Breaking - Oregon college shooting

[thereselittleflower]

I asked you a question-you brought up those wrongfully committed, which is true, some are-should we let the criminals run free just because a few got wrongfully convicted? its a yes or no question.

And I'm asking you a question in return?  Should we execute innocent people to try to keep criminals from running free?

Where does Jesus teach we should take innocent lives so criminals can't run free?

 

Let me make this more personal:

 

Should you be executed if wrongly convicted so criminals can't run free?

 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[The_Patriot21]

alright fine well I guess if you dont want to answer the question, then we will just assume its because you dont have a good answer for it, and move on back to the original topic. 

[thereselittleflower]

alright fine well I guess if you dont want to answer the question, then we will just assume its because you dont have a good answer for it, and move on back to the original topic. 

Patriot, I do not believe it is right to do an evil that good may come of it.   I believe such a philosphy is ethically fundamentally wrong in its very core and  comes straight from the pit of hell.

 

 

[The_Patriot21]

So you would let criminals go just because of a few wrongfully committed people?

[*Deidre*]

It's not a gun problem, it's a heart problem. Look at what happened on 9/11. No guns were involved that tragic day. I'm not pro-gun though, I lean more towards the anti-gun group, but I don't think that these cases are examples of a gun problem, as much as examples showing how mankind displays its depravity. So sad.

[thereselittleflower]

So you would let criminals go just because of a few wrongfully committed people?

Your question is a strawman.    I didn't leave it at wrongfully committed.

 

Edited October 7, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[thereselittleflower]

Also Patriot, what do you consider "a few"  ?

 

Many Prisoners on Death Row are Wrongfully Convicted

The issue affects a significant number of people. Since 1973 144 death-sentenced defendants have been exonerated in the U.S. But Gross says that the analysis indicates that at least 340 people would have been put to death unjustly in that same time period. “There are no other reliable estimates of the rate of false conviction in any context,” the researchers wrote in the study, published online on April 28 inProceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

The researchers also note that a 4.1 percent rate of false conviction is conservative, 

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/many-prisoners-on-death-row-are-wrongfully-convicted/

 

As of April 1, 2015, there were 3,002 death row inmates in the United States. 

Total Number of Death Row Inmates as of April 1, 2015: 3,002

 

State	# of Inmates		State	# of Inmates		State	# of Inmates
California	746		Oklahoma	48		Kansas	9
Florida	401		Mississippi	48		Utah	9
Texas	271		S. Carolina	44		Washington	9
Alabama	201		Oregon	36		Virginia	8
Penn.	184		Missouri	33		U.S. Military	6
N. Carolina	157		Kentucky	34		Colorado	3
Ohio	145		Arkansas	35		South Dakota	3
Arizona	124		Delaware	17		Montana	2
Georgia	85		Indiana	14		New Mexico*	2
Louisiana	85		Connecticut**	12		Wyoming	1
Nevada	78		Nebraska	11		New Hampshire	1
Tennessee	73		Idaho	11
U.S. Gov't.	61

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-row-inmates-state-and-size-death-row-year

 

 

SIZE OF DEATH ROW BY YEAR - (1968 - present)

---

1968	517	1982	1,050	1996	3,219	2010	3,158
1969	575	1983	1,209	1997	3,335	2011	3,082
1970	631	1984	1,405	1998	3,452	2012	3,033
1971	642	1985	1,591	1999	3,527	2013	2,979
1972	334	1986	1,781	2000	3,593	2014*	3,054
1973	134	1987	1,984	2001	3,581	2015*	3,002
1974	244	1988	2,124	2002	3,557
1975	488	1989	2,250	2003	3,374
1976	420	1990	2,356	2004	3,315
1977	423	1991	2,482	2005	3,254
1978	482	1992	2,575	2006	3,228
1979	539	1993	2,716	2007	3,215
1980	691	1994	2,890	2008	3,207
1981	856	1995	3,054	2009	3,173

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-row-inmates-state-and-size-death-row-year

 

 

 

A few?    With a CONSERVATIVE 4.1% false conviction rate?    

 

 

 

This year there were over 3000 on death row at the same time as of April.

 

Using the CONSERVATIVE  4.1% false conviction rate above, that gives us  123+ people on death row who are actually innocent.   

 

If they all were to executed today,  123 innocent people would be murdered.    And that's a conservative estimation.

 

 

I guess the murder by execution of 123 innocent people this year would be ok?

 

 

 

And this is just those who are on death row.  This does not include those who are in prison for life for wrongly being convicted of murder.

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[The_Patriot21]

so, again, your ok with letting criminals go, just to protect a few that are wrongfully committed? its not a straw man question-its an honest question, that you won't give a straight answer to. And the reason you wont, is because you know, that your whole argument is entirely wrong. Thing is we can't do that, and expect to have a functioning society. That is chaos. Hey look over there, I want to kill 20 people, so I can do it, and theres nothing they can do about it. they wont. Thats anarchy. For society to exist, there needs to be rules, and they need to be enforced. any society NEEDS a justice system. No justice system is perfect, ours included, but ours is better then most. Are some wrongfully committed? sure. The system is flawed. But, the system is necessary. We can't let criminals run the street.

