Creation and an Old Earth - One Possibility

[Guest shiloh357]

The whole point of the story of God's creative power, is to show that God is not indebted to any pre -existing material to make anything. This principle is also true of the Gospel, which declares righteousness where there is none.

If the truth be known, the false theories about creation injected into the Christian world, are designed by Satan to pry people off from God, to doubt and question His ability and willingness to recreate and save.

It is Satan's aim to get people to look at themselves for leverage to get to heaven, by telling us that the Christian walk is like evolution, getting better and better, and feeling like we are making progress. That mindset cannot be benefited by Christ, because the poor in spirit, not the progressing in spirit, will be saved. We are never to think that we are saved by progress and a general improvement based on our assessment of feelings. We are saved by the pure sacrifice of God in Christ, and that will always be sufficient. But to come into the wedding with one's own garment, and not wearing the free garment of righteousness by faith, is certain disappointment and loss.

And we are never to think that we have some merit by which to claim God's forgiveness. That is what is meant by 'pre -existing material' for God to use in salvation or in creation - there is no such thing with God, in salvation or creation.

When was in the beginning? was it 6000 years ago? Never.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." If this happened only 6000 years ago then God who is believed to be Immortal with no beginning and no end must also be 6000 years old as well. But all is not as fundamental Christianity teaches and believes. Why?

John 1:1, teaches, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." . . . and;

John 1:2, The same was in the beginning with God. Verse, 3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

The confusion lies in the fact that the Earth was re-created about 6000 years ago after being destroyed and left in darkness for an unknown length of time.

Scriptures clearly teach that God created all things, that is, the entire universe and all things therein, TO BE INHABITED. Where God lived before He created the universe is not mentioned in the Scriptures and therefore not worth persuing.

God says He created (THRONES, DOMINIONS, and PRINCIPALITIES). All were Created by Him to be inhabited.

Revelation 12:12, Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, (PLURAL) and ye that dwell in them (PLURAL). Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Colossians 1:16, For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: He has named every star; Psalm 147:4, He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names. (THRONES, DOMINIONS, PRINCIPALITIES. He created them all TO BE INHABITED).

Isaiah 45:18, For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited:

God even has an army which follows Him;

Revelation 19:14, And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Why would God have need of armies? Would it be to defend His creation of rebels or to put down rebellion?

There was no re-creation of the earth.  The earth is only 6,000 years old and that is the truth of Scripture.   You really have to stretch logic to make the earth older than that.   The gap theory as promoted by the godless heretic, Finis Dake has been disproven many times by Hebrew scholars who know the Bible far better than he did.   Satan has, unfortunately, been able to get a lot of mileage out of Dake and others like him who promote the gap theory.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

 

So how many centuries would it take for Adam to name every creature God created?

  Now remember, you have to include all the dinosaurs too.  What about fish?  Don't fish get names?  How about insects?

Actually if you would simply read the Genesis account, you would discover that it took a fraction of a day for Adam to name all the animals! God had endowed Adam with sufficient wisdom and capability to rapidly name all the animals (Gen 2:19,20), possibly instinctively.

19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

So could you name all the species and sub-species of animal life on this planet between the time you were created in a mature state and the time you sinned by not believing God?

[HAZARD]

A friend sent me this.

 

Gen 1:2 tells what happened to the earth AFTER it was created and before the re-creation account in Genesis!

The word hayah means:

to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out

1. (Qal)

   1. —

      1. to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass

      2. to come about, come to pass

   2. to come into being, become

      1. to arise, appear, come

      2. to become

         1. to become

         2. to become like

         3. to be instituted, be established

   3. to be

      1. to exist, be in existence

      2. to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time)

      3. to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality)

      4. to accompany, be with

 

 

The earth was created, then it came to pass it was void and without form.  

[HAZARD]

"shilo wrote, There was no re-creation of the earth.  The earth is only 6,000 years old and that is the truth of Scripture.   You really have to stretch logic to make the earth older than that.   The gap theory as promoted by the godless heretic, Finis Dake has been disproven many times by Hebrew scholars who know the Bible far better than he did.   Satan has, unfortunately, been able to get a lot of mileage out of Dake and others like him who promote the gap theory."

