Why I am a Christian Zionist

[Estrella]

Regarding donations, so much donations and charities are done for Palestinians by Muslim NGOs here. There is also a premise dedicated for Palestine funding/ charity etc. The pictures shown on the donation boxes or posters are often image of women and children and man suffering- dead bodies, hospitals, children without limbs etc. Of course again...it is more inclined towards supporting their Palestinians Muslim brothers and sisters. I don't think they would do so if they were all Christians. Boycotts of Israel products took place here as well. It went so far as attacking McDonalds and attacking other Muslim staffs who work in McDonalds. Muslims were told not to eat at mcd or buy products by Jews/Israel. Until the ministry / government had to step in to control this bigotry. You can Google this and find news relates to this boycott in Malaysia. I don't think anyone in malaysia would dare say they support Israel publicly at least not to Muslims. Palestinians are made as the war victims here. Well in my opinion, in any war, both sides will have victims. I believe that there are Jews who became victims of this war too. Perhaps the numbers vary.

[Qnts2]

Regarding donations, so much donations and charities are done for Palestinians by Muslim NGOs here. There is also a premise dedicated for Palestine funding/ charity etc. The pictures shown on the donation boxes or posters are often image of women and children and man suffering- dead bodies, hospitals, children without limbs etc. Of course again...it is more inclined towards supporting their Palestinians Muslim brothers and sisters. I don't think they would do so if they were all Christians. Boycotts of Israel products took place here as well. It went so far as attacking McDonalds and attacking other Muslim staffs who work in McDonalds. Muslims were told not to eat at mcd or buy products by Jews/Israel. Until the ministry / government had to step in to control this bigotry. You can Google this and find news relates to this boycott in Malaysia. I don't think anyone in malaysia would dare say they support Israel publicly at least not to Muslims. Palestinians are made as the war victims here. Well in my opinion, in any war, both sides will have victims. I believe that there are Jews who became victims of this war too. Perhaps the numbers vary.

 

Sadly, both sides are victoms. Any war does have victoms on both sides.  

 

In the Israel vs Palestinian war, the radical factions in Palestine have sworn to the death of Jews. Israel has not sworn to the death of the Palestinians. Palestine keeps firing missiles into Israel.

 

Israel does have a pretty good defense system, but the people live in constant fear, and need to make sure they are close to a bomb shelter at all times. Palestinians cross the border into Israel and kidnap and kill Israeli's. Palestinians send in suicide bombers and kill the most they can, including a bus load of young students heading to school. Israel is then forced into sending their army to try to kill the radicals in Palestine who attack Israel. If the Palestinians would stop attacking Israel, Israel would not have to stop the attacks anymore and there would be peace.

 

Until the Palestinians stop teaching their children they are to work to kill all Jews, then, maybe the war would stop.    

[thereselittleflower]

 

Palestinian Christians speak of the persecution they live with, not at the hands of muslims, but those of the state of Israel:

 

Based on our years as parish priests in Palestine, we were appalled by the false allegations regarding Palestinian Christians made in recent weeks by Israeli spokespeople, such as Ambassador Michael Oren..

We were perplexed not because of their position, which has been part of the official Israeli narrative for many years, but by how openly they have distorted facts and misconstrued the plight of Palestinian Christians pursuing justice and peace.

These spokespeople have wrongly propagated a cynical discourse misleadingly touting “Christian persecution by Muslims.” Every Friday, we celebrate the holy mass attended by hundreds of Palestinian Christians from Bethlehem, Ramallah and Jerusalem in the Cremisan Area of Beit Jala. The holy service, celebrated among ancient olive trees, was not a prayer to end a “Muslim-led persecution” but to prevent Israel from confiscating this area of land that belongs to 58 Palestinian Christian families – Israel’s latest attempt to consolidate its ring of settlements that aim to sever Bethlehem from Jerusalem. This is one last attempt to prevent a land confiscation that would have catastrophic consequences for the local Christian population.

