Divine Healing

[Guest shiloh357]

hmbld,

 

The reason we focus on these errors is because of the immense damage they do.   Years ago, there was a spate of these Charismatic leaders on TV who made extraordinary claims that were exposed as false. People put their trust in these men, even though they should not have.    But they have not learned their lesson, yet.

 

The errors of these teachers don't stop at healing.  They prey on vulnerable people who are physically sic, or are already impoverished and these teachers exploit the needs of their followers to make a quick $   by getting them to "plant seed"  in their ministry in hopes that God will heal  them. 

 

They tell them that healing is part of grace we receive at the cross and that Jesus died so that everyone can be healthy and wealthy and if you don't receive your healing it is because you don't have enough faith, or because of a sin in your life.   It's how they weasel around the sovereignty of God as if a sin you committed is more powerful than the sovereign will of God.

 

False teachings in one area affect negatively the whole biblical doctrine.   I have never seen a person who had only ONE false doctrine because biblical doctrine is interlocking and inter-relational.   For that reason, you cannot have a false doctrine in one area without it radiating out to and infecting other doctrines as well.   So one error can have wide ranging affects.

 

So when a faith healer is caught up in one false teaching, you will find that he has plethora of bad teachings to along with.

 

Doctrine (good or bad)  effects practical Christian living.  No one knows it all or is perfect in everything because we see through a glass darkly, but we have enough light to know what is true and what is not.   We don't have an excuse for allowing faith healers and prosperity teachers to thrive in our nation.   The church has let these people peddle their snake oil and too many people have bought into it.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, shiloh357.

 

Retro,

 

I was responding your condescending comment about maturing.  I was not claiming that I don't need to mature spiritually.   My point was that I don't need to "mature" in my understanding about the quacky notions surrounding divine healing that you subscribe to.

 

Nor, was a referring to the apostles when I mentioned false teachers, because you did not get your warped theology about healing from them.  You  won't admit it, but I have heard the same tired, warmed over stew from the Charismatics and Word of Faith teachers for years.  You are doing nothing but parroting them, and then presumptuously trying to blame your notions on the Bible.

 

I apologize for being condescending to you. I should not have referred to you, merely to what you were saying. You are my brother, and you are part of "the Messiah’s body" for the world as it exists today; so, I sincerely respect you and your teaching. I’ve heard it before in my past, and I have never stopped believing what you are saying.

 

I am NOT a Charismatic nor am I a Word of Faith teacher, nor have I been influenced by their teachings. 

 

Again, I do NOT believe in Faith Healing.

I believe in DIVINE Healing, as you do.

 

That being said, I understand that BOTH worlds, both those who do NOT believe in Faith Healing and those who do, understand that there is a lack of God’s power in our churches today. So, why do we lack God’s power and what’s causing it?

 

My point is that the answer to this dilemma is in the MESSAGE that we preach.

 

I’m NOT convinced that we should have 100% healing in our churches; however, we should have more than we do now ... and I’m NOT suggesting that we should focus on healing! This healing power is GOD’S and GOD’S ALONE, not in any one member. It was not in Peter alone, not in Paul alone, and not in any apostle alone! In fact, the promises are always to the GROUP of believers, the “church” if you would rather hear, but not to individuals.

 

Regardless, both Yeshua` and His disciples (all of them, not just the 12), were given power over sickness, diseases, and even over demons  WHEN THEY WERE HERALDING THE COMING OF THE KING to each town in Israel.

 

Luke 10:1, 8-9, 17

1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

...

8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:

9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

...

17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

KJV

 

Now, fast forward to the Olivet Discourse during the last week before Yeshua`s death:

 

Matthew 24:9-14

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved (rescued; delivered).

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached (heralded) in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

KJV

 

The pronouns tell the story here: In verse 9, Yeshua` is DIRECTLY addressing those disciples in front of Him. Verses 10-14 are talking about people in the THIRD person. Those verses are referring to people in their future. Since the “end” has not yet come, then verse 14 may be in our present or in our future. My suggestion is that it is YET in our future because the gospel of the KINGDOM that Yeshua` and His disciples heralded has not YET begun to be heralded, as prophesied.

 

That this is not the “gospel” that is “preached” today can be seen in how EARLY this gospel of the Kingdom was heralded in Mark:

 

Mark 1:14-15

14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

KJV

 

He was NOT talking about His “death, burial, and resurrection,” yet. Furthermore, who at that point in His ministry would have believed “His death, burial, and resurrection” anyway? Remember: Peter later rebuked Yeshua` for saying that He was soon going to die. (Matt. 16:21-22)

 

Although an argument from silence, Mark doesn’t say that He explained what this “gospel of the kingdom of God” even was! However, He just said that the time was fulfilled and that kingdom of God was within their grasp! They were instructed to turn around (repent) from their sins, and simply BELIEVE the gospel or the “good news.” WHAT “good news?” The “good news” that EVERY child of Israel knew and read about at least once EVERY year:

 

Isaiah 52:7

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings (gospel), that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings (gospel) of good, that publisheth salvation (rescue; deliverance); that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

KJV

 

God honored such declarations with His power in healing miracles.

 

Matthew 4:23-25

23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.

25 And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.

KJV

 

Matthew 12:14-21

14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;

16 And charged them that they should not make him known:

17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.

20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.

KJV

 

Isaiah 42:1-7

1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment (as a King) to the Gentiles.

2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.

3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.

