Confirming the Covenant

[Spock]

On December 21, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Ezra said:

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. (Dan 9:24).

It seems to me you can make a case for two positions here, although one may be greater than the other. 

1. This 70th week already has been fulfilled in Christ or possibly in 70 ad

2. It is future only- when a covenant, not the one Vespasian made, is confirmed with the many, whoever they are? Jews, Muslim nations, UN, etc

[rollinTHUNDER]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

Hi Esther and MG, 

i will be honest, I have not read this entire dialog between you two because I found the tone, the spirit, all wrong. It seemed like MG went off on you Esther for being anti- Semitic, but i cringe when I see that term being thrown out so freely. Most of the time there is a misunderstanding or misinterpretation being applied or people don't have all the facts to render a serious judgment like that against a fellow believer in Christ.  

I find nothing anti Semitic in this above post, and even if you said the beast or false prophet were Jewish, I would not find even that qualifying as anti Semitic.  So, I hope we can move on from these accusations and debate issues without resorting to name calling. 

Anyhow, I actually think people should go private to work out issues like this instead of going off in public.  Don't forget, "they will know me by their love for one another (not their name calling)."  

MG, you know I love you, but this thread did not feel right. Let me have it, I can take it.

spock

LOL - Spockster,

You look so different with a mod hat on!  Good advice, too.

[rollinTHUNDER]

On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2015 at 11:44 PM, Montana Marv said:

One cannot divide/split/separate the ONE Seven.  The One Seven is a continuous 7 year period of 1,260 days and 1,260 days.

What comes after the 69th Week:  The Church Age.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Right on, M&M!

The only thing that divides the 70th seven is the abomination of desolation.

Israel rejected Messiah, but will later accept one who will come in His own name (Obama-nation) comes immediately to mind, especially since he is now setting his sights on ruling the world.  Better start getting ready for the lawless one.

And don't look now, but it looks like they may be soon needing some sort of peace settlement in the Middle East.  And then they will also need to rebuild the Temple so Obama can do his dirty deed.

 

 

Cheers

[Spock]

On December 19, 2015 at 8:26 AM, Serving said:

 

I know what you mean .. I used to liken the spirit realm as the 'real world' whereas we are bound in a virtual reality world, as it were, where the 'gamers' (angels) can literally 'log in' (enter our realm) and 'log out' at will .. so to speak.

Keeping with your theme, I see these requirements fulfilled in Christ already :

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Some examples I've quickly thrown together .. so I'm not going for the strongest examples just the ones that come to mind first  ..

finish the transgression

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

to make an end of sins

Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

John is bolder :

John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

to make reconciliation for iniquity

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

to bring in everlasting righteousness

Romans 3:21-26  

26 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

to seal up the vision and prophecy

Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

to anoint the most holy

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

I believe that the Lord was anointed when the Spirit descended upon him after John baptised Him .. seeing every high priest must be anointed by God before he starts his ministry.

 

Again, there are better examples, but these should do to show that, as it stands, all these particular requirements for that verse were met by Christ already .. and all within the 70 weeks too .. other words, in this verse at least, there is no need for appeals to the 'future' for fulfilment.

 

Serving,

i applaud you for your research and efforts on this commentary to explain Daniel 9:24.

however, after pondering it overnight, I still feel this was NOT fulfilled in Christ at Calvary, but still believe, like Marv, that this is to be fulfilled in some future time. Thus, I'm still not convinced Daniels 70th week has been fulfilled. 

Of course, my opinion is just that, but I'm always open to receive other viewpoints as I seek to know God's truth even deeper. 

I appreciate you, 

spock

[Spock]

On December 21, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Ezra said:

If Daniel's 70th week had been fulfilled, we would be living in the period of everlasting righteousness on earth. Since we are surrounded by evildoers and there are daily reports of unspeakable atrocities being committed, that should prove that the fantasizers are simply fantasizing.  But we must leave them to it.

Ezra, I have to agree with you on this interpretation.  To me it makes more sense to see this as being fulfilled when Christ returns and not when he rose from the dead and returned to heaven. 

Spock

[Spock]

On December 22, 2015 at 8:55 PM, WilliamL said:

 

The End Time apostasy of the Church has nothing to do with the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27, which was for Daniel's people (9:24, line 2), being the Jewish nation and priesthood. Daniel was given no prophecy about the Church in itself, which body was unknown to the Jews before Jesus established it.

When Jesus "brought in everlasting righteousness," he brought it in "for the Jew first." Therefore, this prophecy was fulfilled at the eternal sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross. Most of the Jews refused to believe in His sacrifice for their sins, but that in no way negated the efficacy of his bringing in everlasting righteousness for all of those who did.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first, and also for the Greek.

Daniel's 70th week was fulfilled in the first century AD, period. Nothing in this passage speaks about the End of the Age/Time of the End, the establishment of the kingdom, etc.: there is no End Time terminology in the passage whatsoever. If you want to accept what churchianity tells you is in there, that is your option. But truth is determined by what the scriptures say, not by what the crowd believes.

William, you know I am one of your bigger fans, and I deeply respect your knowledge and study in scripture, Greek, Hebrew, etc......

but

im not feeling this interpretation. I know it doesn't mean much, but I trust the HS is guiding me too as I seek to know truth. This interpretation of yours may be right for all I know, but "my gut" (not much to you and everyone else, except to me) says it is not.  I do not see Jesus at the cross as being the time he ushered in "eternal righteousness...."