Since the Israeli occupation began in 1967, Israel has confiscated thousands of acres belonging to Palestinian Christians and Muslims. In the Jerusalem and Bethlehem areas, Christians have been severely affected by Israel’s colonization policies. As an example, approximately 5,436 acres of land from northern Bethlehem were unilaterally annexed by Israel to create the illegal settlements of Gilo and Har Homa – which Israel now cynically calls new Jerusalem “neighborhoods.”

These “neighborhoods,” aim to physically separate Jerusalem from Bethlehem and, for the first time in history, prohibit Palestinian Christians from worshipping in the holy city of Jerusalem.

It is also completely disingenuous for Israeli spokespeople to argue that the population of Christians in Israel has “tripled since 1948.” In fact, figures show that the percentage of Christians in the area began to decrease in 1948, when Israel was created.

Much of the so-called “growth” in Israel is due to the immigration of foreigners and while it is true that in numbers Christians have grown in both Israel and Palestine due to natural increase, the percentage would be much higher in absence of the ongoing Israeli displacement policies against the indigenous Palestinian population.

In fact, Israeli spokespeople “forget” to mention that in 1948, 75 percent of the Palestinian Arab population, including Christians, of what is now the State of Israel became refugees. Entire Christian villages were destroyed by Israel; and tens of thousands of Christians were expelled. Some areas of today’s west Jerusalem, such as Talbiya and Katamon, were home to thousands of Palestinian Christians whose homes were looted and private property confiscated.

Since the occupation of the West Bank in 1967, Israel has implemented a policy of taking as much as land as possible and as few Palestinians as possible. Palestinian Christians, particularly in Jerusalem, have suffered the consequences of this policy.

..

... During our years of priesthood, we have paid visits to many Palestinian Christian political prisoners jailed in Israeli prisons, participated in funerals of Christians who have lost their lives in this bloody conflict, assisted families divided by the Israeli policy of stripping Palestinian residency rights, and lobbied on behalf of our parishioners whose property was confiscated by Israel.

In the West Bank Israel does not differentiate between Palestinian Christians and Muslims in its policies. Several studies have shown that the Israeli occupation and settlement activities are the main reason for Christian emigration.

These claims are not Palestinian “propaganda” but have been largely researched by the US government, the European Union and the United Nations. In fact, all the recent International Religious Freedom Reports published by the US Department of State highlight this issue.

To conclude, Palestinian Christians are not persecuted by Palestinian Muslims. The end of the Israeli occupation would allow all our people, Christians and Muslims, to develop all our potential living side by side.

Fr. Faysal Hijazeen is the parish priest of the Ramallah’s Holy Family Church and head of Latin Patriarchate Schools in Palestine and Fr. Ibrahim Shomali is parish priest of the Annunciation Church in Beit Jala.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/The-plight-of-Palestinian-Christians

Christian zionism supports political zionism in Israel, which, by the power of the State of Israel, persecutes our christian Palestinian brothers and sisters , members with us of the Body of Christ.

Something is very, very wrong here.

Lord have mercy.

Ohh.. Little flower, Palestinian Christians are indeed persecuted by some Muslims. No doubt about that. But, i was saying that, in malaysia, where it is against Israel and supports palestine, the image made over here is war between Jews and Muslims. Meaning, the Palestinian Christians are not mentioned or not included. So it is perceived that Jews are against Muslims but did not take the consideration that Palestinian Christians suffer the same with Palestinian Muslims.

 

 

 

I have no doubt that some muslims persecute palestinian  christians there just as some English people persecute christians, or any other group might.   The point of the article though is to hear what the Palestinian Christians themselves have to say on this matter.

 

The image of constant persecution through the centuries by muslims that is oft painted today is contrary to what the palestinian christians and sephardic jews who lived side by side with the muslims in the Holy Land experienced prior to political zionism's push into their lands.   The image we are given is one of centuries of persecution at the hands of muslims. The reality is, according to palestinian christians,  the three groups lived pretty much at peace among each other before the coming of the political zionists.      

 

The very critical questions are these   -  How have christain zionists responded to the plight of their palestinian brethern?      What have christian zionists done to help relieve the suffering at the hands of the zionist Jewish government, of our palestinian christian brothers and sisters?       

