sleep, the other says death, both refer to the same thing.

"Soul Sleep" is a false doctrine embraced by those that refuse to accept the Word of God as it is written and must change the meanings to support their doctrine. It is a shame but this doctrine has gained popularity in Modern Christendom in the last twenty years.

So in actuality, that is revealing... His saints are on earth still at that moment of Zech.14:5 not changed, but will be immediately during those events of Christ's return there to the Mount of Olives.

So show that in the quote from Zechariah.

The only ones we can dogmatically state are resurrected at the Lord's Return are the Tribulation Martyrs.

Acts 1

9 And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Did those who resurrected on the day of Christ's crucifixion in Jerusalem immediately pop-up into the clouds like Jesus ascended? NO!!!! They went and showed themselves to their brethren in Jerusalem, on earth!!!

Funny that you post this text then ask a question from another.

Above, we see the Angels (two men) refer to Christ's return, which correlates to the quote from Zechariah above as well as to Revelation 19.

Again...no mention of resurrection.

Salty: you're being silly, my correlation is about the events of Jesus' second coming which ALSO involves the time of the resurrection! Did you miss the point there about Jesus' COMING AGAIN, FROM HEAVEN? Do I have to get you to re-read Lesson 1 again?

My friend, your proof-text is irrelevant. No-one said Zechariah doesn't speak of the Lord's Return, in either passage quoted, but the point is that there is no resurrection of the living ever stated in correlation to the Lord's Return apart from the Tribulation Martyrs.

So the point you seem to be missing is that Paul's teaching concerning the Rapture is that everyone in the Church is resurrected into glorified bodies.

Another would be that resurrection is a foundational doctrine already revealed, the Rapture was a Mystery revealed by Paul in the First Century.

In the Rapture Christ is never said to return to earth, and in His Second Coming He does. Not only that, but when He does, the believing that are left alive at the end of the Tribulation are not glorified, they are not resurrected at all.

How would they produce the descendants that will rebel against God and join Satan at the end of the Millennial Kingdom if they are glorified? The Lord taught that in the Resurrection we would be like the Angels, meaning...we would not be married. Which implies we will not have children.

Unless you want to suggest that glorified saints produce offspring which then populate the Kingdom and rebel against God.

Continued...

Edited December 22, 2014 by S.T. Ranger

[S.T. Ranger]

But to answer your question, the resurrection which takes place here...

Matthew 27:52-53 King James Version (KJV)

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

...is obviously not the resurrection depicted in Paul's teaching about the Rapture. First, it does not clearly state all believers are resurrected, as we see in Paul's teaching; secondly, the resurrection and catching away described by Paul has to follow the teaching itself, which was long after this incident; third, seeing that Paul states that all in Christ will be raised at the Rapture, this is best understood to be a physical resurrection only, in which their bodies (like that of Lazarus) are raised, but the resurrection is physical only.

It is doubtful that these saints were raised in glorified bodies, because that would have likely raised a stir and garnered more attention and mention than this resurrection received.

Salty: since when does the word 'resurrection' in God's Word NOT mean a raising from the dead?

No-one is arguing that. lol

As stated right there in the quote...it was a physical resurrection only. Now I could make this a little more complicated, which I was tempted to do in the first post:

Matthew 27:51-53 King James Version (KJV)

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

It could be viewed as they resurrected at the time of the Cross, for this is when the veil of the Temple was rent, the earth did quake, and the rocks rent. "And many bodies of the saints arose" could have happened at the time of the Crucifixion, and they simply did not come out until after the Resurrection of the Lord.

While I would not be dogmatic about this, if that is the case, that definitely denies they were glorified.

And again, if they were glorified, I would think this would have more mention in the Gospels and Epistles of the New Testament.

One can assume they had not received rewards yet which are only handed out after Jesus' return.

Glorification is not a reward, but a result of salvation.

Romans 8:29-30King James Version (KJV)

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The rewards of the saint are just that...reward. No aspect of salvation can be properly called reward.

But resurrected, they were, just as Christ was raised from the dead.

No, they were not, lol.

Christ was raised in a glorified body, the saints raised at His Crucifixion/Resurrection do not have to be assumed as having been glorified as well. Some believe this, and I am not dogmatic against it, it is a possibility. However, it is irrelevant to the discussion of the Rapture, because the Rapture, again, would not be revealed until Paul taught about it some years later.

That is what is relevant in this discussion and thread.

Yet to think they were raised to new flesh bodies to die again corrupts the Hebrews passage that declares we are appointed only once to die.

No, salty, it doesn't, because we have multiple resurrection of people that were raised only to die again.

Lazarus, for example, would be the firstborn from the dead if he had been glorified when resurrected.

Your not understanding their resurrection at that point in time means you really haven't understood what the idea of being raised from the dead means, i.e., the spiritual aspects of it.

On the contrary, not only have I understood it, but I am showing you the error of your arguments, lol.

