FreeinChrist Posted July 8, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 192 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 635 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/29/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 8, 2015 Daniel 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men; but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. So is the they the Roman empire, or something/one else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted July 8, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 8, 2015 Daniel 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men; but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. So is the they the Roman empire, or something/one else? More precisely the "revived" Roman Empire, which consists primarily of Europe and the Mediterranean nations previously under Rome. The European Economic Community (EEC or Common Market) is supposed to be a union but is in fact in disunion and disharmony, just as iron and clay do not really mix. This will be a tool in the hands of the Antichrist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted July 8, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,205 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Daniel 2:43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men; but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. So is the they the Roman empire, or something/one else? Hi 19Duggarfan, I have been taught back in the `60`s, & I believe that the iron & clay are the two factions of Islam - the Sunni & the Shi-ites. That is why they are continually fighting as they do not mix. It will take the anti-Christ to bring them together. And what a powerful force that will be!!!!!! Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeinChrist Posted July 8, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 192 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 635 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/29/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Thank you both Ezra and Marilyn, both of your views are very sound and much better than what I once was taught and believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estrella Posted July 8, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 25 Topic Count: 33 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 813 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 1,002 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/11/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 8, 2015 Daniel 2:43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men; but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. So is the they the Roman empire, or something/one else? Hi 19Duggarfan, I have been taught back in the `60`s, & I believe that the iron & clay are the two factions of Islam - the Sunni & the Shi-ites. That is why they are continually fighting as they do not mix. It will take the anti-Christ to bring them together. And what a powerful force that will be!!!!!! Marilyn. Anti Christ to bring them together? Meaning against Christians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted July 8, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 8, 2015 Hi 19Duggarfan, I have been taught back in the `60`s, & I believe that the iron & clay are the two factions of Islam - the Sunni & the Shi-ites. That is why they are continually fighting as they do not mix. It will take the anti-Christ to bring them together. And what a powerful force that will be!!!!!! Marilyn. Marilyn, One could not possibly fit Islam into Daniel's prophecies without a lot of contorted interpretation. The Sunnis and Shias are scattered throughout the Muslim world, but they have never constituted a monolithic Sunni Empire or a monolithic Shia Empire. But we are clearly told (within the interpretations given to Daniel) that the four empires (called "kingdoms" in Daniel) succeeding the Babylonian (head of gold, lion with eagles wings) which will dominate the Mediterranean region are the Medo-Persian (breast and arms of silver, bear with three ribs in its mouth, and ram with two horns), the Graeco-Macedonian (belly and thighs of brass, leopard with four wings, and the rough goat), the Roman (legs of iron, a dreadful and terrible beast), and the revived Roman (iron and clay, ten horns) empires. That is also what world history confirms. The Antichrist will use this last "empire" for his own purposes (Rev 13). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted July 8, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,205 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) Hi Ezra, History has `come & gone` as God said it would & we are now in contemporary times. And God also said that the `Assyrian` would be the leader that He destroys when He comes. (Isa. 31: 4 - 9) Assyria is now getting firmly under the control of the Islamic State. (Iraq, Syria & Jordan.) Watch as God`s word comes to pass in our times & not just history! Marilyn. Edited July 9, 2015 by Marilyn C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted July 9, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,205 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Daniel 2:43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men; but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. So is the they the Roman empire, or something/one else? Hi 19Duggarfan, I have been taught back in the `60`s, & I believe that the iron & clay are the two factions of Islam - the Sunni & the Shi-ites. That is why they are continually fighting as they do not mix. It will take the anti-Christ to bring them together. And what a powerful force that will be!!!!!! Marilyn. Anti Christ to bring them together? Meaning against Christians? Hi Tanusha, Pleased to meet you. I have seen you around the forum & you have posted some very good, encouraging topics for people. Good on you. Now to your question. Thank you for asking me. Yes I believe the global leader, the one against Christ (anti-Christ) will bring the warring factions of Islam together & they will form a very formible federation in the world. My question is when looking at the 4th beast in Dan. 7, do we think this is Europe (Revived Roman Empire????) or Islam? `After this I saw in the night visions, & behold, a fourth beast, dreadful & terrible, exceedingly strong. it had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces & trampling .......` (Dan. 7: 7) So who is this terrifying beast? Is it Europe or Islam? (or....) Then to your question, is this against the Christians. `And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth & their armies, gathered together to make war against him who sat on the horse & against his army.` (Rev. 19: 19) This is I believe, the Lord & His angelic army as He told us. `For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels,...` (Matt. 16: 27) Hope that helps, Tanusha. Blessings, Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bible2 Posted July 13, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 642 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 405 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2015 19Duggarfan said in post 1: So is the they the Roman empire, or something/one else? Daniel 2:42-43 might best be understood in the light of Daniel 7. For in Daniel 7, the first 3 beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). And the 4th beast, or 4th "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman empire. And the 10 horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent 10 major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These 10 nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The 10 part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the 10 horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Arab Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities. But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one federation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the 10 as a singular "kingdom". The person who brings this about could be the Antichrist. The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9), which is "diverse" from the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24), could mean that the Antichrist will arise from a little country. And the little horn arising from "among" the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman empire. And before that, it was part of one of the 4 Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these 4 kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist federation of 3 of the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This federation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, i.e. a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9). This Baathist federation could be put together in the future by an Iraqi Baathist General who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control of all 10 of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like when Napoleon gained control of different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bejon Posted July 13, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 15 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/02/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1977 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Daniel 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men; but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. So is the they the Roman empire, or something/one else? Dear Duggarfan, I personally take Daniel's fourth kingdom to be a depiction of the (spiritual and worldwide) empire of Satan, while I take the "they" who mingle themselves with the seed of men to be Satan's subjects (in particular, a group of demonic entities of some kind), which explains why they're said to mingle with "the seed of men" (they're not men themselves). I have a few other reasons for my view, which I could gladly provide further details on if you're interested. God bless in your further studies on and consideration of this very important section of God's word. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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