 

It is said you will know the tree by its fruit.  James says    

 

James 2:

Sin of Partiality.[a]  1 My brothers, show no partiality as you adhere to the faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ.

 

8 However, if you fulfill the royal[d] law according to the scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

 

12 So speak and so act as people who will be judged by the law of freedom.[e] 13 For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

 

Faith and Works.[f] 14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? 17 So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

 

 

What has really been the fruit in regards to how christian zionists respond to and treat their palestinian brethern?  Do we see them giving them aid?  relieving their suffering?    Do we see them calling out for justice, the cessation of injurious treatment by the State of Israel,  and equal treatment with the Jewish people by the Israeli government?  What exactly has been the christian zionist response?

 

We should go to the Palestinian Christains for that information:

 

Effect of War of 1967 and its challenge My first significant encounter with dispensationalism and with Christian Zionism took place immediately after the 1967 Arab-Israeli War when I was a student at my own denomination's Bible College in Switzerland. The denomination and the college held to and taught the dispensational point of view and both believed that Israel must take over all the land of Palestine and much more before the second coming of Jesus. At first, these theological concepts did not worry me much as long as they were just theories for theological speculations. After the war, I began to take these theories seriously. What concerned me and infuriated another Arab Christian student from Syria, who also attended the same College, is that our professors and our colleagues were excited at the end of the war because Israel defeated three Arab nations and seized the West Bank from Jordan, the Golan Heights from Syria and the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt. Their exhilaration was due to their belief that God miraculously stood with Israel and helped Israel in order to fulfill Biblical prophecies and to speed up the return of Jesus. The victory of Israel over three Arab nations was also a confirmation for them that the theories we were studying in class were true. While my friend and I were grieving the death and the destruction that the bloody war caused on many innocent people, our friends were celebrating what they thought was a fulfillment of Biblical prophecies. They were totally indifferent and insensitive to the ravages of war and its toll on human life.

 

 

I have witnessed this same indifference and insensitivity among chrsitian zionists/disepensatoinalists  for the entire 30+ years I was a dispensational chrsitian zionist.  Palestinian christians were pushed under the rug. They were the elephant in the room no one talked about.   Their plight and needs were ignored.  I witnessed the same as this writer witnessed.    I am ashamed I allowed myself to be caught up in this same indifference and partiality.  The pervasive fruit of chrsitian zionism is this indifference and insenstivity to the suffering of others, of the palestinian people and especially of our palestinian brethren, members with us of the Body of Christ in the Holy Land, suffering at the hands of this zionist government. Instead they show favoritism and partiality to the very ones who perpetrate this suffering of our Palestinian brethern.

 

 

The author above, a Palestinian evangelical chrsitian, found himself confronted with these questions:

 

1. Did God really give my country to the Jewish people?

2. Were the wars of 1948 and1967 acts of God? Did God actually intervene on behalf of the Zionists? Is God also excited over the devastation inflicted on Palestinians and Arabs (both Muslims and Christians?)

3. Are modern secular Jews and Zionists who created the state of Israel God’s chosen people?

4. Are my friend and I and our people on the wrong side of prophecy?

5. Are we wrong to be indignant while our friends were so jubilant?

6. Is the Bible--the book that I love so much and the book that revealed God’s love to me through Jesus Christ and the book that I came to study at this Bible College—behind the suffering and the humiliation of my people?

 

If you want to hear about this from a Palestinian Christian Evangelical perspective, the rest of his article is here:

 

Palestinian Christians in the Shadow of Christian Zionism

https://mysteryworshipers.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/awad-alex-palestinian-christians-in-the-shadow-of-cz-8-5x11.pdf

 

 

Also of significant importance is the voice of Palestinian christians expressed in this joint declaration issued  by Palestinian Christians in 2006  in regards to christian zionism :

 

The Jerusalem Declaration on Christian Zionism is a joint statement issued by a number of Palestinian Christian churches dated 22 August 2006. It rejects Christian Zionism, concluding that it is a "false teaching that corrupts the biblical message of love, justice, and reconciliation."

