gdemoss Posted February 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted February 20, 2016 17 hours ago, BlindSeeker said: I do appreciate your openness and honesty. I too have been at a similar place where I had to place all my beliefs safely on the altar of the God I did/do truly believed in... and that because everything I had been taught and believed didn't work as I clearly saw scripture stated it should in the life of a believer. Over the years, however, I also discovered that part of my problem was a heart that wasn't wholeheartedly seeking and loving the God I knew. I'm not sharing that as a subtle accusation, honoring your openness with a like honest and open reply as well. One of my favourite verses (I have sooo many, lol) is this one in II Peter II Peter 1:2 - Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord. When Peter says, “Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God,” what many fail to understand from the English transliteration is that the Greek word which was translated “knowledge” is not a noun, but actually more of a verb. In the original Greek the word implies “recognition, i.e. (by implication) full discernment, acknowledgement: (ac-knowledge-ing).” Note the context below in which the same Greek word was used, but translated differently in Paul’s epistle to the Colossians. Colossians 2:2 - That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, even of the Father and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Thus Peter and Paul agree that true faith will remain in action by it faithfully (i.e., loving obedience) acknowledging God in all things. That is actually how Young’s Literal Translation renders it - II Peter 1:2 - Grace to you, and peace be multiplied in the acknowledgement of God and of Jesus our Lord! We all know that a person can walk into a room and have knowledge of another in the room and yet still fail to acknowledge them. Similarly, so can we discern the difference between receiving the grace of God in vain and thus having a vain religious faith, and that of correctly recieving grace's empowering in our loving obedience with true faith. True faith not only has and therefore grows in its "knowledge" of God, it "acknowledges" God and His will and is compelled into action because of one’s love and gratitude to Him. The subtle exhortation then being that we need continue to acknowledge God through our faith with loving obedience or we run the risk of falling into a stagnant faith (vain believism) that merely professes a belief in a particular so-called “Christian” theology but lacks an intimate knowledge of God and our Savior Jesus Christ. James 1:21 - Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. 22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. James 2:17 - Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works... 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. It is only when *faith is truly alive through the correct responsive action of love that God’s grace and peace can be “multiplied” in our lives. For if “by grace ye are saved,” it is through active faith that we are saved to the uttermost. Not by the works of faith we do, but by our active faith allowing the grace of God to gather us unto Himself through the “sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience, and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ.” James 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Be not deceived, if a man knows to do good and does it not, it is both a sin and grievance to the Holy Spirit of God. So keep your honesty pure and continue in love and gratitude to abide in His love and He will multiply His grace and peace in your life. “Awake thou that sleepest, arise from the dead, Christ shall give thee light. Awake to righteousness and sin not. For some [of you] have not the [intimate] knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.” (Eph. 6:14, I Cor. 15:34) Thank you. For knowledge of God is intimate where I am in God and God is in me. I have known the depths of Sin. I wish to forsake Sin and pursue intimate knowledge of God. I know I have received Gods Grace for I have it to give. Again, Thank you brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted February 21, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 21 hours ago, thereselittleflower said: If this happened, this is different than the Incarnation. There was no procreating in the Incarnation. therese, I was not speaking of Jesus, but what the angels (sons of God) did with man in the beginning. And the word "Incarnation". This word is not in the bible. I don't like this term when referring to the Word being made flesh. It's a heathen term as coming back as something/someone else after death isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted February 21, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, Sister said: therese, I was not speaking of Jesus, but what the angels (sons of God) did with man in the beginning. And the word "Incarnation". This word is not in the bible. I don't like this term when referring to the Word being made flesh. It's a heathen term as coming back as something/someone else after death isn't it? How is it a heathen term? No it does not mean coming back as something/someone else. that's RE-incarnation. Not incarnation. If we don't have a correct