thereselittleflower Posted September 19, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) Yahweh.Amen. The NEW covenant made the old obsolete. We are to remember what our LORD has done, and study His Word. His sacrifice cannot be trumped by our works. And at the heart of this whole question is the question regarding what is the New Covenant? How we understand what the New Covenant is drives our understanding of sacraments. Can one have salvation if one does not respond to God's free gift? Edited September 19, 2015 by thereselittleflower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken Posted September 19, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,379 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2015 That is understood Therese. I do not personally believe that salvation or God's grace and mercy through His sacrifice can be added to, or contain any requirements other than faith. Works follow faith, but that is a test of one's faith, not a prerequisite . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted September 19, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2015 That is understood Therese. I do not personally believe that salvation or God's grace and mercy through His sacrifice can be added to, or contain any requirements other than faith. Works follow faith, but that is a test of one's faith, not a prerequisite . Faith must find expression, correct? There must be a response to God's offer of salvation or it sits there and does nothing to help us, correct?What did you do to be saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken Posted September 19, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,379 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2015 You know all too well sister. I confessed with my mouth, and believed in my heart. There is nothing beyond that. That is only an acknowledgement / agreement of what HE did. That was my ACCEPTANCE of the covenant, and His offer. It was only that, and nothing more. If my life has not reflected that, then I am a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted September 19, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2015 You know all too well sister. I confessed with my mouth, and believed in my heart. There is nothing beyond that. That is only an acknowledgement / agreement of what HE did. That was my ACCEPTANCE of the covenant, and His offer. It was only that, and nothing more. If my life has not reflected that, then I am a liar. That's my point my dear brother. You had to respond in some fashion. So responses to faith, in faith, are not the works you were decrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken Posted September 19, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,379 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2015 I don't know that I have decryed any works. Faith without works is pointless, as scripture teaches ( but are fruit as the result of faith ). Still, my response ( in faith - by the grace of almighty God ) was a response to HIS sacrifice and covenant, a PERFECT sacrifice and glorious offering. I simply and without merit, answered and accepted. I did NOTHING to earn that privilege, else I make God a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted September 19, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2015 I don't know that I have decryed any works. Faith without works is pointless, as scripture teaches ( but are fruit as the result of faith ). Still, my response ( in faith - by the grace of almighty God ) was in response to HIS sacrifice and covenant, a PERFECT sacrifice and glorious offering. I simply and without merit, answered and accepted. I did NOTHING to earn that privilege, else I make God a liar. I completely agree with you we can do nothing of ourselves to earn that privilege. it is, indeed a free gift. This is indeed Catholic teaching as well. Anything we do in and of ourselves, of our own power, avails us nothing in regards to eternal salvation. Our very best is as filthy rags to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken Posted September 19, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,379 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2015 I don't know that I have decryed any works. Faith without works is pointless, as scripture teaches ( but are fruit as the result of faith ). Still, my response ( in faith - by the grace of almighty God ) was in response to HIS sacrifice and covenant, a PERFECT sacrifice and glorious offering. I simply and without merit, answered and accepted. I did NOTHING to earn that privilege, else I make God a liar. I completely agree with you we can do nothing of ourselves to earn that privilege. it is, indeed a free gift. This is indeed Catholic teaching as well. Anything we do in and of ourselves, of our own power, avails us nothing in regards to eternal salvation. Our very best is as filthy rags to God. Amen. I don't believe it is a really Catholic or Protestant teaching, but those who hold onto that truth ( which is His truth ) are counted among His flock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted September 19, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) I don't know that I have decryed any works. Faith without works is pointless, as scripture teaches ( but are fruit as the result of faith ). Still, my response ( in faith - by the grace of almighty God ) was in response to HIS sacrifice and covenant, a PERFECT sacrifice and glorious offering. I simply and without merit, answered and accepted. I did NOTHING to earn that privilege, else I make God a liar. I completely agree with you we can do nothing of ourselves to earn that privilege. it is, indeed a free gift. This is indeed Catholic teaching as well. Anything we do in and of ourselves, of our own power, avails us nothing in regards to eternal salvation. Our very best is as filthy rags to God. Amen. I don't believe it is a Catholic or Protestant teaching, but those who hold onto that truth ( which is His truth ) are counted among His flock. Well, what we have been just talking about actually is the teaching of the Catholic Church:It is furthermore declared that in adults the beginning of that justification must proceed from the predisposing grace of God through Jesus Christ, that is, from His vocation, whereby, without any merits on their part, they are called; that they who by sin had been cut off from God, may be disposed through His quickening and helping grace to convert themselves to their own justification by freely assenting to and cooperating with that grace; so that, while God touches the heart of man through the illumination of the Holy Ghost, man himself neither does absolutely nothing while receiving that inspiration, since he can also reject it, nor yet is he able by his own free will and without the grace of God to move himself to justice in His sight.Council of Trent Edited September 19, 2015 by thereselittleflower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted September 20, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 Yahweh.Exactly! So the next question is who made the Sacraments necessary for salvation, and is that not an attack on the Gospel offering the gift of eternal life? I completely agree with you we can do nothing of ourselves to earn that privilege. it is, indeed a free gift. This is indeed Catholic teaching as well.[/quote] Since Sacramentalism is the teaching of the Catholic Church, it cancels out the free gift of eternal life. Please note what NewAdvent.org says and then go directly to the Council of Trent:In this sense the Council of Trent (Sess. VII, can. 4) declared heretical those who assert that the sacraments of the New Law are superfluous and not necessary, although all are not necessary for each individual. [note the hedging of bets at the end]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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