History and the Roman Catholic Church

[HePaidForUs]

• I Reply
•  Report
•  Edit
•  
•  

Edited June 27, 2015 by HePaidForUs

[FresnoJoe]

I want to accept that there is a huge church that has been around for 2000 years and traces all the way back to Peter. The problem is I have been banned from Catholic Answers twice and they threatened me with legal action if I make another account so I can't ask them questions anymore. Until all my questions are answered directly and logically, how am I supposed to accept all this stuff!?

 

Anyone know of a Catholic website I can go to that won't patronize me first and then ban me for asking questions?

 

 

Stick With

 

Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor; not lagging behind in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer, contributing to the needs of the saints, practicing hospitality. Romans 12:9-13 (NASB)

 

The Truth Tellers

 

I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth.

 

“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. John 17:14-21 (ESV)

 

It Will Be Well With Thy Soul

 

Always be full of joy in the Lord. I say it again—rejoice! Let everyone see that you are considerate in all you do. Remember, the Lord is coming soon.

 

Don’t worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. Then you will experience God’s peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus.

 

And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise. Philippians 4:4-8 (NLT)

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

The Roman Catholic Church claims to be the only church that was around for 1500 years other than outright heretics (groups denying the Father etc)

I'm one of those fundamentalists (it is good to learn the fundamentals first, imo, so I think I will be a fundamentalist for a while) who believes the Bible is the Word of God, evolution is an absurd lie (you mean to tell me and billions of children that you think I evolved from a germ!?), and here is where I differ from most:

I think almost all of the history books are full of outright lies.

When I think about it, here is what happened:

A bunch of people were running around talking to each other. Some of them started writing down what happened. Groups of people who wanted control started trying to control information. They often slaughtered opposition and burned their writings. In the middle of all of this, demons were tricking EVERYONE on Earth.

With all of this in mind. how am I supposed to know ANYTHING that was happening 1,000 years ago? Because someone says it? Rich people and demons wrote the history books. I don't trust them right NOW, so why would I trust what they wrote back THEN?

Let's say reported history is half-way accurate. That's a big assumption in my opinion, but let's say the RC Church really has been around for 1900 years or so. How do I know they weren't doing the same exact thing every other group did - slaughtering opposition and burning their writings?

I look at the Bible and many things come to mind:

No one was praying to Mary

Jesus had siblings.

One mediator between man and God

No one was praying to angels...ever...throughout the WHOLE BIBLE.

Everyone called each other SAINTS (without being canonized!?)

Jesus said specifically "call no man on Earth your father because your Father is in Heaven" - He wasn't talking about dads was He? Who was He talking about if not Roman Catholics? No one was calling the Pharisees "father."

When did anyone EVER call Peter "Holy Father." If someone says "our Holy Father" shouldn't they be talking about GOD!?

Out of all of the Scripture talking about how to contend with the devils, which Scripture tells us to get a statue blessed by a priest and put it in our house? I see Scripture about the whole armor of God. Nothing about a statue of Mary. This is highly suspicious to me!

Those pictures they make of angels and such....Anyone seen the one where they portray Michael the Archangel over Satan? Who thinks an Archangel is going to look like that? I need an explanation. And back to the contending with devils aspect: why would having a picture portraying an Archangel, blessed by a priest, ward off devils?

I want to accept that there is a huge church that has been around for 2000 years and traces all the way back to Peter. The problem is I have been banned from Catholic Answers twice and they threatened me with legal action if I make another account so I can't ask them questions anymore. Until all my questions are answered directly and logically, how am I supposed to accept all this stuff!?

Anyone know of a Catholic website I can go to that won't patronize me first and then ban me for asking questions?

When I have questions about the catholic faith one place I like to go and ask my questions is here

Just to comment on your progression of logic. How can you believe the bible? By your own admission how can you believe anything written 1000 yrs ago. Well the books of the bible were written almost 2000 years ago. How can you believe it?

I can't follow your logic, all accounts of history are corrupt YET one book written 2000 years ago isn't. Why? Under whose authority is the bible the word of God? The bible never says it is. All mention of scripture is in reference to the Old Testament with one except where Peter makes a reference to Paul's writings. Where does the bible say it's the Word of God?

