Ezra Posted December 11, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.34 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 2 hours ago, OldSchool2 said: And again, this "theology" didn't come from Francis, who has been a scape-goat on these forums before.r do I hear an objection to that? The buck stops with the Pope. He is not a scapegoat, but the leader of false doctrine and false practice influencing millions. If a document emanates from the Vatican, it is on his authority. So at the very least stick with the facts. And please read carefully what I quoted and think about it. It is a clearly a heretical position since no sinner can be saved outside of Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 1 hour ago, OldSchool2 said: How was the pagan Cyrus "saved" before he re-established Jerusalem after God stirred his spirit (2 Chron. 36:22-23)? That has nothing to do with salvation. God used Cyrus to do his will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coheir Posted December 11, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,458 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 729 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1950 Share Posted December 11, 2015 16 hours ago, Ezra said: http://www.timesofisrael.com/catholic-theologians-say-jews-can-be-saved-without-converting/ After preaching another Gospel for centuries, the Vatican has decided that it should preach "no Gospel to Jews". Hi Ezra, sorry I did not make my thoughts clear in my first post. I would like to try again and get your perspective. In OT times The Jews lived under the law but could only get to heaven by faith ( in the God they knew ) Heb 11:17 like Abraham had. Now as I said in my first post I do believe any and all living today must have faith and believe in Jesus John 14:7. am I misunderstanding the basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 1 hour ago, OldSchool2 said: And Romans 11 is not "the Roman cult". Romans 11 was written before the Roman cult came into existence. Romans 11 is an appeal to the church regarding their role in the salvation of the Jews. Try actually reading the Bible before you quote from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchool2 Posted December 11, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 701 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,511 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,759 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1955 Share Posted December 11, 2015 57 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Romans 11 was written before the Roman cult came into existence. Romans 11 is an appeal to the church regarding their role in the salvation of the Jews. Try actually reading the Bible before you quote from it. If you had bothered to read Romans 11, you would have seen that the roles are reciprocal. "... Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all" (v.30-32). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchool2 Posted December 11, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 701 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,511 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,759 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1955 Share Posted December 11, 2015 1 hour ago, shiloh357 said: That has nothing to do with salvation. God used Cyrus to do his will. Re-establishing Jerusalem will have a great deal to do with everyone's salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchool2 Posted December 11, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 701 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,511 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,759 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1955 Share Posted December 11, 2015 2 hours ago, Ezra said: The buck stops with the Pope.... .... yes, but that doesn't mean you can attribute the words of his clerics to him. That's what I meant by scape goating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thallasa Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 5 hours ago, Ezra said: There is a huge difference between "they have a part in salvation" (which means that they will be saved) and "they have a part to play in our salvation" (which is essentially meaningless). You missed reading this (perhaps did not read the articles): The report also said that while it is only thanks to Christ’s death and resurrection that all people have the chance of salvation, Jews can benefit from this without believing in him. The authors appear to acknowledge that they are effectively squaring a theological circle, however, since how Jews can be saved while not believing in Christ “remains an unfathomable mystery in the salvific plan of God.” I agree ,and it's a mystery to me . Very perplexing what is happening ,but then it is all predicted . It is like swimming around in a a foggy sea, listening to Pope Francis . Very worrying for many in the R.C.C., whose minds are clear on salvation . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 6 minutes ago, OldSchool2 said: If you had bothered to read Romans 11, you would have seen that the roles are reciprocal. "... Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all" (v.30-32). 4 minutes ago, OldSchool2 said: Re-establishing Jerusalem will have a great deal to do with everyone's salvation. The sovereignty of God in using the Jews at one time to bring about his will is not the same thing as saying that they play a role in our salvation. The Jews do not in any way play a role in our salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 3 minutes ago, OldSchool2 said: .... yes, but that doesn't mean you can attribute the words of his clerics to him. That's what I meant by scape goating. It's not scapegoating. He is the head of the Vatican and they would not put out something like that without his approval. The Vatican claims that Jews don't need to convert to be saved and that is only more proof why the Vatican and it's Pope are not really biblical Christians. They have religion, but they are not genuine followers of Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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