why weeks don't mean weeks in Daniel

[Kan]

Try this model - day for a year.

 

I----------------------------------------------------------------------------------2300 days----------------------------------------------I

I--------------------------------70 weeks----------------------I  Are determined upon thy people Daniel 9:24

I--------------------------------69 weeks--------I                   From the command to restore Jerusalem to messiah verse 25 

             I----------------------62 weeks -------I                   From the walls completed to Messiah verse 26

                                                                   I--1 week--I Middle of week Messiah ends sacrificial system verse 27

 

                                                                                                                   I-------------3 1/2 years------------I Dan 7:25, 12:7

                                                                                                                        = 1260 days

                                                            From the set up of the abomination I------------------1290 days--------------I Dan 12:11

                                          Blessed is he who comes to the end of these days I-------------1335 days---------------------------I                                                                                                                                                                                              verse 12

 

The crucifixion happens in 31 AD, from there we can work out the other dates. The 1335 days come to the time that Daniel says a judgement is in sitting. Dan 7:9,10 and 13. The Papacy (the antichrist) reigns from 538 to 1798, it set up its reign in 508 AD. 

The beginning of the 2300 days starts with the command to rebuild Jerusalem coming into effect or "going forth" which was done by Artaxerxes in 457 BC. The time for the Jewish nation to honor the messiah ended with the stoning of Steven in 34 AD.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Kan

[Cyrus]

.

Daniel was taken into the Babylonian captivity as a child. He was raised up during Babylon's 70 year rule.

Daniel was familiar with Jeremiah's prophecy that Babylon's rule would only last 70 years and he counted

the number of years and determined that Babylon's time was up. Indeed that was what the mysterious

handwriting on Babylon's wall... that Daniel interpreted... also said... " Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin. "

Those are Aramaic words which when translated literally read: counted and counted, weighed and divided.

This relates to Daniel 12 = time, times and half-time = the time period of Babylon's rule and the destruction

of the power of the holy people = 70 years. On that very night the mysterious handwriting appeared

on Babylon's palace wall, Cyrus' troops conquered Babylon via a secret invasion. One might even say

that Cyrus conquered Babylon suddenly and unexpectedly "like a thief"... Cyrus is an archetype of Christ.

At the beginning of Daniel 9, Daniel was in prayer because he knew the timing... that Babylon's 70 years

had ended... and God would deliver Israel. Gabriel tells Daniel that at the beginning of his prayer the

commandment went out. What commandment ? Cyrus' decree for a portion of Israel to return to

Jerusalem and rebuild the temple [Ezra 1.] Gabriel then tells Daniel the mysterious "70 weeks" prophecy

which also symbolically dovetails with Babylon's 70 years, Israel's destruction, captivity and liberation.

Notice the number 62 in the "70 weeks" prophecy. Interestingly, this relates to the first verse of Daniel 9,

"Darius the Mede." Many Bible scholars [me included] believe "Darius the Mede" is another title for Cyrus.

That means Cyrus was 62 years old when he conquered Babylon [Daniel 5:31.]

Ironically, the world is now in a repeat historical pattern... another 70 year Babylonian rule and captivity.

We are also in a repeat historical pattern as the first coming of Christ.

.

I'm in the process of reading Jeremiah again but I believe a quick look at chapter 25 concerning the seventy years it was decreed the seventy years were alloted to be in captivity in Babylon, and in Daniels prophecy he was told the prophesy concerns the end of time

I don't believe the two are talking about the same thing

.

In the OT, Babylonian rule lasted 70 years as prophesied by Jeremiah.

The 70 years began with the death of righteous King Josiah and ended when

righteous King Cyrus conquered Babylon. Cyrus is an archetype of Christ.

In the NT, there is a similar period that begins with Herod's siege of Jerusalem (37 BC)

and ends with the crucifixion, resurrection and ascension of Christ.

I believe we are now in a third similar time period which began at the end of WW2.

That would be an important sign... considering 2015 is 70 years from WW2.

.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Cyrus

[Kan]

It's an interesting application of Jeremiah.

The apostles recognized that the prophets of old testified of things which would happen in the last days of earth's history, but which was happening in their day in type. So that history had lessons for the future.

[Ezra]

I am perplexed at how so many theologians have interpreted Daniel 9 and the seventy sevens to be interpreted as weeks of years

You have not explained why "weeks" in Daniel 9 are not weeks of years.  As a matter of fact, they are not literally weeks but "sevens" (shabua) in Hebrew, and they pertain to periods of 7 years each. 

 

That this is indeed the correct interpretation is confirmed by the fact that exactly 483 years (69 weeks) elapsed between the decree of Cyrus to "restore and to build Jerusalem" and the crucifixion of Christ ("Messiah be cut off").  See Chronology of the Old Testament by Martin Anstey. 

 

There is another and final 7 year period which is yet future, since the Abomination of Desolation must be set up in the middle of that week. That passage is DEFINITELY NOT about anything which will happen in "the heavenly realm" as you have surmised. We cannot simply spiritualize prophecies on a whim.

 

Preterists believe that this has already happened back in 70 A.D. but that is clearly fantasy.  Had the Abomination of Desolation actually been set up, this earth and this world would not be as they are.  All the judgments of the 6th and 7th seals of Revelation would have already come upon the earth, and we would now be in a genuine Millennium (not a pretend Millennium).

[ghtan]

That this is indeed the correct interpretation is confirmed by the fact that exactly 483 years (69 weeks) elapsed between the decree of Cyrus to "restore and to build Jerusalem" and the crucifixion of Christ ("Messiah be cut off").  See Chronology of the Old Testament by Martin Anstey. 