Anyone, with half a brain knows that. You look at those wrongfully committed 123 people. Ok, fine. lets look at the consequences. lets let those 3000 people out. Well, we have 123 that will go back into society and be productive, because they were innocent to begin with, and lets say another 200 that the experience of being there changed their lives and they decided to go straight (thats probably a fairly high number) Now, we have 2,677 murderers, rapists, and thugs, running the streets, doing whatever they please. Sure, youll feel good about yourself, for freeing those 323 people who are now productive members of society, until one of those 2,677 breaks into your house, murders your spouse and rapes your children right in front of you, before killing you. And lets not forget, that the thing that makes the system imperfect is humans-it is human nature, to be evil. So, now that those 2,677 are out, everyone else is going to see that, and that number will multiply, and with no justice system, well, that 2,677, will turn into the vast majority of the population in no time flat. 

See, you throw out straw man accusations, no I dont do those. I ask straight questions, I expect straight answers. If you believe something is true, then you should have no problem giving a straight answer. If you cant, its because you know that you have no ground to stand on, which in this case, you do not.

and since, you would rather falsely accuse me of straw man arguments-and because this isn't even the original topic-unless your further comments have to do with the original topic, I will no longer answer any of your arguments. If you want to start a seperate thread on the subject, and actually present clear, concise arguments and answers, instead of false accusations, then perhaps I will engage in a debate on the subject. But on this thread, the debate is done.

[*Deidre*]

Since the topic steered into a convo about the death penalty...IMHO, the DP should be banned in the U.S. And anywhere else, really. It is not an act of justice, even for those who are rightfully convicted. Eye for an eye and the world is blind - Gandhi

Ok...back to the OT. Just tossing my two cents in. 

[rjp34652]

Has the reader noticed the tendency of the media to focus upon firearm incidents that include Christians as a targeted group?

Has the reader noticed a singular LACK of attention upon Hollywood's preoccupation with violence and demonic subjects?  

I submit that the coverage we are witnessing is intended to get the Christian political right to support gun control.   Make no mistake that the political left means to remove all guns including;  sport use, collectables, references in education venues and personal defense.

Notice throughout all of this that Hollywood, always identified with the leftists in America, does not participate in any aspect of anti-violence.  Movies and TV are increasingly focused upon guns and violence for the sake of entertainment.

As grievous as the Oregon and Charleston events were - have you noticed that coverage 'milks' the public for sympathy?   What about the other mass shootings in America?  We hear nothing of them.  

Since the beginning of the year 2015 and counting for two days following the Oregon shooting, there were 297 incidents of mass shootings in America (where the definition of mass shooting is the killing or wounding of 3 or more people).     According to the FBI, the overwhelming majority of these are amongst lawless types, parking lot shootings behind the local bars, driveby shootings in poor neighborhoods and so on.  Street violence is mass violence too, but is not acknowledged by the national media.

Why is NOTHING being done to remove criminals from society - permanently?  ALL attention is focused upon the law abiding citizen.  Hypocritical speeches by government leadership IGNORS Hollywood's profiteering from violence (including guns that are not normally licensed for private possession).

What has happened to the outcry from churches against violence in the media for entertainment?   Have you checked the titles available on TV and movies lately?   The majority are violent or demonic.   Where is the voice of the church against Hollywood?   Our kids are playing the video games and watching the stuff in theaters and on TV.

Nobody cares.  We just pray for the grieving victims.  

The use of a gun in ANY crime should be considered a capital offense with execution as punishment, not a lingering life sentence.

The trafficking of illegal drugs should be punishable as a capital offense with execution as punishment, not a life sentence.

Nations that have enacted and enforced laws like this do not suffer as America does.   Punish the criminal, not the law abiding citizen.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

And I am sure innocent people are put to death as well.

There is a reason why we try to err on the side of caution.

 

 

Bleeding heart liberals have brought this once great country to its knees.  

There is now more sympathy for the criminal than the victim, more consideration for  individual debauchery and lawlessness than Godly righteousness.   America has forgotten God.  America has raised its collective fist in the face of the Almighty, morality and the good of the whole - and pushed individual rights to the fore.

As a result, we have murdered more than 57 million babies.  Where is your sympathy for this?  No aborted child is even allowed a day in court, yet we slaughter them like cattle and pigs.  The United States has more than one million people in prison - more than any other nation on earth. 

Something is wrong with the liberal attitude.

We have tried liberal methods and sympathy for fifty years and the result is murder in our streets, a ruined economy and endless pointless wars.

Unless we apply the rule of law, the nation as we know it will sink into oblivion.  Indeed, it's already approaching the breaking point.

So go on and feel sad for the bad guy.    Personally, I think he or she should get what's coming to them - and in no uncertain terms.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft... 

Edited October 7, 2015 by rjp34652