way to describe what happened, there are those who could come away from reading the scripture thinking God procreated, had relations with Mary, which would be a blasphemous thing to even consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted February 21, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 Gee you're quick! The hindu's use this term, so do the bodist. They believe that if your good in this life, you die and come back as something good, and if your bad, you come back as someone lowly or an instect because your being punished or rewarded for your previous life. I've never liked the association with this term when referring to Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted February 21, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, Sister said: therese, I was not speaking of Jesus, but what the angels (sons of God) did with man in the beginning. And the word "Incarnation". This word is not in the bible. I don't like this term when referring to the Word being made flesh. It's a heathen term as coming back as something/someone else after death isn't it? The word 'incarnation' means birth. REINCARNATION means a second birth as in the pagan idea of coming back in the 'next life' as something else or someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted February 21, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2016 12 minutes ago, Sister said: Gee you're quick! The hindu's use this term, so do the bodist. They believe that if your good in this life, you die and come back as something good, and if your bad, you come back as someone lowly or an instect because your being punished or rewarded for your previous life. I've never liked the association with this term when referring to Christ. They don't use "incarnation by itself" like that. They use REincarnation. They are similar but different. As MG said above - incarnation refers to birth not re-birth. Incarnation specifically means: Incarnation literally means embodied in flesh or taking on flesh It refers to the conception and birth of a sentient being who is the material manifestation of an entity, god or force whose original nature is immaterial. In its religious context the word is used to mean the descent from Heaven of a god, or divine being in human/animal form on Earth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnation Since it is a word, it is used in all religions. That does not mean it is not the best word to use of God becoming man in the flesh. To say we can't use the word Incarnation because other religions use it to describe their deity coming down in a human body, would mean we can't use the word "born" and say God-made-man, Jesus, was born of Mary simply because another religion says their god-made-man (ie Mithra) was born of someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted February 21, 2016 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2016 On Thursday, February 18, 2016 at 2:29 AM, thereselittleflower said: So you're promoting astrology now?! Genesis 1:14 "And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" and it was so." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted February 21, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, n2thelight said: Genesis 1:14 "And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" and it was so." I don't see how that really answers my question. You said Quote Could not agree more,just like the entire word of God is written in the stars,however man has corrupted that as well... That's quite different than signs, seasons days and years. Are you promoting astrology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted February 21, 2016 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said: I don't see how that really answers my question. You said That's quite different than signs, seasons days and years. Are you promoting astrology? Call it what you want The Witness of the Stars" - E. W. Bullinger http://levendwater.org/books/witness/the... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted February 21, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, n2thelight said: Call it what you want The Witness of the Stars" - E. W. Bullinger http://levendwater.org/books/witness/the... So you are promoting astrology. Seminal background material for today’s GIS theory comes from Frances Rolleston’s (1781–1864) extensive research, during the early-to-mid-nineteenth century, into the ancient names of the signs of the zodiac and numerous stars. Rolleston elucidated their pagan meanings in various cultures and then proposed gospel-meanings for these signs and stars through an impressive and systematic biblical exegesis surrounding hundreds of verses. In 1862, this encyclopedic work eventually became the four-part book, Mazzaroth, or the Constellations.1 By the late nineteenth century, two ministers, one in the United States and the other in the United Kingdom, almost concurrently released books that quarried extensively from Rolleston, popularizing her theory and eventually overshadowing it. The first of these, The Gospel in the Stars; or, Primeval Astronomy2 (1882), was written by Joseph A. Seiss (1823–1904), a prolific theological author, eloquent orator, and Lutheran minister in Virginia, Maryland, and Pennsylvania. In the United Kingdom in 1893, E. W. Bullinger (1837–1913), an