FresnoJoe Posted July 24, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I heartly support spiritual zionism as described.... in this entry in the Jewish Virtual Library.... I cannot condone or support the other.... nationalistic forms.... ~ Beloved, The Funny Thing About Spiritual Zion And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 1 Corinthians 2:4 It Also Includes The Physical Zion On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light. On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter. The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name. Zechariah 14:7-9 As Is It's KING Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:27-28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 littleflower, you are confusing types of Zionists with types of Zionism. Zionism doesn't have multiple definitions. There are people who have their own customized version of Zionism based on their personal agenda for Zionism. Only in that sense are their different kinds of Zionism. The definition I provided is what Zionism is and it is not my personal definition. I didn't make that up, myself. Your problem is that your view of Zionism is poisoned by the lies and misinformation put out by the Muslim community and ignorant, radical, racist leftists who hate Israel and hate the Jews. This entire thread has been about you citing mostly websites that are anti-Semitic and hostile toward Israel while at the same time trying to profess love for the Jewish people. You are either unable or unwilling to take good hard look at the moral inconsistency in promoting anti-Israel and anti-Semitic claims and yet denying that you are anti-Semitic. You get your information mostly from people who hate Jews and you have even tried to defend their claims, but argue that you don't hate Jews. You are simply not believable, nor trustworthy. The definition of Zionism I provided could apply to any people group, really. If that were denied to ANY other race on this planet, it would be considered as bigoted and racist, but when it is denied to the Jews, suddenly the rules change. You have done your dead level best to discredit Israel using the most vile hateful websites on the internet to do it. When you say that you cannot support any nationalistic forms of Zionism, then you lied earlier when you claimed that you were not denying Israel's right to exist as a nation. The truth now finally comes out. You don't accept Israel's right to exist as a nation. Accepting the legitimacy of Israel as a nation is not a wholesale acceptance of everything out there related to "nationalistic" Zionism. But I doubt you can bring yourself to be honest about that. Since the Bible prophesies God's restoration of national Israel, I guess you reject God's word as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted July 25, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.76 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 littleflower, you are confusing types of Zionists with types of Zionism. Zionism doesn't have multiple definitions. There are people who have their own customized version of Zionism based on their personal agenda for Zionism. Only in that sense are their different kinds of Zionism. The definition I provided is what Zionism is and it is not my personal definition. I didn't make that up, myself. Your problem is that your view of Zionism is poisoned by the lies and misinformation put out by the Muslim community and ignorant, radical, racist leftists who hate Israel and hate the Jews. This entire thread has been about you citing mostly websites that are anti-Semitic and hostile toward Israel while at the same time trying to profess love for the Jewish people. You are either unable or unwilling to take good hard look at the moral inconsistency in promoting anti-Israel and anti-Semitic claims and yet denying that you are anti-Semitic. You get your information mostly from people who hate Jews and you have even tried to defend their claims, but argue that you don't hate Jews. You are simply not believable, nor trustworthy. The definition of Zionism I provided could apply to any people group, really. If that were denied to ANY other race on this planet, it would be considered as bigoted and racist, but when it is denied to the Jews, suddenly the rules change. You have done your dead level best to discredit Israel using the most vile hateful websites on the internet to do it. When you say that you cannot support any nationalistic forms of Zionism, then you lied earlier when you claimed that you were not denying Israel's right to exist as a nation. The truth now finally comes out. You don't accept Israel's right to exist as a nation. Accepting the legitimacy of Israel as a nation is not a wholesale acceptance of everything out there related to "nationalistic" Zionism. But I doubt you can bring yourself to be honest about that. Since the Bible prophesies God's restoration of national Israel, I guess you reject God's word as well. I support you on this shiloh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 25, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.68 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2015 littleflower, you are confusing types of Zionists with types of Zionism. Zionism doesn't have multiple definitions. There are people who have their own customized version of Zionism based on their personal agenda for Zionism. Only in that sense are their different kinds of Zionism. The definition I provided is what Zionism is and it is not my personal definition. I didn't make that up, myself. Your problem is that your view of Zionism is poisoned by the lies and misinformation put out by the Muslim community and ignorant, radical, racist leftists who hate Israel and hate the Jews. This entire thread has been about you citing mostly websites that are anti-Semitic and hostile toward Israel while at the same time trying to profess love for the Jewish people. You are either unable or unwilling to take good hard look at the moral inconsistency in promoting anti-Israel and anti-Semitic claims and yet denying that you are anti-Semitic. You get your information mostly from people who hate Jews and you have even tried to defend their claims, but argue that you don't hate Jews. You are simply not believable, nor trustworthy. The definition of Zionism I provided could apply to any people group, really. If that were denied to ANY other race on this planet, it would be considered as bigoted and racist, but when it is denied to the Jews, suddenly the rules change. You have done your dead level best to discredit Israel using the most vile hateful websites on the internet to do it. When you say that you cannot support any nationalistic forms of Zionism, then you lied earlier when you claimed