Is the nuclear deal a good thing

[oldzimm]

oldzimm - Failed military??? If there is a failure in any war we were involved in it would be because politicians thought they knew more about war than the warriors.

 

So true, wasn't that the case with Vietnam.  Our involvement in the ME whether by conflict or support of repressive regimes has prompted the chaos we see today. The initial "wars" were a success but in the long term they were decidedly a failure. Our support of repressive regimes gave rise to the extremists first as a local issue but because of the US support there rose strong hatred towards America.  The roots of ISIS originated in 2004, and even had  the US committed to an endless occupation I doubt things would turn out much different. You so accurately state  that the politicians stay out of it ...  but their politicians, they know best!

I agree Vietnam is also such a case of politicians getting involved in something they know nothing about, they tired the hands of the military (can't go to Cambodia), but how far back in history should we go.

 

I understand why Other one would wonder about what does this thread have to do with God. My only answer would be since the fall of man there has been a battle between good and evil. I believe that battle will be coming to a head real soon and topics like this thread are what is setting the world stage for this battle. I fear for our fellow man, for I think it is going to get real ugly (blood as high as a horses bridle, for 180 miles), but we know in the end who the winner is, Jesus the King of kings.

 

Oldzimm 

[Tolken]

oldzimm -... but we know in the end who the winner is, Jesus the King of kings.

 

Blessings oldzimm..............

[Guest shiloh357]

We don't have a failed military.  We have a leftist and a failure in the White House.  Stuff like this is a good example as to why we don't need another socialist, pro-Muslim, pro-gay liberal in charge. 

[oldzimm]

We don't have a failed military.  We have a leftist and a failure in the White House.  Stuff like this is a good example as to why we don't need another socialist, pro-Muslim, pro-gay liberal in charge. 

[Marilyn C]

These excerpts are taken from an article by Avi Ssacharoff, titled `The Day Obama Awarded Iran Hegemony In The Middle East.

The greater danger of this accord, however, is that far from being the least of all evils, it is the very epitome of evil when it comes to the future of the Middle East. It has determined the result of the Sunni-Shiite struggle; July 14, 2015 is likely to resonate as one of the darkest days in the history of this region, especially as regards the moderate Arab Sunni states.

For several years now, countries such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the Gulf States have been struggling against Islamic extremism from the likes of Al Qaida and the Islamic State on the one hand, and the Iranian Shiite axis on the other. Now that struggle will become far more complicated.

Iran emerges from this accord strengthened, stable and with endless resources that will be directed to weaken those countries by every means possible. By bringing hundreds of millions of dollars to Iran, this agreement will enable the regime to extend its influence throughout the region, to establish areas of influence even in areas where it has hitherto not been involved. That adds up to the worst possible news for the Saudi royal family, the Egyptian presidency and of course, for Israel.

The clearest current example of this is that after four months when Iran delayed transferring financial assistance to Hamas and Islamic Jihad because of budgetary concerns, it has in the last few days renewed the flow of money to Palestinian terror groups in Gaza — precisely because the accord gave it the confidence to do so.

It is hard to believe that anybody in this region — Israeli, Palestinian, Arab or Iranian — was surprised that an agreement was reached. Both sides, and especially the two key players, the US and Iran, wanted it. President Obama sought a foreign policy achievement. Rouhani and Foreign Minister Zarif wanted the support of their people.

And both sides will reap the benefits. Obama will win public approval for the agreement, and Rouhani will likely be re-elected president in 2017. It is the people of the Middle East who will pay — and mainly the Sunnis and the Israelis.

One can understand why Obama wanted an achievement like this, that would push Iran away from a nuclear bomb. But the price is extremely heavy. To some extent Obama chose the “Great Satan,” Iran, over the “Little Satan,” Islamic State. That is to say, he allowed some 20,000-30,000 IS fighters to push him into the arms of one of the biggest military powers in the region, with hundreds of thousands of soldiers and a devastating military arsenal that can also hit Europe.

If anybody thought that it was only in the Middle East that logic and common sense can be absent, they discovered on Tuesday that those problems also apply on Pennsylvania Avenue. Somebody in the White House forgot their elementary school arithmetic.

Read more at http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2015/July15/151.html#HxYH9syaLwlqzJ0W.99

[Tolken]

shiloh357 wrote - We don't have a failed military.  We have a leftist and a failure in the White House.  Stuff like this is a good example as to why we don't need another socialist, pro-Muslim, pro-gay liberal in charge.

 

Obama didn't support the repressive regime of the Pahlavi, Obama didn't supply the materials for chemical weapons to Iraq to use on Iran, Obama wasn't involved with Iran/Contra, Obama didn't start the Iraq war on false premises and then turn the country to chaos, ...so tell us about the republican failures that started this mess. Tell me too why Iran should have any trust in the United States that supplied the material and supported the use of nerve and toxic gases that took the lives of tens of thousands of Iranians?  Of course everyone, mostly repubs, were  eager to bomb Syria for using chemical weapons ... such hypocrites. I appreciate the myopia and extreme bias that causes one to neglect history and heap all of the ills domestically and in the world on the current administration but some rational people are capable of a more objective view.