4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

KJV

 

We know this is about Yeshua` but it is also about His role of being KING:

 

1 Kings 10:4-9

4 And when the queen of Sheba had seen all Solomon's wisdom, and the house that he had built,

5 And the meat of his table, and the sitting of his servants, and the attendance of his ministers, and their apparel, and his cupbearers, and his ascent by which he went up unto the house of the Lord; there was no more spirit in her.

6 And she said to the king, It was a true report that I heard in mine own land of thy acts and of thy wisdom.

7 Howbeit I believed not the words, until I came, and mine eyes had seen it: and, behold, the half was not told me: thy wisdom and prosperity exceedeth the fame which I heard.

8 Happy are thy men, happy are these thy servants, which stand continually before thee, and that hear thy wisdom.

9 Blessed be the LORD thy God, which delighted in thee, to set thee on the throne of Israel: because the LORD loved Israel for ever, therefore made he thee king, to do judgment and justice.

KJV

 

So, my question was: Why should God authenticate a message that He does not endorse? If we’re not heralding the good news about the Kingdom of God (and we’re NOT), then why should He authenticate it with His miracle-working power? It is my belief that He does not give us but a SAMPLING of His power because we BARELY know how to herald the King! Increase the message, and I believe that God will increase the authentication - the healing.

[Hall7]

If you won't listen to me Shiloh at least listen to Retrobiter and Joe, they speak more of your language than I do. Humble yourself...

[FresnoJoe]

The Word

 

I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. Philippians 4:12-13

 

For

 

For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalms 119:89

 

Today

 

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

[FresnoJoe]

Doctrine (good or bad)  effects practical Christian living.....

 

 No one knows it all or is perfect in everything because we see through a glass darkly....

 

but we have enough light to know what is true and what is not.... 

 

 

Good

 

Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Matthew 5:14-16

 

Doctrine

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12

 

Effects Practical Christian Living

 

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16

 

~

 

We don't have an excuse for allowing faith healers....

to thrive in our nation.... 

 

~

 

Beloved, No One Has

 

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. Romans 14:4

 

An Excuse To Disobey The LORD

 

So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

 

Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers,

Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them:

but gather the wheat into my barn. Matthew 13:27-30

 

Unless One Wishes The Seeds Of Bitterness Sprouting Deep Within One's Soul

 

Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: Ephesians 4:31

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

Now may the Lord of peace Himself continually

grant you peace in every circumstance.

The Lord be with you all! 2 Thessalonians 3:16 (NASB)

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest shiloh357]

Joe,

 

Challenging false doctrine being spewed from false teachers and frauds like Copeland and Hagin who take advantage of needy, gullible people isn't "bitterness."   It's what needs to be done.  These people are not servants of God and their teachings should have been rejected and they should be selling cars instead of fleecing the flock and deceiving masses of people.

[Guest shiloh357]

Retro,

 

Your theology is incoherent.   You have spent several long posts trying vigorously to convince me (in utter futility) that we should expect the same level of supernatural results that Elijah had when we pray.   You never qualified that assertion.   And yet you admit that we can't really expect that all of the time.

 

As for the preaching of the Kingdom....   Mark 1:14-15 tells us what Jesus preached.   He was going public as Israel's Messiah saying that the Kingdom of God has arrived.   It is important to note that Jesus was not the first person in recent years who had claimed to be the Messiah.   Other people claiming to be the Messiah had come and gone.    So why should Jesus be seen as anything more than just one more crazy man making false, grandiose claims?     Jesus performed miracles that none of the other "messiahs"  could do.   Jesus set himself apart from the charlatans by raising the dead, multiplying food, exercising personal power over nature, over death, and over demons.    Jesus' miracles and the subsequent miracles performed by the Apostles were to authenticate Jesus' claims to be the Messiah, and to authenticate the apostles as his rightful successors.

 

There is no doctrine of miracles, no express teaching about miracles in the epistles.   Miracles are solely at God's sovereign discretion.   You can pray for miracles 'till your blue in the face, but it is God's sovereign will in the end if a miracle is performed or not.    Your faith, or lack thereof is not going to affect positive or negative results and will not impact God's sovereign decision.

[FresnoJoe]

Joe,

 

Challenging false doctrine being spewed from false teachers and frauds like Copeland and Hagin who take advantage of needy, gullible people isn't "bitterness."   It's what needs to be done.  These people are not servants of God and their teachings should have been rejected and they should be selling cars instead of fleecing the flock and deceiving masses of people.

 

 

Searching The Word Is My Joy

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12

 

Going After Copeland And Hagin Or Barack Or Billy Graham

 

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39

 

Or Even The Ayatollah Ali Khamenei Or Friz

 

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

 

Is Not My Calling

 

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:20

[Floatingaxe]

Floatingaxe, the question is whether or not it is God's will to divinely heal every believer in THIS life.   We will get new bodies in heaven, but that is not the issue.   The Bible doesn't promise that God will heal 100% of the time when asked.

 

Yet everyone who came to Jesus for healing received it! God never says no to healing His children. Healer is His name, just as it is Saviour. Does He refuse salvation to people according to His will?

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Floatingaxe, the question is whether or not it is God's will to divinely heal every believer in THIS life.   We will get new bodies in heaven, but that is not the issue.   The Bible doesn't promise that God will heal 100% of the time when asked.

 

Yet everyone who came to Jesus for healing received it! God never says no to healing His children. Healer is His name, just as it is Saviour. Does He refuse salvation to people according to His will?

 

The difference is that salvation is promised to everyone who wants it.    Healing is not promised to everyone.   Jesus' healing ministry was to confirm his message.  Same with the apostles.  

That's why you don't see everyone in Acts with a healing ministry, only the apostles and two deacons.