The Rapture is a resurrection which involves a change in our bodies whether we have died or not. That is the spiritual aspect of resurrection which was a mystery.

Bodily resurrection was not a mystery to the Old Testament saint, because there was division among the sects as to whether there was going to be a resurrection or not.

So Paul's teaching, identified as a mystery, that is, a previously unrevealed truth, cannot be the resurrection of the dead as embraced by the Pharisees, for example. Or the one rejected by those ancient Annihilationist's...the Sadducees. They didn't believe in the resurrection of the dead (that is why they were sad, you see?)

Your fleshy mind is telling you something different.

My fleshly mind is thinking of responding to your rudeness with a little humor, but I will refrain from that if I can.

As per God's Holy Writ, the angels that appeared to Abraham and Lot were able to eat physical food,

Relevance?

God Himself appeared with those two Angels and had His feet washed, ate, and spoke face to face with Abraham. I view this as a Christophany, rather than just a Theophany, because it is just my belief that any time God has interacted with man directly it is the Son in view.

even as our Lord Jesus did after His resurrection.

Unlike the Lord's appearing to Abraham, the body which Christ arose in was the same body He died in, as evidenced by the scars. And there is no correlation between the physical manifestation of God and Angels in the Old Testament with the Incarnation or Resurrection of Christ. That body was specifically created in the womb of Mary for the express purpose of the Lord dying in it.

And the two angels sent to Lot appeared as men, even to the sodomites who thought they were two flesh men.

They were not men...they were Angels. Spirit beings with the capability of taking on physical form. Thus this is irrelevant.

Thus the idea of the resurrection being about a new flesh, or a ghost body, shows lack of understanding on the subject.

It is about the same flesh glorified, my friend. It could be called new as to it's properties, now being spiritual bodies, but it is not a new body we will be raised in, but the same one we reside/d in in our lifetimes.

Their being resurrected then at Jesus' crucifixion and appearing to those in Jerusalem does not mean they appeared as ghosts,

No-one said they did.

This is a false argument.

nor that they had new flesh bodies only to have to die again later.

Not new flesh bodies, the same bodies bodily resurrected, not glorified. If they did receive glorified bodies, and this of course would have had to have been after Christ's own resurrection, then they could not possibly die again. The glorified body is suited to eternal existence.

It is more proper Biblically to suppose they appeared, and then were gathered in the heavenly where the 'asleep' saints are,

The only problem with this is that...you have no Biblical basis on which to make this statement. IT falls under a heading of speculation and cannot be called Biblical truth.

Apostle Paul's "asleep" idea simply being a metaphor to show that those in Christ even after flesh death, always have a spirit that is living and never dead

When Paul speaks of "sleep" he is referring to death, which has nothing to do with the spirit.

We know that a man's spirit lives on after death, even those of unbelievers, who will also be resurrected in bodies suited for an eternal existence.

Open that can of worms and chew on it.

God bless.

[S.T. Ranger]

Just trying to fix the code in a previous post. This forum has some things I m having difficulty with.

Edited December 22, 2014 by S.T. Ranger

[S.T. Ranger]

Hi S.T.Ranger,

 

I`ll just answer the first point now but have many other thoughts for later.

 

Who Populates the Millennial Kingdom?

 

1. The 1/3rd  of Israelis who were in the land of Israel. 

 

`...but I will bring one-third through the fire, will refine them as silver is refined, & test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name, & I will answer them. And I will say, "This is my people" And each will say, "The Lord is my God."` (Zech. 13: 9)

 

2. Israelis from other parts of the world.

 

`"And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the Lord out of all the nations, on horses & in chariots & in litters, on mules & on camels, to My holy mountain," says the Lord.` (Isa. 66: 19 & 20)

 

3. Those who were beheaded for their witness of Jesus & for the Word of God,...... (in the great tribulation).

 

`And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus & for the word of God, who had not worshipped the beast or his image, & had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. And they lived & reigned with Christ for a thousand years.` (Rev. 20: 4)

 

4. The Sheep nations who looked after the persecuted Jews in the great tribulation.

 

`Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry & you gave me food; I was thirsty & you gave me drink; I was a stranger & you took me in; I was naked & you clothed me; I was sick & you visited me; I was in prison & you came to me.......inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.` (Matt. 25: 34 - 36, & 40) 

 

 

Marilyn.

Hello Marilyn, I would agree for the most part with the exception of point #4: I do not view this as a reference to "Sheep Nations" in a national sense, but those who come out of other nations, as well as including those of Israel as well.

While I have you, perhaps you can tell me why, like in the post just before yours, I think (the first response to Salty), the code decides to go nuts with multiple "(/quotes) at the bottom and won't let me fix them. I go into EDIT and remove the code but when I save changes...they are right back in there.

Also, I have figured out how to utilize the emphasis prompts by switching the prompt above B, but I still cannot change the text size.

Any advice?

God bless.