 

Hi Ezra. Given that Cyrus' decree can be dated to 539BC and the cross to 30AD, how does that work out to exactly 483 years in between?

Edited March 1, 2015 by ghtan

[Ezra]

 

That this is indeed the correct interpretation is confirmed by the fact that exactly 483 years (69 weeks) elapsed between the decree of Cyrus to "restore and to build Jerusalem" and the crucifixion of Christ ("Messiah be cut off").  See Chronology of the Old Testament by Martin Anstey. 

 

Hi Ezra. Given that Cyrus' decree can be dated to 539BC and the cross to 30AD, how does that work out to exactly 483 years in between?

 

The question has been answered very well based strictly on dating within the Bible from Bible chronology itself.  Martin Anstey wrote the scholarly Chronology of the Old Testament (1913 The Romance of Bible Chronology) based strictly on the Hebrew Masoretic Text and the Authorized Version (KJV).

 

On that basis, the year of man (Anno Hominis or AH) began with Adam and the decree of Cyrus was 3589 AH. Using BC 4 as the year of the birth of Christ, B.C. 1 was 4042 AH.  Using Ptolemy's chronology, BC 1 was 4124 AH, a difference of 82 years (Anstey proved that Ptolemy's chronology, though helpful, was not completely accurate: "Ptolemy may be called as a witness.  He cannot be allowed to arbitrate as a Judge").

 

If you deduct 82 years from BC 536 you get BC 454. If that is the true date for the decree of Cyrus, then you get exactly 483 years to the crucifixion in 30 AD (deduct 1 year for the purpose of calculation since there is no BC 0).

[ghtan]

 

The question has been answered very well based strictly on dating within the Bible from Bible chronology itself.  Martin Anstey wrote the scholarly Chronology of the Old Testament (1913 The Romance of Bible Chronology) based strictly on the Hebrew Masoretic Text and the Authorized Version (KJV).

 

 

On that basis, the year of man (Anno Hominis or AH) began with Adam and the decree of Cyrus was 3589 AH. Using BC 4 as the year of the birth of Christ, B.C. 1 was 4042 AH.  Using Ptolemy's chronology, BC 1 was 4124 AH, a difference of 82 years (Anstey proved that Ptolemy's chronology, though helpful, was not completely accurate: "Ptolemy may be called as a witness.  He cannot be allowed to arbitrate as a Judge").

 

If you deduct 82 years from BC 536 you get BC 454. If that is the true date for the decree of Cyrus, then you get exactly 483 years to the crucifixion in 30 AD (deduct 1 year for the purpose of calculation since there is no BC 0).

 

 

It seems to me that all this hinges on Anstey being able to date Cyrus' decree to 3589AH and BC1 to 4042AH. How does he arrive at these figures? If they are based on OT chronology alone, as you suggest, I would be very sceptical because there is simply too little information within the OT to date events after the Babylonians sacked Jerusalem.

[Ezra]

 

It seems to me that all this hinges on Anstey being able to date Cyrus' decree to 3589AH and BC1 to 4042AH. How does he arrive at these figures? If they are based on OT chronology alone, as you suggest, I would be very sceptical because there is simply too little information within the OT to date events after the Babylonians sacked Jerusalem.

 

You should take some time to study this book. I believe you would be satisfied with the painstaking work he has done to arrive at these dates.  His complete reliance on Scripture as the final authority is good to see.

[ghtan]

 

 

It seems to me that all this hinges on Anstey being able to date Cyrus' decree to 3589AH and BC1 to 4042AH. How does he arrive at these figures? If they are based on OT chronology alone, as you suggest, I would be very sceptical because there is simply too little information within the OT to date events after the Babylonians sacked Jerusalem.

 

You should take some time to study this book. I believe you would be satisfied with the painstaking work he has done to arrive at these dates.  His complete reliance on Scripture as the final authority is good to see.

 

 

Hard to be motivated to read a book whose conclusions I already find implausible. Thanks anyway.

[WilliamL]

...There is another and final 7 year period which is yet future, since the Abomination of Desolation must be set up in the middle of that week. That passage is DEFINITELY NOT about anything which will happen in "the heavenly realm" as you have surmised. We cannot simply spiritualize prophecies on a whim.

 

Preterists believe that this has already happened back in 70 A.D. but that is clearly fantasy.  Had the Abomination of Desolation actually been set up, this earth and this world would not be as they are.  All the judgments of the 6th and 7th seals of Revelation would have already come upon the earth, and we would now be in a genuine Millennium (not a pretend Millennium).

 

Nothing in Daniel 9:24-27 speaks about an abomination of desolation being set up. (Unless you use a translation that totally butchers the Hebrew.) Here is a literal interpretation of the passage of vs. 27 in question:

 

And upon a wing/corner/extremity, desolating/appalling abominations, even unto a consummation, that being decreed shall pour out/forth upon the desolate(d place?).

 

The last “week” of years of this passage doesn’t mention at all

any abomination of desolation of the Holy Place;

the time of the end/latter time/latter days, or any similar phrase;

the Great Tribulation/time of trouble such as never was;

the saints, or any flight of God’s people;

Messiah’s coming in the clouds, Divine Judgment, and/or the establishment of God’s kingdom;

the demise of an antichrist;

or the raising of the dead.

 

In contrast, everything described in Dan. 9:26b-27 perfectly describes in accurate detail the events of 66-70 AD. While this is what Preterists also believe, that is irrelevant, because other prophecies in Daniel, such as much of Dan. 7 and all of Dan. 12, have clearly not yet been fulfilled.