The Canon of scripture came from the catholic Church. Please make note I used SMALL c and I did not say Roman. Catholic meaning universal.

So based on what you have said how can you believe the bible? Because it was put together by a synod of Bishops and the canon declared closed. Which than was affirmed by church's in other regions.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Judas Machabeus
Link removed.

[The_Patriot21]

your either going to have to accept the Bible is the total, 100% word of God and take it for its word-or not, regardless of what any church says or doesn't say about it.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

your either going to have to accept the Bible is the total, 100% word of God and take it for its word-or not, regardless of what any church says or doesn't say about it.

Now full disclosure! I believe that the bible is the Word of God.

But my point is why do you believe that? Or why does the OP believe that. The Bible doesn't say that it's the Word of God.

The OP was painting with a board brush saying that we can't believe anything from History. Well if what he's saying is true than how can the OP believe the bible. It's 2000 yrs old?

I don't agree with the conclusion that the OP has come to. I believe we can trust historical documents. They are not infallible, but we can use various independent sources and draw resonable conclusions about the past.

[missmuffet]

The Roman Catholic Church claims to be the only church that was around for 1500 years other than outright heretics (groups denying the Father etc)

 

I'm one of those fundamentalists (it is good to learn the fundamentals first, imo, so I think I will be a fundamentalist for a while) who believes the Bible is the Word of God, evolution is an absurd lie (you mean to tell me and billions of children that you think I evolved from a germ!?), and here is where I differ from most:

I think almost all of the history books are full of outright lies. 

 

When I think about it, here is what happened:

 

A bunch of people were running around talking to each other. Some of them started writing down what happened. Groups of people who wanted control started trying to control information. They often slaughtered opposition and burned their writings. In the middle of all of this, demons were tricking EVERYONE on Earth.

 

With all of this in mind. how am I supposed to know ANYTHING that was happening 1,000 years ago? Because someone says it? Rich people and demons wrote the history books. I don't trust them right NOW, so why would I trust what they wrote back THEN?

 

Let's say reported history is half-way accurate. That's a big assumption in my opinion, but let's say the RC Church really has been around for 1900 years or so. How do I know they weren't doing the same exact thing every other group did - slaughtering opposition and burning their writings?

 

I look at the Bible and many things come to mind:

 

No one was praying to Mary

Jesus had siblings.

One mediator between man and God

No one was praying to angels...ever...throughout the WHOLE BIBLE. 

Everyone called each other SAINTS (without being canonized!?)

Jesus said specifically "call no man on Earth your father because your Father is in Heaven" - He wasn't talking about dads was He? Who was He talking about if not Roman Catholics? No one was calling the Pharisees "father."

When did anyone EVER call Peter "Holy Father." If someone says "our Holy Father" shouldn't they be talking about GOD!? 

Out of all of the Scripture talking about how to contend with the devils, which Scripture tells us to get a statue blessed by a priest and put it in our house? I see Scripture about the whole armor of God. Nothing about a statue of Mary. This is highly suspicious to me!

Those pictures they make of angels and such....Anyone seen the one where they portray Michael the Archangel over Satan? Who thinks an Archangel is going to look like that? I need an explanation. And back to the contending with devils aspect: why would having a picture portraying an Archangel, blessed by a priest, ward off devils? 

 

I want to accept that there is a huge church that has been around for 2000 years and traces all the way back to Peter. The problem is I have been banned from Catholic Answers twice and they threatened me with legal action if I make another account so I can't ask them questions anymore. Until all my questions are answered directly and logically, how am I supposed to accept all this stuff!?

 

Anyone know of a Catholic website I can go to that won't patronize me first and then ban me for asking questions?

 

I am one of those fundamentalists and I faithfully believe that the Bible is the word of God.And I believe that evolution is

 

an absurd lie so I would say we differ on many things.The Catholics are very defensive about what they believe.It all depends on how you were asking those questions.Are you a Catholic?If not stay out of their message boards.Give your concerns to God about the Catholic Church and then let it be.

[Ezra]

Anyone know of a Catholic website I can go to that won't patronize me first and then ban me for asking questions?

 

The Roman Catholic Church believes that it is the one true church and that its "Holy Tradition" + Scripture gives it this authority.  It would be a waste of your time to debate with Roman Catholics.