 

The declaration and a response by some christian zionists is found here:

 

http://int.icej.org/media/jerusalem-declaration-christian-zionism

 

In the christian zionist rseponse, we see this:

 

4. Christian Zionists recognize that Israel has a right to exist in peace and security. Moreover, there are biblical considerations that regulate Israel’s national existence and these have to do with the issues of justice and righteousness and her treatment of the stranger within her midst. Christian Zionists fully recognize this and stand for these.

 

 

Where do we see christian zionism, in the actual words and actions of christian zionists,  challenging the failure of the Israel government to obey God's command regarding "the treatment of the stranger within her midst?"   Where have we seen it here in these threads?    

 

 

The fruit of the those led by the Holy Spirit demonstrates this:

 

 

John 13:35

By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

 

 

1 John 4:20

Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.   

 

 

Where is the love of christian zionism for our palestinian brethren?

 

 

God commands the Jewish people to treat the stranger as if they were one of them.  Instead, we see the State of Israel doing the exact opposite.  Where is the outcry by christian zionists against these actions by the State of Israel?  If anyone dares to raise their voice in outcry against "the treatment of the stranger in her midst," which is the opposite of what God has commanded in scripture, and try to hold the government of Israel accountable for ignoring God's command about treatment of the stranger, christian zionists, as we have seen even here, instead of acknowledging the validity of such criticism,  denounce such criticism with cries of anti semitism.    

 

 

 

 

Such is the fruit of christian zionism. 

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[FresnoJoe]

....the fruit of Christian Zionism....

 

 

The

 

You will arise and have compassion on Zion,

for it is time to show favor to her;

the appointed time has come.

 

For her stones are dear to your servants;

her very dust moves them to pity.

 

The nations will fear the name of the Lord,

all the kings of the earth will revere your glory.

 

For the Lord will rebuild Zion

and appear in his glory.

 

He will respond to the prayer of the destitute;

he will not despise their plea. Psalms 102:13-17 (NIV)

 

Fruit Of

 

The Lord hears the needy

and does not despise his captive people.

 

Let heaven and earth praise him,

the seas and all that move in them,

 

for God will save Zion

and rebuild the cities of Judah.

Then people will settle there and possess it;

 

the children of his servants will inherit it,

and those who love his name will dwell there. Psalms 69:33-36

 

Christ's

 

Why do the nations conspire

and the peoples plot in vain?

 

The kings of the earth rise up

and the rulers band together

against the Lord and against his anointed, saying,

 

“Let us break their chains

and throw off their shackles.”

 

 

The One enthroned in heaven laughs;

the Lord scoffs at them.

 

He rebukes them in his anger

and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,

 

“I have installed my king

on Zion, my holy mountain.” Psalms 2:1-6 (NIV)

 

Zionism

 

Serve the Lord with fear and celebrate his rule with trembling.

Kiss his son, or he will be angry and your way will lead to your destruction,

 

for his wrath can flare up in a moment.

Blessed are all who take refuge in him. Psalms 2:11-12 (NIV)

 

~

 

So

 

We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:20 (NIV)

 

Happy Trails To All

 

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 (NIV)

 

Who Would But

 

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24 (NIV)

 

Believe

 

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

 

and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?” John 11:25-26 (NIV)

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest shiloh357]

Now that littleflower has continued to lie through her teeth, here is a huge dose of truth:

 

The argument isn't that all Muslims have persecuted Palestinian Christians.   Neither is the argument that all Palestinian Christians have suffered persecution.  Some have not been persecuted (yet).   Littleflower is attempting to pervert the argument so that she can refute an argument that was never raised.

 

As noted in my previous post, there are numerous accounts of Palestinian Christians being persecuted by the PLO and Hamas in the West Bank and Gaza, respectively.   The accounts are too numerous to ignore and you can use any search engine to find many, many accounts of persecution.  Littleflower concedes that it happens sometimes, as if it is not a regular occurrence, but that is not the case.