Anyhow, I'm still open and reading...

spock

[Spock]

On December 22, 2015 at 9:24 PM, Serving said:

William,

I'm only speculating on HALF A WEEK !!!!

How is that ' way too much speculation' ???

Other words, I am speculating on like 1 % of the prophecy !!!

I'm doing the work myself and am trying to find the ending point of that last half a week .. It might need correcting yet .. if so, I gladly will because it is not about me, it's about the truth .. don't forget, I was answering a question by Last Daze and did say, I THINK I've finally cracked it .. please read between the lines because it hints that I am confident with my premise yet may still need tweaking .. and as it turns out, I only need to find the answer to ONE POINT before I will 'KNOW I've finally cracked it'.

I'd gladly accept help on finding the last trigger for the ending of the last half of that 'week'  coz I don't care who finds it, I only care that it is found so I too can rejoice at it's discovery !! (But I can not accept the answer lies 2000 years into the future)

And to be honest, I'd prefer someone else to find it coz it would save a lot of work for me and would mean I'd only have to test it instead of finding it.

Nevertheless, even though I could be wrong on the exact ending of the last week, you need to read Acts 19, 20 & 21 again because I just checked it and you are mistaken about what you said.

 

As for Christ's ministry, Luke chpt 3 reveals Jesus began His ministry at 30 years of age .. and 2000 odd years of history states that Christ died at 33 .. I always took it for granted and never saw a need to question it since nobody else has all this time .. except YOU of course : )

 

Hey Serving,

just to be sure, do you feel only the last 3.5 years is in the future, which coincides with much of Revelation's 42 months, 1260 days, times, times, and a half terminology?

or do you also believe the entire last week of Daniel has passed and has been fulfilled?

thanks,

spock

[Spock]

On December 22, 2015 at 0:31 AM, Serving said:

Hmmm .. It's possible and if so it would be a good signifier since he was the Senhedrins #1 poster boy till Christ called him.. We have to find out if that event took place 3 1/2 years after Christ's crucifixion?

If so, it very well could be .. but 3 1/2 years is our key.

And Daze .. I realized I WAS WRONG about the last half of the week because this occurred to me while my brain was exploding : "70 years are determined upon THY PEOPLE" .. so the event signifying the end of that week MUST be Israel centric and not of Paul going to the Gentiles as I prematurely first thought.

Tell you what .. I'll leave it with ya  

Look forward to the answer .. take your time .. LOL.

 

 

 

Yes, yes, yes.  This last week regards ISRAEL, NOT THE CHURCH!!!!!

this is one strong reason why I believe this last 3.5 years will occur after the true church is removed, a time of Jacobs troubles. God is not FINISHED with Israel yet. 

[Spock]

On December 22, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Last Daze said:

In the OP I stated as what I saw as two possibilities.  I thought you were approaching the final 3.5 years from a third, spiritual angle.  Gabriel did tell Daniel to "know and discern" and phrases like that usually mean there is more to it than meets the eye.  The new covenant certainly was confirmed to many after Pentecost but the balance of the last week, the remaining ~3.5 years, seems elusive to define regardless if "thy people" is a reference to natural or spiritual Israel.

That's why I tend to favor a future completion of the latter half of the 70th week.  Israel rejected Christ and and was broken off midway through the last week.  Their future 1260 days of protection and nourishment in the wilderness I see as the last half of the last week after which Christ returns.  When He returns, Israel is grafted back in and what Christ accomplished on the cross will be fully realized.  I also think that the 1260 days of the two witnesses coincides with Israel's 1260 days of protection and that they are involved in confirming the new covenant with Israel.  That seems to be the least problematic view according to how I understand prophecy.

Daze,

for a long time we were taught that the entire week is future, but like you pointed out, it is certainly possible that only 3.5 years is future. Even Revelation only talks about 3.5 years, and never mentions 7 years.

so, your interpretation certainly seems doable to me.  Clap clap

Again, I'm not even close to being convinced that the entire 7 years has been fulfilled. 

Spock

[Spock]

On January 3, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Montana Marv said:

Israel has not yet achieved the six tasks, benefits promised by the Prophecy of Dan 9:24 for them to do or receive.  This Prophecy is not about them not doing or receiving the six tasks, but doing and receiving.

The Prophecy says they have 70 Sevens of Week to accomplish or receive the benefits of them.   PERIOD

For Israel receives all these benefits at the Second Coming.  Zech 13:9b - I will say; 'They are my people." and they will say; "The Lord is our God". 

The six benefits are received by Israel and the Holy City.  Thus fulfilling the 70 Sevens.  Salvation is upon them.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Marv,

i don't think Serving is saying the 70th doesn't end upon the return of Christ.  He merely is saying the 70th week was divided, with a large gap in between. I don't see anything in scripture that says this can't be true. After all, a week is a week- 7 years. Who cares if it is divided?  In fact, there is a lot of wisdom in thinking when the Jews rejected Christ, that week stopped running......and won't begin ticking again until some future event.  With the Jews back in their land, it could recontinue soon, and of course will end at Christ's return. Again, don't forget, even Revelation only talks about 42 months, not 7 years. 

Spock