[oldzimm]

shiloh357 wrote - We don't have a failed military.  We have a leftist and a failure in the White House.  Stuff like this is a good example as to why we don't need another socialist, pro-Muslim, pro-gay liberal in charge.

 

Obama didn't support the repressive regime of the Pahlavi, Obama didn't supply the materials for chemical weapons to Iraq to use on Iran, Obama wasn't involved with Iran/Contra, Obama didn't start the Iraq war on false premises and then turn the country to chaos, ...so tell us about the republican failures that started this mess. Tell me too why Iran should have any trust in the United States that supplied the material and supported the use of nerve and toxic gases that took the lives of tens of thousands of Iranians?  Of course everyone, mostly repubs, were  eager to bomb Syria for using chemical weapons ... such hypocrites. I appreciate the myopia and extreme bias that causes one to neglect history and heap all of the ills domestically and in the world on the current administration but some rational people are capable of a more objective view.

I didn't know Obama was a Saint, please tell of his good Christian fruits he has accomplished since he has been in office? Tell us how many unborn babies he has saved. Tell about how he is bringing the country's racial divide together instead of separating them by his own actions or lack of his actions. Tell me about his healthcare plan where we can choose our own doctor and how it brought our insurance premiums down. Tell us of his dislike for the sin of homosexuality. Tell us how he is making our country safer by not closing the borders or by his weakening of the military. Tell us how he cares so much for Christian that have been in prison in countries like Iran and how much he has tried to get them out. Tell us how he tried to save those four Americans that were killed in Benghazi and how he gave the enemy the weapons to do it. Tells us about the guns he gave to the drug cartel in Mexico, the same guns that were used to kill US Border Agents.

 

The bottom line is all presidents have skeletons in their closet or things they would change if they had it to do over again, the problem with Obama is that he sees himself as king and he has done no wrong.

 

FYI, WMD's were found in Iraq. but that's not the real reason I was there, I found out while I was there why God wanted me there.

 

Oldzimm 

[Guest shiloh357]

Tolken,

 

My disgust with and rejection of Obama isn't a whitewash of Republican errors and the missteps of any previous administrations.   Nor, am I placing all of the world's ills on Obama's shoulders. But he is a horrible president, nonetheless.   He shoved a health care system down our throats that no one really likes, and he did through lying and dishonesty.   His administration is extremely scandal ridden and he supports abominations like gay marriage.   He has met with leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood in the White House as if the Muslim Brotherhood were world leaders and not bloodthirsty terrorists.  

 

There are no redeeming qualities about this socialist, pro-Muslim, pro-sodomite Administration.

[Messianic Urban]

If you have on Godly nation from the whitehouse places of worship to the family then we are in. I agreement,we turn on Israel with this agreement we shall fLl shortly.

[Tolken]

oldzimm and shiloh357 – Let me me be very clear as I do not consider Obama a “saint” or a great president, I do however think much of the criticism is simply unwarranted. The specific point is the Nuclear “deal” with Iran, the opposition to this is either through hatred of Obama or simply hatred of Iran...the details and merits of the deal are inconsequential. Most won’t admit to the fact that few will hold an objective view.

 

As to your list oldzimm it can be easily turned around:  How many unborn babies did Reagan or either Bush save? (Obviously I’m opposed to abortion but there were more abortions under Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and GW Bush than Obama’s – meaningless but a point nonetheless)  Healthcare has been out of control for years and doubling as a percent of GDP (and a continuing higher percent of personal income), so I believe ACA is a great first step and if reasoned non-partisan minds would work together the system could be made better.

 

As for “Fast and Furious” consider this http://fortune.com/2012/06/27/the-truth-about-the-fast-and-furious-scandal/

 

Yes, WMDs were found, and known about because they were old chemical weapons stores from the 80’s which the UN inspectors knew about all along. It was covered up because a) it didn’t amount to a justification for war/occupation, and b) the weapons were built in collaboration with the US.  If one chooses to fact check they will find the Obama administration to be no more “scandal ridden” than previous administrations, which in the overall says much about our dysfunctional government .

 

One should also consider that as shiloh357 and others promote as the appropriate view on economics to be “People don't go into business to make peanuts and if folks don't like what they are getting paid, then go work somewhere else.  No one has a gun to their head and telling them to stay.” therefore shiloh357 should give credit to Obama for the all time high wealth and corporate profits...the top 1% is growing exponentially, a good thing.

 

As I have noted time and again we have 50 plus years of failed policy and misguided intervention in the Middle East. Call it “pro-muslim” if you like but I think a worthwhile tact is to pursue diplomatic solutions rather than aggressive reactions. The viewpoint from any side is decidedly skewed. We only view the radicals and terrorists and government rhetoric but the everyday people have little interest in war, hate, confrontation, and really only seek to “live life” in peace. (In Russia even in unbelievably difficult economic times Putin is able to cast the blame elsewhere, promote nationalism, and gain high approval ratings) We are inculcated by our various governments to believe what they want us to believe, unfortunately like sheep - but following the wrong Shepherd.  As for our leadership I prefer objective evaluations, and prayer to vitriol.

 

I think from all that I have read it is a good deal, and the alternatives portend much worse outcomes. We either turn the page to a cautious change in policy direction or use the same manual that has led us nowhere.