that you were not denying Israel's right to exist as a nation. The truth now finally comes out. You don't accept Israel's right to exist as a nation. Accepting the legitimacy of Israel as a nation is not a wholesale acceptance of everything out there related to "nationalistic" Zionism. But I doubt you can bring yourself to be honest about that. Since the Bible prophesies God's restoration of national Israel, I guess you reject God's word as well. I support you on this shiloh. Shiloh has simply confused a national zionism with a country. The country of Israel can exist without national zionism, but because shiloh can't conceive of that possibility, then the two are inextricably linked in his mind together. The reality is they are not inextricably linked and are very much two separate concepts. Israel exists. Israel therefore has a right to exist. Israel does not need national zionism to exist or continue to exist. The logic here is very simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Zionism comprises the founding principles of Israel. Israel was founded on Zionism. The entire notion of Israel's existence is rooted in Zionism. Take away Zionism, and Israel ceases to be. That is why anti-Zionism is a racist ideology that has at it's heart the de-establishment, the complete dismantling of Israel. None of the racists that littleflower agrees with make the argument that, "we love Israel, but not Zionism." No other anti-Zionist makes that argument or makes the kind of bogus distinction that littleflower is endeavoring to make in futility. Anti-Zionists the world over, are committed to seeing Israel dismantled. Anti-Zionism IS anti-Israel and none of the lame arguments littleflower tries to make will change that. Littleflower is ignorant on this issue and is intellectually disqualified from even debating me on this. She has no idea what she is talking about, her views on Zionism are based on lies and hate. She has a an imaginative, but fictitious and utterly racist view of Zionism and what it is. And she tries to redefine anti-Zionism, as well. Since she can't be honest about what Zionism is, or what anti-Zionism is, she really doesn't belong on this conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted July 25, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted July 25, 2015 There's nothing "evil" about that at all. In fact, its one good reason why Israel hasn't been invaded. Those nukes and the certifiable threat of mutually assured destruction is a principle that the US adheres to. Mutually assured destruction does not work with Muslim states. They are not afraid of death. Suicide bombers do not cherish life, not even their own. The Kamikaze mentality was instilled into jihadis long before the Japanese were doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted July 25, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted July 25, 2015 So you believe it is a good thing for Israel to target and attack nations that aren't attacking Israel simply because it appears Israel is going to lose a fight with someone else? An attack, the shear size of which, Israel itself has said will most likely destroy life on earth? All Israel's neighbours are intending to attack her. It's not as if Israel is pointing nukes at Sweden or Outer Mongolia. The Samson option will NOT destroy all life on Earth and was never intended to. The Israeli capability to take down the World is not referring to destroying all life. It is merely an expression meaning 'we will take on the entire World if necessary'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted July 25, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted July 25, 2015 littleflower, you are confusing types of Zionists with types of Zionism. Zionism doesn't have multiple definitions. There are people who have their own customized version of Zionism based on their personal agenda for Zionism. Only in that sense are their different kinds of Zionism. The definition I provided is what Zionism is and it is not my personal definition. I didn't make that up, myself. Your problem is that your view of Zionism is poisoned by the lies and misinformation put out by the Muslim community and ignorant, radical, racist leftists who hate Israel and hate the Jews. This entire thread has been about you citing mostly websites that are anti-Semitic and hostile toward Israel while at the same time trying to profess love for the Jewish people. You are either unable or unwilling to take good hard look at the moral inconsistency in promoting anti-Israel and anti-Semitic claims and yet denying that you are anti-Semitic. You get your information mostly from people who hate Jews and you have even tried to defend their claims, but argue that you don't hate Jews. You are simply not believable, nor trustworthy. The definition of Zionism I provided could apply to any people group, really. If that were denied to ANY other race on this planet, it would be considered as bigoted and racist, but when it is denied to the Jews, suddenly the rules change. You have done your dead level best to discredit Israel using the most vile hateful websites on the internet to do it. When you say that you cannot support any nationalistic forms of Zionism, then you lied earlier when you claimed that you were not denying Israel's right to exist as a nation. The truth now finally comes out. You don't accept Israel's right to exist as a nation. Accepting the legitimacy of Israel as a nation is not a wholesale acceptance of everything out there related to "nationalistic" Zionism. But I doubt you can bring yourself to be honest about that. Since the Bible prophesies God's restoration of national Israel, I guess you reject God's word as well. I support you on this shiloh. Shiloh has simply confused a national zionism with a country. The country of Israel can exist without national zionism, but because shiloh can't conceive of that possibility, then the two are inextricably linked in his mind together. The reality is they are not inextricably linked and are very much two separate concepts. Israel exists. Israel therefore has a right to exist. Israel does not need national zionism to exist or continue to exist. The logic here is very simple. Your logic is wrong. The nation of Israel may exist but it exists as a Jewish state founded as a homeland for the Jews, whatever else it may be as well. Zionism means the right for Jews to return to their homeland - it's that simple. Israel DOES need Zionism in order to continue to exist otherwise it would not be Israel, just some nation with the same name. It's like saying that France does not need French people, French culture or French values in order to exist.... of course you could kick out all the French, fill the country with Germans, Japanese