 

At the same time, most evangelical and fundamentalist forums today run scared of the RCC and are afraid to give offence. Even they will not allow you to say anything negative about the RCC.  So your only option is to communicate with Catholics one-on-one if you wish to target them.

[FresnoJoe]

Papa~!

 

For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. Matthew 23:4-7
 

There Is Only One~!

 

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. Matthew 23:8-10

 

~

 

I'm so sorry for everyone I mislead. The RC Church is truly God's Church. God revealed this to me shortly after I made this foolish post here. I just went to confession today. God answered my prayers before confession with regards to it, which confirmed for me that the RC Church is God's Church.

 

 

 

Stick With

 

Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor; not lagging behind in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer, contributing to the needs of the saints, practicing hospitality. Romans 12:9-13 (NASB)

 

The Truth Tellers

 

I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth.

 

“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. John 17:14-21 (ESV)

 

It Will Be Well With Thy Soul

 

Always be full of joy in the Lord. I say it again—rejoice! Let everyone see that you are considerate in all you do. Remember, the Lord is coming soon.

 

Don’t worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. Then you will experience God’s peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus.

 

And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise. Philippians 4:4-8 (NLT)

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

The question about statues seems to be an important one to you. I went to catholic.com and entered the word statues in the search engine. The first article that came up was "do Catholics worship statues?"

This forum has a rule against promoting Catholic teachings. I don't think this violates it since it's clarifying a misunderstanding.

I too am looking for the Church Christ founded in Mathew. And the Cathloic Church claims to be that Church.

I have found so far. All the claims against the Church are founded in a gross misunderstanding as to what is believed by the Church.

For instance the call no man father, yet Jesus calls Abraham "father Abrahm" Paul calls himself father.

In Johns first letter he calls the Church leaders of Ephesus fathers:

1 John 2:13-14

13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the Evil One. I write to you, children, because you know the Father.
14 I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the Evil One.

The rest of the article is here:

I don't know why you were banned from their forums, to be honest I don't go their often. But their main site has lots of resources. When I hear someone make a claim against the Catholic Church I start there.

My point of view is if I want to know what a group believes I go to that group and see what they say. I'm not going to a group that is hostle to what they believe.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Judas Machabeus
Removed links to pro catholic website.

[Ezra]

The question about statues seems to be an important one to you. I went to catholic.com and entered the word statues in the search engine. The first article that came up was "do Catholics worship statues?"

If you go to catholic.com what do you expect?  They will adamantly defend their veneration of statues.  So what else is new?

I have found so far. All the claims against the Church are founded in a gross misunderstanding as to what is believed by the Church.

You are either trying to defend the RCC, or you are unwilling to accept the truth about this church.  There is no misunderstanding since they lay everything out clearly in their Catechism and NewAdvent.org.  All one has to do is look at Scripture and compare their teachings.

For instance the call no man father, yet Jesus calls Abraham "father Abraham" Paul calls himself father.

Two errors right here, and this is how Catholics confuse people who have no clue about what is in Scripture:

1. Jesus did not call Abraham "father Abraham".  He was quoting the rich man who addressed Abraham as "father Abraham" (Lk 16:24).  Big difference.  Also Abram was called Abraham because he would become the *father* or progenitor of many nations.  This has no bearing whatsoever on Christ's teaching to call no man "Father".

2. Paul calls himself "a father" since metaphorically he *fathered* those who heard the Gospel through him and were born again.  He also helped them to grow as Christians, hence he became a*father* in teaching and admonishing them.  But you will never see that Paul is called "Father Paul".  It is always "Brother Paul".

In Johns first letter he calls the Church leaders of Ephesus fathers:

The context makes it crystal clear that this passage is not giving anyone the authority to call men "Father" since John would then be contradicting Christ.  What John is doing is simply classifying believers according to their spiritual maturity.  Some are *fathers*, some are *young men* and some are *little children*.  When a person is born again he is a *babe in Christ*.  As he matures spiritually, he grows into these various categories.

My point of view is if I want to know what a group believes I go to that group and see what they say. I'm not going to a group that is hostle to what they believe.

We don't have to consult anyone who is hostile to the RCC to discover their errors.  All we have to do is open the Word of God and open their own writings and teachings.  The contrast is clear for all who wish to be objective.