 

The truth of history is that Arabs, Jews, and several different races lived in peace for centuries in the region of Palestine.  It is violent Islamic extremism and Islam's hatred of Jews that has caused the problem.   Jews were living in the land prior to Israel and there was peace.   It is Islamic terrorism and liberal history revisionism that stems from European anti-Semitism that has poisoned the well.   It is so-called "Christians"  like littleflower that embolden terrorists and fuel the fire of hate.

 

 

Now, to answer littleflower's question,  "What have Christian Zionists responded to the plight of their Palestinian bretheren??   Notice that she doesn't want the answer to come from the Christian Zionists.   To ask THEM that question would require more integrity and honesty than she is capable of mustering.    She goes to the anti-Semites to get the answer SHE wants.

 

Here is the truth.  There are Christian Zionist humanitarian organizations like Bridges for Peace and Ebenezer Emergency Fund and others over in Israel that supply humanitarian aid both Jews,  and Christian/Muslim Palestinians. They help to provide all kinds of goods and services to anyone in need regardless  of who they are, be the Jew, Arab, or anyone else.  

 

Christian Zionists have ministries to Palestinians all over Israel, many must remain undercover due to the fact that Palestinians who convert to Christanity are often murdered.   

 

One needs to differentiate between the state-approved "Christianity"  that exists in Muslim territories, vs. those who truly convert to biblical Christianity.   There are Palestinians who are nominal Christians, but who side with Hamas and favor the overthrow of Israel and the annihilation of the Jews.   Often times, people like littleflower are not informed enough or theolically equipped to make that distinction.   

 

Just as it is in the US, not everyone who claims to be a Christian is a Christian.  Sometimes they use a Christian front for various activities while at the same time the support radical Islam.

 

I seriously doubt that littleflower was ever a dispensational Zionist.   Nothing about her characterization of Zionism is either fair or accurate and the same goes for her characterization of Christian Zionism.    The people being the biggest blessing to Palestinians other than Israel are Christian Zionists.    Most of the Christian Zionists in Israel are the ONLY ones presenting the Gospel to the Palestinians and helping fellow Palestinians in the Land of Israel.   She has lied about everything else, so she is probably lying about that as well.

 

In answer to  six questions:

 

1.  Yes God gave entire West Bank, Gaza and the Land  of Israel to the Jews.   God did not give a Palestinian country to anyone. The Palestinian have never had a country.

 

2. Yes, the victories of Israel in their wars are the direct result of God's intervention and history bears that out.  

 

3. Yes, the moder secular Jews who founded Israel are God's chosen people.   Read Jer. 31:35-36.  Read Zechariah 2 where God looks to the future Jews and calls them the apple of his eye.  Read Zechariah 8 where God speaks prophetically about his zeal for Zion.

 

4.  Yes you are on the wrong side of prophecy.  You need to believe the Bible and the Bible promises the return of Israel to THEIR land which is not Palestinian land an never was.

 

5. Yes you are wrong to indignant against Israel.   Israel didn't make anyone refugees.  Your problems were inflicted upon you by the Arabs, not by Christian Zionists or Israel.

 

6. No, the Bible is not behind your suffering.   Islamic hatred and intolerance are behind your suffering.   You suffer because Arabs governments look at Palestinians as hapless pawns who the use to discredit Israel in the arena of public opinion.   You suffer because you try to afflict Israel and force Israel to take defensive countermeasures that are painful to your people but would be used by ANY other nation if you were threatening them with annihilation like you do with Israel.   You cannot pick a fight with the biggest guy in the room and then pretend to be the victim when he hits you back.

 

Christian Zionists do not need to reprimand Israel for mistreating the Palestinians because Israel doesn't mistreat the Palestinians.

 

Israel gives Palestinians:

 

Freedom of speech

Freedom of religion

Freedom of the press

Free healthcare

Social Security/Welfare

The right to own businesses

Representation in parliament

Unfettered access to Israel's Judiciary

The right to vote in all elections

Palestinians even serve in the IDF

 

The list could go on and on.  Israel is the only reason that the Palestinians are not dying from preventable diseases!   Israel even gives medical treatment to known Palestinian terrorists.   The surrounding Arab nations don't even respect the Palestinians.  They look down upon them as lower class.