You throw accusations around like confetti. There were men in Jesus day who accused Him of doing miracles by the power of the devil, had you been alive then, you would have been one of them. Your mind is shut, your heart is frozen like a block of ice, you are a heretic hunter, nothing more, you make out you know it all, provide not one scripture and accuse people you know nothing about of being a godless heretic,and no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[Guest shiloh357]

A friend sent me this.

 

Gen 1:2 tells what happened to the earth AFTER it was created and before the re-creation account in Genesis!

The word hayah means:

to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out

1. (Qal)

   1. —

      1. to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass

      2. to come about, come to pass

   2. to come into being, become

      1. to arise, appear, come

      2. to become

         1. to become

         2. to become like

         3. to be instituted, be established

   3. to be

      1. to exist, be in existence

      2. to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time)

      3. to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality)

      4. to accompany, be with

 

 

The earth was created, then it came to pass it was void and without form.  

Here is what I would say to your friend.

Gen. 1:2 is an example of what we call a "vav" disjunctive.  A "vav' disjunctive occurs when  the word "and" (which is the letter "vav" in Hebrew) is followed by a noun.  Gen. 1:2 reads in Hebrew as "v' ha-eretz hayah tohu v'bohu..."   

Now, that's a real problem for the claim that the word "hayah" means, "become" or "came to be."    If the v' had been followed by a verb, then you could say that the hayah means, "become."   But that is not the case here.   "vav" is followed by a noun, which means that Gen. 1:2 is not connected to Gen. 1:1 which means that they are two separate lines of thought. It means that there is no place in Hebrew for the gap theory.  It means that Hebrew grammar will not allow for the gap theory.   The disjunctive (or disconnection)  means that hayah is correctly translated as "was"  in Gen. 1:2.  

[Guest shiloh357]

 

"shilo wrote, There was no re-creation of the earth.  The earth is only 6,000 years old and that is the truth of Scripture.   You really have to stretch logic to make the earth older than that.   The gap theory as promoted by the godless heretic, Finis Dake has been disproven many times by Hebrew scholars who know the Bible far better than he did.   Satan has, unfortunately, been able to get a lot of mileage out of Dake and others like him who promote the gap theory."

You throw accusations around like confetti. There were men in Jesus day who accused Him of doing miracles by the power of the devil, had you been alive then, you would have been one of them. Your mind is shut, your heart is frozen like a block of ice, you are a heretic hunter, nothing more, you make out you know it all, provide not one scripture and accuse people you know nothing about of being a godless heretic,and no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

No, I am the one calling out false teachers for what they are.  Dake was full of false teaching.   My mind is fixed on the truth of Scripture.  I know and read Hebrew and I know that Dake and all other gap theorists don't know Hebrew.  Those who do know why the gap theory is wrong.

The gap theory as put forth by Dake denies the redemptive nature of God.  That's why its a heresy.

[Ezra]

So how many centuries would it take for Adam to name every creature God created?

  Now remember, you have to include all the dinosaurs too.  What about fish?  Don't fish get names?  How about insects?

Actually if you would simply read the Genesis account, you would discover that it took a fraction of a day for Adam to name all the animals! God had endowed Adam with sufficient wisdom and capability to rapidly name all the animals (Gen 2:19,20), possibly instinctively.

19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

So could you name all the species and sub-species of animal life on this planet between the time you were created in a mature state and the time you sinned by not believing God?

Let's never forget that before the Fall, Adam was just "a little lower than the angels" (Psalm 8:5) and also "crowned with glory and honour".  For all we know, Adam could have named all the creatures within a couple of hours. So it does not matter what you and I could accomplish. But look at it this way. You type an entry into Google search and within a second it brings up over a million entries (or many more in some cases).  Do you think Adam's mental capabilities could have been equal to or superior to that?

[SavedOnebyGrace]

So how many centuries would it take for Adam to name every creature God created?

