FOR ALL YOU BUSH FANS

[nebula]

Hey, Steff!

May I ask you something about your time in Iraq?

Did you make the attempt to share Jesus with them?

Just wondering.

[Guest Plissken]

again...the only fact is that we are cleaning up the neighborhood in Fallujah. How does that make us corrupt?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not a fact that we are cleaning up. How do you know that? Although I believe the US did use chemical weapons in Fallujah, because they were losing badly there, I'm not going to say for a fact that they did use chemical weapons.

How is spraying buildings and homes that are already destroyed with water cleaning up? What.....we want to make the rubble look clean?

[Guest Plissken]

=ted,Jan 21 2005, 08:30 PM

Name one country where a democratic government we installed is working as intended.

Japan?

Korea?

Nicargua?

Panama?

.....

I don't know about Japan, Nicaragua, or Panama, but Korea?

You cannot call a country ( my country ) where politicans fist fight each other on the senate floor/congress, nothing ever gets done, and is extremely corrupt, a working democratic government.

I know of one country that doesn't have a working democratic government.

American politicians don't fist fight each other, but nothing ever gets done here except harm to the poor and tax cuts for the rich. Like many politicians and corporations in Korea, politicians and corporations in America are extremely corrupt. Whole lot of corporations like Enron cooking their books.

Oh yeah, and the drug money that is flowing through wall street. *cough*bill clinton*cough*plan columbia*cough*afghanistan opium fields*cough*iran contra affair*cough.

Edited January 22, 2005 by Plissken

[Ovedya]

Or, you quit giving him money and he cleans up his act, gets a job and does what he's supposed to. Sometimes charity is wasted because the people don't know enough to do the right thing with it.

And this is coming from a self-confessed believer in Christ? Let me ask you, would the Lord Jesus have such an attitute toward those who cannot defend themselves? Would the apostles?

Frankly I'm alarmed that a believer would have this kind of attitude towards his fellow man. Didn't the Lord Himself tell us that if a man demands our cloak we should also offer him our tunic (Or undergarment)?

See, this is where you just don't get it, Steff. As a blessed nation - as a Christian nation - it is our moral responsibility to defend those who cannot defend themselves. And as the primary leader and global power it is our responsibility to spread freedom and democracy. Not because we can do it, but because we have the moral obligation to. To whom much is given much is required.

In probably the most famous inaugural address ever given, John F. Kennedy said the following:

" Vice President Johnson, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Chief Justice, President Eisenhower, Vice President Nixon, President Truman, reverend clergy, fellow citizens, we observe today not a victory of party, but a celebration of freedom

[Guest Plissken]

Ovedya Jan 22 2005, 03:39 PM

See, this is where you just don't get it, Steff.  As a blessed nation - as a Christian nation - it is our moral responsibility to defend those who cannot defend themselves.  And as the primary leader and global power it is our responsibility to spread freedom and democracy.  Not because we can do it, but because we have the moral obligation to.  To whom much is given much is required. 

Ovedya, how can we help other nations when our Christian nation can't even help its own people?

There are millions of Americans, of many different colors, nations, and cultures, who are living in poverty. Almost half of the American population is in prison, the majority being Blacks and Latinos, the minority being Whites.

Millions of people, especially in the inner cities, are drug addicts. The government, instead of getting at the root of the problem - the drug addicts - rarely or never supports drug rehabilitation clinics. A drug addict can walk into a clinic and they'll tell him, "Sorry come back another time. All our slots are filled up." Why? Because they don't have any money for more people. But guess what... there is no waiting line to go to jail.

Instead of getting to the root of the problem by supporting clinics and helping addicts to recover, we claim a "War on Drugs" that puts more people in jail.

DRUG ADDICTION IS A CHEMICAL DEPENDENCY PROBLEM. NOT A CRMINAL PROBLEM. ( Don't you think it's also funny that even though in Plan Columbia, they sprayed weedout on coca plants, coca plant production grew even more?)

A question to ask yourself is: Where are these drugs coming from? Think about it. Think about it. Think about it. Think about it. Well, one thing for sure is that they don't grow out of cement in the inner city or in the beautiful countryside in America.

It's sad that some people will say about other people, especially Blacks, "Why don't they get their act together? Why do they seem to commit so crime?" Is it inherent in their race to be addicted to drugs or prone to commit crimes? No, it is the social conditions surrounding them. The policies that politicans set to put more people in jail, cutoff welfare, etc. etc.

Do you know what a drug conspiracy charge is? Let's pretend that I was a drug dealer and you are my friend. You don't deal drugs but I do. One day I get caught and because of MANDATORY MINIMUM SENTENCING LAWS, I get sentenced to 20 years in prison for selling drugs (yes, 20 years. People do get sentenced 20 years for selling drugs). But my lawyer tells me if you rat on anyone that is invovled in drugs, we can reduce your sentence. So if I rat on you, JUST ON MY WORD YOU WILL GO TO PRISON for a long time (someone got 3 concurrent life sentences for being accused of by word but never proven with evidence).