 

However, Israel is not required to simply be a doormat to their enemies and the Palestinians who want to conduct terrorism pay a heavy price for it.   The Palestinian "Christians"  who advocate for radical Islam are the only Palestinians that lttleflower can use to support her position.   Most Palestinians who truly convert to faith in Jesus support Israel and Zionism.

[Betadynamique]

Trying to understand why Zionism is so controversial... the Middle East is insane, like to join the War of the Month club just to keep track of what's going on there, but ultimately it doesn't make sense that anyone would have faith in Messiah at all if there is no kingdom of Israel to receive him. 

[thereselittleflower]

just a footnote :  there's a lot of deception in palestine.  (everywhere else too... )

those people who are not free from catholicism are

the biggest enemy of everybody,  direct enemies of Israel, the Jews, and true christians everywhere....  (false christians love them, and many are united with them in error and sin)...

whether any zionists, Jewish or christian, are right or wrong where they are,

compared to all of catholicism they are lambs of peace ....

point is , without seeing and knowing the complete deception and error of catholicism,  and groups associated with it,  no accurate assessment can be determined (if 'published' data is used).   (yahweh has made known the truth , easily and gently to his sheep)

 

Jeff, please don't deamonize 1 billion believers in Christ.    

 

Only God can judge the heart of another.    

 

Judge not that ye be not judged, for what judgment you meet, it will be meeted to  you in return.

Edited July 10, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[FresnoJoe]

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities,

against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world,

against spiritual wickedness

in high places. Ephesians 6:12

 

~

 

please don't demonize 1 billion believers in Christ....

 

 

Beloved~!

 

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

 

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

 

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Matthew 7:1-5

 

~

 

Only God can judge the heart of another....    

 

 

Jesus

 

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

 

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

 

And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.  Matthew 25:31-33

 

Is The Judge

 

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

 

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: Matthew 25:40-42

 

It's A National

 

I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat,

 

and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel,

 

whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land. Joel 3:2

 

Thing

 

The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake:

 

but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. Joel 3:16
 

The WCC document also calls on Christians to reject Islamophobia, “which mischaracterizes Islam as an undifferentiated whole, and undermines decades of cultivation of co-operation with Muslims.” It also calls on Christians to “refuse the temptation to amalgamation, generalization and sensationalization of our Muslim brothers and sisters.”

 

Such Latinate gibberish is intended to shut people up about the elephant in the room: Jihad.

 

The dhimmis who call the shots at the WCC may not want to confront it, but Muslims themselves are speaking about it. For example, in a recent op-ed published in the Huffington Post, Canadian Muslim Tarek Fatah condemned the teaching of jihad that motivated the broad daylight attack that resulted in the death of British soldier Lee Rigby on May 22^nd.

 

“It is worth noting that not a single Muslim cleric since 9/11 has mustered the courage to say the doctrine of armed jihad is defunct and inapplicable in the 21st century. They rightfully denounce terrorism, but dare not denounce jihad. On the contrary, we keep hearing the propaganda that ‘Jihad’ has nothing to do with warfare.”

 

In light of the WCC document, Tarek Fatah, himself a Muslim who is speaking at great risk about a hugely important problem, would qualify as an “Islamophobe.” And by the same token, the Christian leaders who met in Lebanon are “courageous” because they refuse to fall prey to the temptation of generalizing about Muslims.

 

What the WCC is trying to do is obscure the facts about Christian-Muslim relations that are readily evident in its own archives.

 

In 2000, the World Council of Churches assisted in the publication of Jutta Sperber’s book Christians and Muslims: The Dialogue Activities of the World Council of Churches and their Theological Foundation (Walter de Gruyter). This book, based on WCC archives, gives readers some insight into why non-Muslims might be frightened of Islam and its adherents. Sperber reports, for example, that in Muslim countries, “Jews and Christians are not considered to have the same status as Muslims and are also not allowed to behave if they had.” She then describes in some detail the manner in which non-Muslims (dhimmis) were forced to live under.