  Now remember, you have to include all the dinosaurs too.  What about fish?  Don't fish get names?  How about insects?

Actually if you would simply read the Genesis account, you would discover that it took a fraction of a day for Adam to name all the animals! God had endowed Adam with sufficient wisdom and capability to rapidly name all the animals (Gen 2:19,20), possibly instinctively.

19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

So could you name all the species and sub-species of animal life on this planet between the time you were created in a mature state and the time you sinned by not believing God?

Let's never forget that before the Fall, Adam was just "a little lower than the angels" (Psalm 8:5) and also "crowned with glory and honour".  For all we know, Adam could have named all the creatures within a couple of hours. So it does not matter what you and I could accomplish. But look at it this way. You type an entry into Google search and within a second it brings up over a million entries (or many more in some cases).  Do you think Adam's mental capabilities could have been equal to or superior to that?

I do not believe the prehistoric and current animal kingdoms could move that fast.  In any event, you are speculating beyond Holy Scripture what you cannot understand from scripture.  I'm in the same boat as you even though I believe in an OEC.  I still believe in the 6-24 hour days of restoration, as you believe in 6-24 hour days of original creation.  And furthermore, we both believe in a literal interpretation of Holy Scripture.  I believe we are both missing something here, but I'm not arguing just to be arguing.  I don't believe Adam was a computer like human, and there is no evidence that angels were either.  Just speaking the name would take some large amount of time unless you are advocating evolution.  What it is we are both missing is beyond my abilities to explain.  Maybe beast of the field does not mean the whole animal kingdom.  Just a thought.  I don't think we can resolve this with the scriptural information we now have.  That doesn't mean it's not true.  Am I making sense to you?

[Ezra]

I don't think we can resolve this with the scriptural information we now have.  That doesn't mean it's not true.  Am I making sense to you?

And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field;

This is pretty comprehensive, and could be paraphrased as "absolutely every creature". Cattle = all domestic animals, fowl of the air = every avian species created, and every beast of the field = every wild animal in existence. We are plainly told that "Adam gave names" to all of these creatures, and this is included in the account of the 6th day of creation (only 24 hours). "Evening and morning" limits each day to 24 hours. What more do you want?

[Kan]

 

I do not believe the prehistoric and current animal kingdoms could move that fast.  In any event, you are speculating beyond Holy Scripture what you cannot understand from scripture.  I'm in the same boat as you even though I believe in an OEC.  I still believe in the 6-24 hour days of restoration, as you believe in 6-24 hour days of original creation.  And furthermore, we both believe in a literal interpretation of Holy Scripture.  I believe we are both missing something here, but I'm not arguing just to be arguing.  I don't believe Adam was a computer like human, and there is no evidence that angels were either.  Just speaking the name would take some large amount of time unless you are advocating evolution.  What it is we are both missing is beyond my abilities to explain.  Maybe beast of the field does not mean the whole animal kingdom.  Just a thought.  I don't think we can resolve this with the scriptural information we now have.  That doesn't mean it's not true.  Am I making sense to you?

Your questions are reasonable, from our perspective and experience of what can be, but the Bible is just stating the truth, and so if it surpasses anything we know, we are challenged to accept it and investigate it. However, if we are inclined to study by faith rather than doubt, we will find out amazing things about the creation and the first humans. 

About naming the animals, it is not too mysterious, because God "brought" the animals to Adam. Notice that whatever he named them, was its name. So God already had a name for each animal, and Adam named them the same as God, it proved that he was made after the image of God.

Each animal was named after the impression it left on Adam's mind. When he looked at each animal, he noticed everything about it, and also sensed everything about it, from its demeanor, purpose and to its overall expression of love. The name he gave to each animal was a description of its essence as part of the whole creation. 

We could talk about Adam in detail, and find out some of the things he was capable of, but again it doesn't take any investigation to understand that, because by faith we know he was made like God. That says everything doesn't it?

To think that God will restore sinners to that original majestic state should be a great motive to praise God, to realize that what we go through on earth cannot be compared to the glory which will be revealed in us.