Read Scripture the way Luther did

[Qnts2]

On 11/30/2015, 4:35:02, Kan said:

You would have to prove that Luther was wrong about certain Jews he was dealing with at the time. I won't jump onto the train of politically correct fans, without further consideration. As for sources of info, sorry, I won't make that mistake again.

The paper Luther wrote did not apply to 'certain Jews', but rather Luther made a global statement about all Jews and how Luther felt they should be treated and viewed. He calls all Jews liars and scoundrels. He recommends that Christians should burn Jewish synagogues and kick Jewish people out of their countries. He accuses Jews of desiring to have God kill all Gentiles.

WARNING, the following quotes are disgusting and grossly anti-semitic. Some quotes from the booklet written by Luther entitled 'The Jews and their lies'.

Therefore be on your guard against the Jews, knowing that wherever they have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer self­glory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men are practiced most maliciously and veheming his eyes on them.

Moreover, they are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury. Thus they live from day to day, together with wife and child, by theft and robbery, as arch­thieves and robbers, in the most impenitent security.

I brief, dear princes and lords, those of you who have Jews under your rule­­ if my counsel does not please your, find better advice, so that you and we all can be rid of the unbearable, devilish burden of the Jews, lest we become guilty sharers before God in the lies, blasphemy, the defamation, and the curses which the mad Jews indulge in so freely

[Qnts2]

After quoting some of the horrid things Luther wrote, in order to be fair to Luther, I have Lutheran friends who have told me that Luther earlier complimented the Jewish people for their opposition to Catholicism. Also that Luther believed that if he shared with the Jewish people about Jesus, they would accept Jesus, but was very upset that the Jewish people did not convert as he thought they would. This angered Luther and resulted in his writing against the Jewish people. 

I do not know if Luthers paper against the Jews was a reaction because Luther failed to convert the Jewish people. Either way, if a Christian shares the gospel with people, and they do not accept Jesus, turning to such hateful speach or writing is definitely not the correct response. In missionary circles, it is well known that the Jewish people are resistant to the gospel at this time, and scripture tells us that the Jewish people are blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles come in. But, that blindness is only in part which means many Jewish people are not blinded. Today, Jewish people are coming to the Lord.

I have also heard from Lutherans that later in life, after Luther's booklet against the Jewish people, he wrote a line in his last sermon.

Quote from the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod 'We join Luther who in his last sermon said of the proper Christian attitude toward the Jewish people, " We want to treat them in Christian love and pray for them..."   The LCMS supports sharing the gospel with the Jewish people in love, and opposes and renounces Luthers booklet against the Jewish people. The same with other Lutheran groups.

[Kan]

1 hour ago, Qnts2 said:

The paper Luther wrote did not apply to 'certain Jews', but rather Luther made a global statement about all Jews and how Luther felt they should be treated and viewed. He calls all Jews liars and scoundrels. He recommends that Christians should burn Jewish synagogues and kick Jewish people out of their countries. He accuses Jews of desiring to have God kill all Gentiles.

WARNING, the following quotes are disgusting and grossly anti-semitic. Some quotes from the booklet written by Luther entitled 'The Jews and their lies'.

Therefore be on your guard against the Jews, knowing that wherever they have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer self­glory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men are practiced most maliciously and veheming his eyes on them.

Moreover, they are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury. Thus they live from day to day, together with wife and child, by theft and robbery, as arch­thieves and robbers, in the most impenitent security.

I brief, dear princes and lords, those of you who have Jews under your rule­­ if my counsel does not please your, find better advice, so that you and we all can be rid of the unbearable, devilish burden of the Jews, lest we become guilty sharers before God in the lies, blasphemy, the defamation, and the curses which the mad Jews indulge in so freely

Apparently these are the only references to the Jews in his book that are a denunciation of them.

In the context he is writing of them as a religion and not individuals, and what he says about the religion is true, they are conceited and controlled by Satan because of their unbelief in Christ. To say that these religiously strong Jews are basically OK and that they at that time should have tolerated them, is the same as saying that good living Islamic people should be welcomed into all our countries. The religion, like that of the unbelieving Jews, is fundamentally detached from Christian principles of living, so it can only head in one direction - to ruin society.

The issue here is not about community acceptance, but you will note that the remarks were aimed and addressed to the authorities of the country warning them of the influence that such a religion can have on the country and its freedoms. Make no mistake here.

Remember the true Jews had been persecuted throughout the dark ages and were almost wiped out. The glut of Jews who were thriving in the dark ages were the most wicked generation that had ever existed of the Jews, they were even favored by the Papacy, what does that tell you?

Our modern banking systems and the world bank were founded by these Jews and their specific families. Large world corporations which control nearly all major world industries are of the same roots.

The Bible says that the love of money is the root of all evil. The world's evil can be traced down to these founders and their families.

Luther was right on the mark. His comments are not directed at a discussion about Christian acceptance of all nationalities, but the political influence of a false religion on a free society, which by the way took the suffering and blood of so many martyrs to win. 

People who balk at these comments have absolutely no idea how difficult it was for the world to come out of the terrible oppression of the great Antichrist, and how Satan had reign over the earth through it. And the same ignorant people are responsible for allowing the same oppression to rise again in the names of - acceptance and one world.

 

[MorningGlory]

10 minutes ago, Kan said:

Apparently these are the only references to the Jews in his book that are a denunciation of them.

In the context he is writing of them as a religion and not individuals, and what he says about the religion is true, they are conceited and controlled by Satan because of their unbelief in Christ. To say that these religiously strong Jews are basically OK and that they at that time should have tolerated them, is the same as saying that good living Islamic people should be welcomed into all our countries. The religion, like that of the unbelieving Jews, is fundamentally detached from Christian principles of living, so it can only head in one direction - to ruin society.

The issue here is not about community acceptance, but you will note that the remarks were aimed and addressed to the authorities of the country warning them of the influence that such a religion can have on the country and its freedoms. Make no mistake here.

Remember the true Jews had been persecuted throughout the dark ages and were almost wiped out. The glut of Jews who were thriving in the dark ages were the most wicked generation that had ever existed of the Jews, they were even favored by the Papacy, what does that tell you?

Our modern banking systems and the world bank were founded by these Jews and their specific families. Large world corporations which control nearly all major world industries are of the same roots.

The Bible says that the love of money is the root of all evil. The world's evil can be traced down to these founders and their families.

Luther was right on the mark. His comments are not directed at a discussion about Christian acceptance of all nationalities, but the political influence of a false religion on a free society, which by the way took the suffering and blood of so many martyrs to win. 

People who balk at these comments have absolutely no idea how difficult it was for the world to come out of the terrible oppression of the great Antichrist, and how Satan had reign over the earth through it. And the same ignorant people are responsible for allowing the same oppression to rise again in the names of - acceptance and one world.

 

The way I read it, Luther was friendly to the Jews until they refused to join his fight against the Vatican.  He then did a complete 180 and urged persecution of them.   He was not writing about some Jews, but ALL Jews.  He was an evil, despicable man.

[Kan]

3 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

The way I read it, Luther was friendly to the Jews until they refused to join his fight against the Vatican.  He then did a complete 180 and urged persecution of them.   He was not writing about some Jews, but ALL Jews.  He was an evil, despicable man.

That idea has been put across by people who commented on his writings, but there is no contradiction between longing for the salvation of the Jews who do not accept the Messiah, and warning the authorities of the impact of their religion on the freedoms of a country. I am a descendant such a wealthy Jewish line of ancestors, they are not only wealthy, but were influential in setting up the financial systems of countries like Cuba - which is a communist system. That's oppression.

[siegi91]

28 minutes ago, Kan said:

That idea has been put across by people who commented on his writings, but there is no contradiction between longing for the salvation of the Jews who do not accept the Messiah, and warning the authorities of the impact of their religion on the freedoms of a country. I am a descendant such a wealthy Jewish line of ancestors, they are not only wealthy, but were influential in setting up the financial systems of countries like Cuba - which is a communist system. That's oppression.

Does that justify, in any possible way, a sentence like ""We are at fault for not slaying them."", as it is written in his book?

 

Edited December 5, 2015 by siegi91

[MorningGlory]

33 minutes ago, Kan said:

That idea has been put across by people who commented on his writings, but there is no contradiction between longing for the salvation of the Jews who do not accept the Messiah, and warning the authorities of the impact of their religion on the freedoms of a country. I am a descendant such a wealthy Jewish line of ancestors, they are not only wealthy, but were influential in setting up the financial systems of countries like Cuba - which is a communist system. That's oppression.

I read NO 'longing' for Jews' salvation in Luther's book; only the desire to see them wiped out.  I'm not sure if you are even reading the same book, Kan.

[Kan]

4 hours ago, siegi91 said:

Does that justify, in any possible way, a sentence like ""We are at fault for not slaying them."", as it is written in his book?

 

I would need at least a paragraph of context, to be able to comment.

[Kan]

5 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

I read NO 'longing' for Jews' salvation in Luther's book; only the desire to see them wiped out.  I'm not sure if you are even reading the same book, Kan.

I was talking about the other comments posted, which indicate what seems like an attitude change in Luther, in comparing other writings.

It would not surprise me if Luther became aware of something within the Jewish culture which was dead set against the gospel. 

One of the prime benefits that Protestantism bought was a fairer marketing system which would cater for the poor. Many communities were suffering extreme hunger in Europe while the fat cats who opposed the gospel had no conscience about usury. Luther coming from a poor family would have felt revulsion at these injustices.

In my ancestry, there are two types of Jews among them, the sincere loving ones who became missionaries for Christ whom they accepted as the Messiah, and another class which were from families initiated into secret societies under Satanic influence. These societies are directly linked to the Papacy to this day, the source of Satanic oppression on the nations. This wealthy class have a philanthropic exterior, but are pernicious and cruel.

Anyone who chooses Christ in these situations is alienated from the family, and looked upon as not even worthy to exist. This is what I believe Luther saw. 

My family history was largely infused by German heritage, many of whom were Lutherans, which as far as I am concerned was a total benefit. I think without that influence, I could not have come to the light. The influence of secret societies and their curse on their descendants was so strong that I grew up with some of their ideologies, and pagan tendencies, including a natural inclination to pick up on esoteric knowledge.

It was only until I listened to an evangelist, that everything was exposed about secret societies, the Illuminati and the connections between Kabbalah and the Papacy etc. I once thought that I had inherited from the barbarians, but it became plain that Paganism was carried on in the world through secret societies and no longer the under basic influence of the barbarians.

[Qnts2]

22 minutes ago, Kan said:

I was talking about the other comments posted, which indicate what seems like an attitude change in Luther, in comparing other writings.

It would not surprise me if Luther became aware of something within the Jewish culture which was dead set against the gospel. 

One of the prime benefits that Protestantism bought was a fairer marketing system which would cater for the poor. Many communities were suffering extreme hunger in Europe while the fat cats who opposed the gospel had no conscience about usury. Luther coming from a poor family would have felt revulsion at these injustices.

In my ancestry, there are two types of Jews among them, the sincere loving ones who became missionaries for Christ whom they accepted as the Messiah, and another class which were from families initiated into secret societies under Satanic influence. These societies are directly linked to the Papacy to this day, the source of Satanic oppression on the nations. This wealthy class have a philanthropic exterior, but are pernicious and cruel.

Anyone who chooses Christ in these situations is alienated from the family, and looked upon as not even worthy to exist. This is what I believe Luther saw. 

My family history was largely infused by German heritage, many of whom were Lutherans, which as far as I am concerned was a total benefit. I think without that influence, I could not have come to the light. The influence of secret societies and their curse on their descendants was so strong that I grew up with some of their ideologies, and pagan tendencies, including a natural inclination to pick up on esoteric knowledge.

It was only until I listened to an evangelist, that everything was exposed about secret societies, the Illuminati and the connections between Kabbalah and the Papacy etc. I once thought that I had inherited paganism from the Norwegians, but it became plain that Paganism was carried on in the world through secret societies and no longer the under basic influence of the barbarians.

I think you have been listening to too many anti-semitic stories which are proven false.

1. Did the Jewish people engage in usury? No. In European countries, many had laws against the Jewish people owning land. With no land, the available occupations for the Jewish people was extremely limited. This is why many Jewish people engaged in occupations which could be conducted without ownership of any land. Many become tailors, jewelers, etc. In some Catholic countries where they taught that Christians could not lend money and charge any interest, no Christians would lend money. So the governments, to help people enter into businesses or buy land, forced the Jewish people to lend money to Christians, and the Jewish people were allowed to receive interest. This caused all kinds of issues for the Jewish people as they were viewed as the bad evil money hungry, without thought that the governments forced Jewish people into that occupation. When the economy turned bad, which economies do, the governments would then blame the Jewish people for causing the economic problems, causing the people to come against the Jewish people, killing some, while others were driven out of the country.

2. In you statement, only Jewish people who accepted Jesus were sincere and loving while all other Jewish people were involved in satanic secret societies. Absolutely false.

3. Most Jewish people are not involved in 'secret societies', and most do not follow the kabbalah. All false and anti-semitic conspiracy theories.