 

Why were these rules imposed? Simple. “Since Jews and Christians are considered theologically as only having part of the truth, they are also in practice only allowed to enjoy a part of life.”

 

Sperber also reports that Christians have regularly protested against their second class status in Muslim empires and then quotes a scholar who states that “the Islamic dhimma system of the past is always there as a possible danger for the present – the menacing shadow of history.”

 

How could Sperber use such a phrase – “the menacing shadow of history” in reference to Islam? Somebody tell the WCC. A book it helped translate from German into English is … Islamophobic!

 

The book is also pretty revealing. In her assessment of the WCC’s dialogue with Muslim leaders, Sperber gives the game away:

 

“The solution of the Palestinian problem in the sense of the West’s abandoning its pro-Israeli attitude became the criterion to judge the credibility of the Christian/Muslim dialogue, and indeed, of inter-religious dialogue in general.

 

This attitude was not only adopted by Muslims but also by Arab Christians.”

 

In other words, if the WCC was going to have good relations with Muslim leaders, it needed to attack Israel’s supporters in the West.

 

And that is what the organization has done, for decades.

 

And yet, Christians living in the Middle East still get attacked, no matter how much the WCC dumps on Israel. http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3682/world_council_of_churches_attacks_israel_to_no_gain/page/2

[thereselittleflower]

Realistically , Arab Christians are still based in a culture that has been steeped in deep hatred for the Jews and Israel from the Islamic religious writings. I imagine would take a lot of courage to stick up for Israel if you are surrounded by neighbors that hate the Jews from their very depths but aren't too crazy about you either. There are also the Arab Christians that have not been taught the Bible properly and hate the Jews because they believe it is right to do so since they crucified the Messiah. A lot of Arab Christians have RC influence too, so sadly , the anti-Semitism comes from lots of directions.

 

That is simply not true.

 

 

 

therese little flower

 

People become demonized by sin. 

 

That also is not true.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[thereselittleflower]

who is a zionist?  who is a christian?  who is anathema ?  who is a traitor ? who

died because they lied in the NT ? (i.e. who is a liar)

who tells the truth ?

 

how many times is it written when and how to judge ? (like so as to not allow what is evil to remain in the midst of the assembly according to yahshua's clear and plain instructions ?)

 

never judge by what is seen or heard.   never judge unjustly.  

instead,  yahshua says (only to those who are upright disciples of his) ,  judge righteously....  and ? (research in OT and NT) ...

 

We are to discern, but never to judge another's heart or standing with God.

 

The scripture tells us:

 

Jeremiah 17:9 

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

 

Jeremiah 17:10

New International Version

"I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve."

 

New Living Translation

But I, the LORD, search all hearts and examine secret motives. I give all people their due rewards, according to what their actions deserve."

 

New American Standard Bible 

"I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.

 

King James Bible

I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, andaccording to the fruit of his doings.

 

 

We cannot know even our own heart properly.   How can we know the heart of another?    Only God can search the hearts, and God rewards us according to what He finds there.

 

The Jesus says:

 

 

Luke 6:37

"Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn others, or it will all come back against you. Forgive others, and you will be forgiven.

 

Does everyone see that?   If we judge others we will be judged.  If we condemn others, it will come back against us.  These are the words of Jesus.

 

Again:

 

Matthew 7:1

 

International Standard Version

"Stop judging, so that you won't be judged, 

 

New International Version

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

 

Aramaic Bible in Plain English

You shall not judge, lest you be judged.

 

King James Bible

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

 

New American Standard Bible 

"Do not judge so that you will not be judged.

 

 

Again, is anyone listening to the words of our Lord?

 

 

Matthew 7:1-5New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE) Chapter 7

Judging Others. 1 [a]“Stop judging,[b] that you may not be judged. 2 For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. 3 Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove that splinter from your eye,’ while the wooden beam is in your eye? 5 You hypocrite,[c] remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye.