Divine Healing

[1to3]

 To do good without pride being involved

Even Christ Jesus said: don't call me good,

no one is Good but my Father.

 

As a human, Christ Jesus had both natures dueling in him like us. Yet it is recoded that he did not sin.

He had the blood of God in Him that was untainted to keep Him from sin, yet He was tempted just like you and me.

Satan came to tempt Jesus as it is recorded.

And Jesus always replied to satan with: It is written.

Because the pure holy scriptures of God have Gods life in them.

 

Christ Jesus before crucifixion knew of the heavy load He was about to carry and prayed to God.

And by faith Christ Jesus obeyed unto Hid crucifixion and death on the cross.

 

Christ being the Word, knew also the word and fulfilled all prophecy of the written Word about Him

up until the last minutes on the cross as He recited Psalm 22. Fulfilling and accomplishing Gods will for us all.

 

 

As for Paul, you have your answer with what you wrote:

 

2 Cor 12:7And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. ⁸ Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. ⁹ And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

 

 to do good without pride being involved

As a reminder to Paul, lest he should be exalted above measure by the abundance of revelation

[Hall7]

Qnts. I read and understand that God's answer to Paul's prayer was " My strength is made perfect in weakness.” To me, ( in context with what I mentioned earlier in the thread) it means that some stay closer to God through their sickness. Some often cease praying as they used to once everything is well with their worldly lives.

Jesus was tempted and afraid in His last days, He did have human emotions. It was His human emotions that didn't want to go through the suffering of the cross, God knew that, but He had to go through with it for man kind. That's why He didn't answer His prayers.

[Hall7]

Amen 1 to 3

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, shiloh357.

 

No, James was not saying that righteousness can get you the same results that Elijah had.    That doesn't even fit the context.  The entire context is about prayer and praying fervently.   No claim is made that "God will do for you what he did for Elijah.

 

The way your prayers are on the same page with God is when you pray according to his will, rather than trying to use prayer to strong arm God into doing what you think he should do.

 

The Bible never says that God will authenticate our preaching of the Gospel  by signs and wonders.   God authenticates our message in the heart of the person receiving the message.

 

Seriously?! That’s your take on James? Should we go to the Greek to prove it, or are you going to be bull-headed about that, too?

 

Let me try a simple question first: If it doesn’t matter what we ask because it is all up to God anyway whether He says, “yes,” “no,” or “wait,” THEN WHY BOTHER TO PRAY AT ALL? (I actually had an old, believing, school teacher once who argued that point! He didn’t think we needed to pray at all because [1] it was all up to God and His Sovereign foreknowledge, [2] He already knows what we need, and [3] He already knows that we love Him and knows what we are thinking all the time! So, what’s the point in praying?)

[Guest shiloh357]

if God already knows what he is going to do then why pray?   Simple enough.   We pray to be in fellowship with the Lord.  We pray in order to line ourselves up with His will.  Prayer is not about trying to get God to do what we want him to do.  

 

We pray because while prayer is not going to change God from doing what he already intends to do, it does change us.  Prayer is not for God's benefit, but for ours.   Prayer reminds us that we are completely dependent upon God in every circumstance, including those times when the answer to our prayers is not, "yes."

 

We pray for God's will to be done.  When we pray for his will to be done, it brings us in line with his will.   Prayers are only effective when they are prayed according to his will. 

 

The notion that faith is required for prayers to be answered isn't really true.   Again, faith is for us, not God.  God doesn't need our faith and faith isn't a force that causes God to act on our behalf.   Faith is what we apply when we pray according to God's will.  Our faith is strengthened only when learn God's will and pray accordingly. 

 

If God doesn't intend to heal you, no amount of fervent prayer is going to strong arm God into healing you.  Rather you pray in faith that God is working all things out for your good and you, by faith, submit to his will in everything.   He may heal, or he may not.   He determined that before you even knew you would get sick.  So it is up to you to submit to God's will by faith and know that he will provided the grace and peace you need whatever the outcome may be.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, shiloh357.

 

if God already knows what he is going to do then why pray?   Simple enough.   We pray to be in fellowship with the Lord.  We pray in order to line ourselves up with His will.  Prayer is not about trying to get God to do what we want him to do.  

 

We pray because while prayer is not going to change God from doing what he already intends to do, it does change us.  Prayer is not for God's benefit, but for ours.   Prayer reminds us that we are completely dependent upon God in every circumstance, including those times when the answer to our prayers is not, "yes."

 

We pray for God's will to be done.  When we pray for his will to be done, it brings us in line with his will.   Prayers are only effective when they are prayed according to his will. 

 

The notion that faith is required for prayers to be answered isn't really true.   Again, faith is for us, not God.  God doesn't need our faith and faith isn't a force that causes God to act on our behalf.   Faith is what we apply when we pray according to God's will.  Our faith is strengthened only when learn God's will and pray accordingly. 

 

If God doesn't intend to heal you, no amount of fervent prayer is going to strong arm God into healing you.  Rather you pray in faith that God is working all things out for your good and you, by faith, submit to his will in everything.   He may heal, or he may not.   He determined that before you even knew you would get sick.  So it is up to you to submit to God's will by faith and know that he will provided the grace and peace you need whatever the outcome may be.

 

RIGHT! “We pray to be in fellowship with the Lord!  We pray in order to line ourselves up with His will!” And, THAT’S the key! Why do we constantly think that it’s “God’s will vs. our will”? When our wills are ALIGNED, when we both want the same thing, then we think the same way! Thus, when we ask for something "ACCORDING TO HIS WILL," that is, ACCORDING TO WHAT HE WANTS, "HE HEARETH US!” (1 John 5:14)

 

1 John 5:15

15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we KNOW that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

KJV

 

And, that’s our CONFIDENCE! (1 John 5:14)

 

It’s just like in sports: I have always been ... uncomfortable ... with modern sports events. It’s always an “us versus them” mentality. (Sorry for the poor English. It’s colloquial.) With the proper Christian attitude, it should be a more “we together against the world” mentality. That is, we should be working together to accomplish what God wants. I’ve been learning that we shouldn’t focus on competition as much as cooperation, and I find that sadly lacking in modern sports! The closest thing to it is team cooperation. The team attitude - a unit of members working together for the synergy of the team - is a true benefit in modern sports; however, it stops at the borders of the various teams. Beyond those borders, the only benefits I see are in sportsmanship and sportsman-like conduct. Recognizing that the sport is just a GAME and that the true value found in the rivalry is just the FUN OF THE GAME, even fans of rival teams can get along with each other and enjoy the game together. Growing up in Wisconsin, I’ve been to house parties where fans of the Packers and the Bears (or the Vikings) can get together and just have fun watching a game between the teams. Sportsmanship can keep the right perspective on the rivalry and avoid it from escalating into something grotesque and unattractive. 

 

Something that I found FAR SUPERIOR to that was the team effort of scientists who were working on a common goal to accomplish something that solved a common problem - a common challenge! The “think tanks” that arise from such camaraderie can extend beyond college/university boundaries, hospital boundaries, and even national boundaries, in the struggle against a common enemy, like cancer!

 

So, why do we constantly think we are in opposition to God’s Will? WE SHOULD BE ON HIS SIDE!!! And,

 

2 Peter 3:9

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

KJV

 

Now, because I understand the linkage between the spirit and the body to make the soul, and that the “spirit" is INCOMPLETE without the body and the “soul" is NONEXISTENT without the body, a “spirit” (if such exists after death) would be unable to function adequately without the body and the person would be frustrated and incomplete without the body. That’s the need for the RESURRECTION OF OUR BODIES, for which we are instructed to anticipate.

 

A person doesn’t just “fly off to Heaven” when he dies, and who cares what happens to the body after that! We NEED our bodies resurrected - brought back to life! We’re INCOMPLETE without them!

 

Therefore, when I look at the above verse, I don’t divorce the “spiritual perishing” from the “physical perishing,” as some do. They remain LINKED! To be preserved from “spiritual perishing” involves being preserved or rescued from ultimate “physical perishing!” So, when Kefa (Peter) said, “The Lord is ... not willing that any should perish,” I believe that to be talking about the PHYSICAL as well as the “SPIRITUAL!"

 

GOD HATES DEATH! That’s the reason we find it will be eradicated in the future! (1 Cor. 15:26; Rev. 20:14; Rev. 21:4)

 

So, it is NOT God’s will that anyone should perish, not “spiritually" and not physically! While it is true that our bodies do eventually wear out and die and decay now, that is NOT how it has always been NOR is it the way it will always be! We currently live on an island of death and decay in the seas of eternity and eternal life!

 

Whether God performs the miracle now or later is also up to Him, but to accomplish the eradication of death, a miracle MUST be performed! That’s what the Resurrection will be - A MIRACLE OF CREATION AND A DEMONSTRATION OF HIS CREATIVE POWER! I’m not going to be like Martha, however:

 

John 11:21-27

21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.

22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ (the Messiah), the Son of God, which should come into the world.

KJV

 

She divorced the present, painful reality from the hypothetical, mythological future! Some people latch onto the prophecies of the future as though they were some fictitious fairy tale, separate from the present, miserable reality! She was saying, “Oh, I know he’ll be resurrected SOMEDAY in the 'sweet by-and-by!' (But, that’s not TODAY. <Sigh.>)” Yeshua` had to snap her out of it and said, "I - I - I am the Resurrection and the Life!” In other words, He was saying, "I’M the SOMEDAY! When I’M present, so is the RESURRECTION!"

[Guest shiloh357]

Yes, we always pray according to his will.   The problem is that I don't always know God's will when I start praying because God has not revealed at that point, which is why it is always appropriate to frame our requests as, "if it be your will."   

 

God doesn't always tell us why things happen and why he doesn't intervene.   He may say, "yes,"  "no," or "wait"   without giving an explanation.   And he doesn't owe us an explanation.

 

God's will may be to heal and it may not be.   We pray fervently because it avails much, not because we will get the results we want.   It can avail much even if the actual request isn't granted.  

 

The rest of what you posted is just a lot of stuff that has nothing to do with whether or not God  will 100% heal every time healing is requested, so I really have nothing to say to all of that and besides, it really doesn't appear to be arriving at  main point.