It's sad that people = money in this country. Prisons are privatized these days and the more prisoners they get, the more money they make.

And the sad, sad, sad, problem of gentrification in the USA.....

Edited January 22, 2005 by Plissken

[Ovedya]

How is spraying buildings and homes that are already destroyed with water cleaning up? What.....we want to make the rubble look clean?

Ah.....Did you happen to notice that the WTC buildings were hosed down for several days after they collapsed? Ever see a building blown up and cleared away for new construction? Notice how they hose those buildings down too?

Simple answer: Hosing destroyed buildings down with water keeps the dust particles down, and keeps potentially harmful agents - such as asbestos - out of the air.

[Ovedya]

Ovedya Jan 22 2005, 03:39 PM

See, this is where you just don't get it, Steff.

[Guest Plissken]

Ovedya Jan 22 2005, 03:39 PM

See, this is where you just don't get it, Steff.  As a blessed nation - as a Christian nation - it is our moral responsibility to defend those who cannot defend themselves.  And as the primary leader and global power it is our responsibility to spread freedom and democracy.  Not because we can do it, but because we have the moral obligation to.  To whom much is given much is required.

Ovedya, how can we help other nations when our Christian nation can't even help its own people?

There are millions of Americans, of many different colors, nations, and cultures, who are living in poverty. Almost half of the American population is in prison, the majority being Blacks and Latinos, the minority being Whites.

Millions of people, especially in the inner cities, are drug addicts. The government, instead of getting at the root of the problem - the drug addicts - rarely or never supports drug rehabilitation clinics. A drug addict can walk into a clinic and they'll tell him, "Sorry come back another time. All our slots are filled up." Why? Because they don't have any money for more people. But guess what... there is no waiting line to go to jail.

Instead of getting to the root of the problem by supporting clinics and helping addicts to recover, we claim a "War on Drugs" that puts more people in jail.

DRUG ADDICTION IS A CHEMICAL DEPENDENCY PROBLEM. NOT A CRMINAL PROBLEM. ( Don't you think it's also funny that even though in Plan Columbia, they sprayed weedout on coca plants, coca plant production grew even more?)

A question to ask yourself is: Where are these drugs coming from? Think about it. Think about it. Think about it. Think about it. Well, one thing for sure is that they don't grow out of cement in the inner city or in the beautiful countryside in America.

It's sad that some people will say about other people, especially Blacks, "Why don't they get their act together? Why do they seem to commit so crime?" Is it inherent in their race to be addicted to drugs or prone to commit crimes? No, it is the social conditions surrounding them. The policies that politicans set to put more people in jail, cutoff welfare, etc. etc.

Do you know what a drug conspiracy charge is? Let's pretend that I was a drug dealer and you are my friend. You don't deal drugs but I do. One day I get caught and because of MANDATORY MINIMUM SENTENCING LAWS, I get sentenced to 20 years in prison for selling drugs (yes, 20 years. People do get sentenced 20 years for selling drugs). But my lawyer tells me if you rat on anyone that is invovled in drugs, we can reduce your sentence. So if I rat on you, JUST ON MY WORD YOU WILL GO TO PRISON for a long time (someone got 3 concurrent life sentences for being accused of by word but never proven with evidence).

It's sad that people = money in this country. Prisons are privatized these days and the more prisoners they get, the more money they make.

And the sad, sad, sad, problem of gentrification in the USA.....the priority of profit over people. Beautiful. Just beautiful. That's what capitalist America is all about right?

Edited January 22, 2005 by Plissken

[Guest Plissken]

How is spraying buildings and homes that are already destroyed with water cleaning up? What.....we want to make the rubble look clean?

Ah.....Did you happen to notice that the WTC buildings were hosed down for several days after they collapsed? Ever see a building blown up and cleared away for new construction? Notice how they hose those buildings down too?

Simple answer: Hosing destroyed buildings down with water keeps the dust particles down, and keeps potentially harmful agents - such as asbestos - out of the air.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I noticed that. And yeah of course they did it to keep the water particles down. That's common sense. Carpenters and construction workers do it all the time.

But.......eh, due to the new conspiracy theory (possible truth) policy which I invoked I guess I'm not supposed to say what I want to say.

[other one]

Or, you quit giving him money and he cleans up his act, gets a job and does what he's supposed to.  Sometimes charity is wasted because the people don't know enough to do the right thing with it.

Thank you for making my point for me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or when he gets despariate he may break into your house and kill your wife and kids while he is stealing what he needs to exist. It isn't as simple as that.