and little green men from Mars, change the national language to Swahili and still call it 'France' but it wouldn't be France. Likewise, Israel is not Israel unless it provides a safe haven for the Jewish people and provides the 'right to return'. That safe haven and right is known as 'Zionism'. The Bible makes it clear that God is very strong on Zionism..... ! If you are not a Zionist then you are against the Almighty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted July 25, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.76 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 Question: "What is Zionism / Christian Zionism?" Answer: Zionism, simply a political movement at its inception, has today become more of an ideology than anything else. Zionism is an international movement for the return of the Jewish people to Zion, the land of Israel, while exercising the right to retain authority of government over the state of Israel, which was promised to them in the Hebrew Scriptures. The roots for Zionism lie in Genesis chapters 12 and 15, in which God makes a covenant with Abraham promising him that his descendants would inherit the land between Egypt and the Euphrates River.Due to the fact that Zionism was begun as a politically motivated movement, there exists among secular Gentiles and non-religious Jews a line of thought stating that the religious background of the Jewish people had nothing to do with Zionism. It is argued that Zionism was instead a reaction of the Jewish people to worldwide persecution during World Wars I and II. No nation would take them in, so they were forced to create their own nation, the land of their ancestry being the most opportune place.Regardless, the Zionist movement, begun in the late 1890s, found fulfillment in 1948 when Israel was officially recognized as a state and granted sovereignty as a nation within Palestine by the United Nations. This is when, technically, the political Zionist movement ended and the ideology of Zionism began, and as such, has become a much-debated topic. Some would say that Zionism has become a motivation for racism, or a reaction against anti-Semitism. Others believe that Zionism as it currently exists is merely Jewish patriotism.Associated with Jewish Zionism is Christian Zionism. Christian Zionism is simply Gentile support of Jewish Zionism as based on the promises to Israel found in the Bible, passages such as Jeremiah 32 and Ezekiel 34. Christian Zionists are primarily evangelical and give support in any way possible to the Jewish state of Israel. The return of the Jews to the Promised Land is the fulfillment of prophecy and is seen, especially by dispensationalists, as a sign that the world has entered the end times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 26, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.68 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 26, 2015 littleflower, you are confusing types of Zionists with types of Zionism. Zionism doesn't have multiple definitions. There are people who have their own customized version of Zionism based on their personal agenda for Zionism. Only in that sense are their different kinds of Zionism. The definition I provided is what Zionism is and it is not my personal definition. I didn't make that up, myself. Your problem is that your view of Zionism is poisoned by the lies and misinformation put out by the Muslim community and ignorant, radical, racist leftists who hate Israel and hate the Jews. This entire thread has been about you citing mostly websites that are anti-Semitic and hostile toward Israel while at the same time trying to profess love for the Jewish people. You are either unable or unwilling to take good hard look at the moral inconsistency in promoting anti-Israel and anti-Semitic claims and yet denying that you are anti-Semitic. You get your information mostly from people who hate Jews and you have even tried to defend their claims, but argue that you don't hate Jews. You are simply not believable, nor trustworthy. The definition of Zionism I provided could apply to any people group, really. If that were denied to ANY other race on this planet, it would be considered as bigoted and racist, but when it is denied to the Jews, suddenly the rules change. You have done your dead level best to discredit Israel using the most vile hateful websites on the internet to do it. When you say that you cannot support any nationalistic forms of Zionism, then you lied earlier when you claimed that you were not denying Israel's right to exist as a nation. The truth now finally comes out. You don't accept Israel's right to exist as a nation. Accepting the legitimacy of Israel as a nation is not a wholesale acceptance of everything out there related to "nationalistic" Zionism. But I doubt you can bring yourself to be honest about that. Since the Bible prophesies God's restoration of national Israel, I guess you reject God's word as well. I support you on this shiloh. Shiloh has simply confused a national zionism with a country. The country of Israel can exist without national zionism, but because shiloh can't conceive of that possibility, then the two are inextricably linked in his mind together. The reality is they are not inextricably linked and are very much two separate concepts. Israel exists. Israel therefore has a right to exist. Israel does not need national zionism to exist or continue to exist. The logic here is very simple. Your logic is wrong. The nation of Israel may exist but it exists as a Jewish state founded as a homeland for the Jews, whatever else it may be as well. Zionism means the right for Jews to return to their homeland - it's that simple. Israel DOES need Zionism in order to continue to exist otherwise it would not be Israel, just some nation with the same name. It's like saying that France does not need French people, French culture or French values in order to exist.... of course you could kick out all the French, fill the country with Germans, Japanese and little green men from Mars, change the national language to Swahili and still call it 'France' but it wouldn't be France. Likewise, Israel is not Israel unless it provides a safe haven for the Jewish people and provides the 'right to return'. That safe haven and right is known as 'Zionism'. The Bible makes it clear that God is very strong on Zionism..... ! If you are not a Zionist then you are against the Almighty. I am sorry, but that rhetoric no longer holds sway over me. There is no truth to a claim that to be against a political movement is to be against the Almighty. It is a sin in God's eyes to bear false witness against your neighbor. Exodus 20:16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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