[Joshua-777]

God is a loving Father who loves to answer His children's prayers. From scripture it's clear that prayer is more than just rolling the dice hoping it lands on God's will, it's abiding in a relationship with God and out of intimacy with Him we know, desire, and want God's will.

It's interesting Jesus again and again promised that what ever we ask in His name, we will receive it, especially in relation to abiding in Him and keeping His commandment to love one another.

Mark 11:22 So Jesus answered and said to them, “Have faith in God. 23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. 24 Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them.

John 14:13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.

John 15:7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.

John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. 17 These things I command you, that you love one another.

1 John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

In Luke 11, Jesus talks of prayer and makes persistence a virtue in seeing answered prayer.

Luke 11:5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
Keep Asking, Seeking, Knocking

9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

There is a criteria though, selfishness, unbelief, and inequity will hinder our prayers. Jesus doesn't die answer prayer so we can pleasure ourselves, but so that He is glorified.

 

James 4:2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.
 

James 1:6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

My take is that we are all growing from glory to glory into the image of Jesus through the Holy Spirit. As we grow in this relationship and become more like Him we see our prayers answered because as we grow into who we are in Him, our desires are in line with His will. The answer is not a formula of faith but knowing Him more and more and in knowing Him, we become like Him.

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

John 15:7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.

[Guest shiloh357]

Prayer isn't rolling the dice, but at the same time, we don't always know God's will until he reveals it.   God will always answer prayer and yes he wants to answer prayer, but the answer we get isn't always the answer we seek.  

 

The problem with how some people approach prayer lies in the fact that they are believing God for promises he never made.  And then they are disappointed when they  don't get what they think they were promised.

 

The "whatever"  we ask in his name is balanced by the sovereign will God in all matters.   God is not under any obligation to give us whatever we ask and just as prayer is not rolling the dice, neither is it a blank check that we can fill in ourselves.

 

Persistence in prayer is good and we should be persistent.  The problem is that persistence isn't going to finally twist God's arm into giving us what we ask for.   Persistence in prayer is for our benefit not God's.   God doesn't need our prayers.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, shiloh357.

 

Prayer isn't rolling the dice, but at the same time, we don't always know God's will until he reveals it.   God will always answer prayer and yes he wants to answer prayer, but the answer we get isn't always the answer we seek.  

 

The problem with how some people approach prayer lies in the fact that they are believing God for promises he never made.  And then they are disappointed when they  don't get what they think they were promised.

 

The "whatever"  we ask in his name is balanced by the sovereign will God in all matters.   God is not under any obligation to give us whatever we ask and just as prayer is not rolling the dice, neither is it a blank check that we can fill in ourselves.

 

Persistence in prayer is good and we should be persistent.  The problem is that persistence isn't going to finally twist God's arm into giving us what we ask for.   Persistence in prayer is for our benefit not God's.   God doesn't need our prayers.

 

You’re still not getting it. It’s not “twisting God’s arm” to have Him answer our prayers in the affirmative; it’s simply “getting on board” with Him! Look, He already wants the best for our lives, and He already wants you and me to trust Him in all things. Do you have a God who loves you and wants the best for you, or not? Can’t you trust Him to give you good news? The “whatever” is LITERAL! It is LITERALLY whatever we ask! And, when we’re on the same page as He is, we don’t have to doubt whether God is amenable to our request! Just how big is your God, anyway?

 

"Persistence in prayer?” Have you never read the Messiah’s own words?

 

Luke 11:5-14

5 And he said unto them, Which of you shall have a friend, and shall go unto him at midnight, and say unto him, Friend, lend me three loaves;

6 For a friend of mine in his journey is come to me, and I have nothing to set before him?

7 And he from within shall answer and say, Trouble me not: the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give thee.

8 I say unto you, Though he will not rise and give him, because he is his friend, yet because of his importunity he will rise and give him as many as he needeth.

9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

14 And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.

KJV

 

Or, can you see what He was saying in this parable?

 

Luke 18:1-8

1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;

2 Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:

3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.

4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;

5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.

6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.

7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

KJV

 

God is NOT an “unjust judge,” as this man was! The widow may have had to nag the judge day after day to get anything done, but God is not like that! He JUMPS to the rescue for His own elect - His own chosen ones!

 

The last question, “Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" is VERY interesting! The Greek expects a NEGATIVE answer! “Shall He find faith (or trust) on the earth? (I doubt it.)” And, why should anyone have faith in God? Why should anyone trust God, if His answers are nebulously “No,” “Slow,” or “Go,” as Dr. David Jeremiah puts it? Perhaps we can hold Yeshua`s (Jesus’) ability to pray higher than our own, but why would we expect that of Eliyahu (Elijah)? He was just a human being like everybody else is! Why can’t we expect to be used as he was? Is it such an impossible thing for us to have the same status as the rest of the "heroes of faith" in Hebrews 11?

 

My God is big enough to answer my prayers because I trust Him and walk with Him in His righteousness, being in Yeshua`! EVERYONE can say the same! It’s not about the size of our faith! It’s about the size of our God and the size of His heart!