Anglican minister, theological author, and creator of the massive Companion Bible, published the second of these works, The Witness of the Stars.3 Bullinger met Rolleston, who lived in Keswick, and remained in correspondence with her. He said that she was the first to create an interest in the subject. In recent years, a number of parachurch organizations and prominent Christians, including Dr. D. James Kennedy, Kenneth C. Fleming, Marilyn Hickey, Chuck Missler, Henry Morris, and the Southwest Bible Church radio program, have promoted GIS theory in books and sermons. This has steadily raised grassroots Christian interest in the theory, as can be seen by the many Web sites that now promote it and the GIS cassette tape sets now being circulated. Some enterprising folks in North Carolina even hold an annual “Mid-Atlantic Star Party” every year for amateur astronomers and stargazers, which includes a “biblically based” GIS astronomy program. Reprints of The Gospel in the Stars and The Witness of the Stars are published in our day by Kregal, and contemporary advocates of GIS theory, although they add their own interpretive nuances, generally follow Bullinger and Seiss when replacing astrological and mythological meanings with ideas and stories of the Christian religion. Kennedy, in The Real Meaning of the Zodiac, includes Daniel 5:27 (“You have been weighed on the scales…”) in his interpretation of the sign Libra, which astrologically is “the scales.”5 He includes Psalm 21:12 (“drawn bow”) and Psalm 45:5 (“sharp arrows”) for the sign Sagittarius, which mythologically is the “the archer.”6 Hickey, in her Signs in the Heavens, includes Leviticus 10:16 (“the goat of the sin offering”) for Capricorn, which astrologically is “the goat,”7 and Psalm 92:10 (“a wild ox”) for Taurus, “the bull.”8 Fleming, in God’s Voice in the Stars, includes Revelation 5:5 (“The Lion of the tribe of Judah…hath prevailed”) in his interpretation of the sign Leo, which astrologically is “the lion.”9 The astrological meaning of the constellation Gemini, which includes myths about the twins Castor and Pollux and the messenger of the gods, Mercury, is given the Christian images of Jesus Christ as “Judge and Ruler” (Kennedy)10 or “Prince and Savior” (Fleming).11 To replace the myths associated with Demeter, Persephone, and Astrae (goddess of innocence and purity), the constellation Virgo is superimposed with stories about the virgin Mary, the desired Son, the despised sin offering, and “the coming One” (Kennedy)12 or “the coming Shepherd” (Fleming).13Using Psalm 91:13, Seiss “redeems” the Scorpio myth from its astrological meanings (involving Mars and Juno) by giving it the biblical identity of the Genesis serpent and the story of the battle between Christ and Satan.14 This is but the tip of a vast iceberg of Christian religious ideas substituted for pagan myths to bolster GIS theory. Seiss himself admits that exegesis like this “may sound strange.”15 A related issue is the missing link of ancient Hebrew scholarship. True, we have many writings that reveal that ancient Israel occasionally turned astrologically to the stars for guidance and divination, even though Moses had warned them not to do so (Deut. 18:9–13). But that is not under discussion here. If the Hebrew patriarchs were carrying on generationally a tradition from Adam of reading the stars for a prophecy about a Messiah-Redeemer to come, ancient Hebrew literature would have confirmed this practice. Dr. Edward Goldman, Professor of Rabbinics at Hebrew Union College Cincinnati, however, doesn’t buy it: Although there were, in Rabbinic literature, a few scholarly references now and then to astrological symbols, these were probably taken over from the Hellenistic world that surrounded them, and Rabbinic Judaism pays very little account to such things as astrological symbolism. The Rabbis indicate that spending your time with such things is really a waste of time. Even in the Midrash and in the mystical traditions, one finds no understanding of the stars and constellations as you have represented it to me.32 We have not even discussed the implications of this reliance on pagan authorities, which can become quite authoritative indeed. For instance, astrologers use Aries as the starting point of the zodiac and they end with Pisces, but the mythology behind this astrological entry and exit point for history is wrong for supporting GIS theory. So GIS advocates begin and end their interpretation where the mythology is more supportive of GIS theory; that is, with Virgo and Leo. Why? Incredibly, appealing to pagan sources of authority,33 GIS advocates use the Sphinx because it is a figure with the head of a woman (Virgo, the virgin) and the body of a lion (Leo)! Ah, well. Perhaps this is the kind of mischief one eventually gets into when trying to get round the cherubim’s flaming sword in Eden. http://www.equip.org/article/is-there-a-christian-zodiac-a-gospel-in-the-stars/ I happen to know something about astrology. I at one time got pretty deep into it when I was younger, before God got a hold of me. I can tell you this. Astrology is something you want to stay far, far away from in whatever form it takes. Including Bullinger's and the GIS crowd's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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