Kan Posted June 28, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2015 You are all aware of a difference between a man appointed of the Holy Spirit and merely an organization. The one pastor rule is not God's idea, because it over burdens the pastor with responsibility and it tends not recognize the equality of every other gift in the body of Christ to be part of the organization of the Spirit. But is there a danger of not recognizing God's appointed leaders and denying their role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted June 28, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted June 28, 2015 You are all aware of a difference.... between a man appointed of the Holy Spirit and merely an organization.... Was You Send? Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:20 Or Did You Went? "I have not sent these prophets, yet they run around claiming to speak for me. I have given them no message, yet they go on prophesying. Jeremiah 23:21 (NLT) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetruth Posted June 28, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 45 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 55 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/24/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 hello Kan, Yes I am aware of this many minister ( so called) today can simply buy there way into a bible school and take a few courses pass the course and become a pastor, or Master of divinity ( so called a horrible title for man to take) and this is not the way God makes overseers or elders etc. Paul told christians to know those who labour among then. The knowing comes as they see others minister in thier gifts. We should recognize and submit to one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted June 28, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2015 So if credentials are not necessarily the calling of God, what signs can we look for that would indicate a suitable pastor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetruth Posted June 28, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 45 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 55 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/24/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) hello agai, Paul mentions aspects of Bishops (overseers) in Timothy, but pastor gifts and apostles, prophets, evangelist and teachers, are given from God we can discuss the aspects of these gifts but that is a longer talk. Remeber Paul said he was an aopstle, not of men, or by men, but of God. This is the calling for all ministers. Men can recognize this call and gift. But these overseers who are also elders and who may have one of the five fold gifts, are not as Lords or exalted men over others The marks of false ministers Paul warns about in 2 Cor they exalt themsleves and take of others etc, Pal also said that they wpuld draw away disciples after themselves. John warned of Diotrephese who loved to have the preminance among them and did not receive the brethren and kicked them out. John also tells believers how to know the false and true by the anointing which abides in believers. He said you have no need that any man should teach you 1 John 2 . Yes God gives teachers but we listen for the witness in us and for the word. Edited June 28, 2015 by lovetruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted June 28, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted June 28, 2015 So if credentials are not necessarily the calling of God.... what signs can we look for that would indicate a suitable pastor.... The Calling “‘And I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding. Jeremiah 3:15 (ESV) Of The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church? He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil. 1 Timothy 3:1-7 (ESV) God For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. Titus 1:5-9 (KJV) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted June 28, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2015 I was counting on you Joe. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted June 28, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2015 hello agai, Paul mentions aspects of Bishops (overseers) in Timothy, but pastor gifts and apostles, prophets, evangelist and teachers, are given from God we can discuss the aspects of these gifts but that is a longer talk. Remeber Paul said he was an aopstle, not of men, or by men, but of God. This is the calling for all ministers. Men can recognize this call and gift. But these overseers who are also elders and who may have one of the five fold gifts, are not as Lords or exalted men over others The marks of false ministers Paul warns about in 2 Cor they exalt themsleves and take of others etc, Pal also said that they wpuld draw away disciples after themselves. John warned of Diotrephese who loved to have the preminance among them and did not receive the brethren and kicked them out. John also tells believers how to know the false and true by the anointing which abides in believers. He said you have no need that any man should teach you 1 John 2 . Yes God gives teachers but we listen for the witness in us and for the word. So the false teachers/shepherds try to get attention or a following/social empowerment, whereas the true pastors are servants rather than lords. It is really refreshing when we listen to someone preach and we lose sight of the person speaking, as we become focused on the truth about Christ. How does a true minister relate to the other people with gifts? What would be his role? And how would a one pastor ministry be a hindrance as you mentioned in the opening? Is it because he is thought to be a prime speaker rather than sharing the pulpit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted June 29, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted June 29, 2015 One man pastored churches is part of the end of the age scheme. I no longer partake in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetruth Posted June 29, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 45 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 55 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/24/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 hello agai, Paul mentions aspects of Bishops (overseers) in Timothy, but pastor gifts and apostles, prophets, evangelist and teachers, are given from God we can discuss the aspects of these gifts but that is a longer talk. Remeber Paul said he was an aopstle, not of men, or by men, but of God. This is the calling for all ministers. Men can recognize this call and gift. But these overseers who are also elders and who may have one of the five fold gifts, are not as Lords or exalted men over others The marks of false ministers Paul warns about in 2 Cor they exalt themsleves and take of others etc, Pal also said that they wpuld draw away disciples after themselves. John warned of Diotrephese who loved to have the preminance among them and did not receive the brethren and kicked them out. John also tells believers how to know the false and true by the anointing which abides in believers. He said you have no need that any man should teach you 1 John 2 . Yes God gives teachers but we listen for the witness in us and for the word. So the false teachers/shepherds try to get attention or a following/social empowerment, whereas the true pastors are servants rather than lords. It is really refreshing when we listen to someone preach and we lose sight of the person speaking, as we become focused on the truth about Christ. How does a true minister relate to the other people with gifts? What would be his role? And how would a one pastor ministry be a hindrance as you mentioned in the opening? Is it because he is thought to be a prime speaker rather than sharing the pulpit? The oder of God is to allow Christ to work in the body as the head Ephesians 4:15,16. Then as they gifts are allow to operate the believers will recognize the ones who so minister. These brothers become mature in their gifts and so become recognized elders who help by example and the word. A babe is unskillful in the word of righteousness but a elder is more so. This doesnt mean that a babe cannot share the word or revelation, it simply means that elders (plural) are more equped to do so and will often exhort the gainsayers by sound doctrine. But if a one man pastor gift is put as a title of office over all others rather than just one of the FIVE fold gifts Ephesians 4, this will quench the spirit in others and hinder them from ministering and exalt one ministry or gift over all. Every joint supplies according to the effectual working in the measure of every part", not just one joint supplies. The body is many parts and one part cannot say to the other parts I have no need of you. I speak of ministry in te body on a Sunday or whenever the believers gather together in one place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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