Last Daze Posted February 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 14 hours ago, WilliamL said: 1) No verse says that God's Wrath is "finished at the Seventh Trumpet." It only says the Wrath came, an aorist/timeless verb. These are translated as simple past tense, but not in the perfect, that is, completed/fulfilled. The exact same verb is found in 6:17 -- "For the great Day of His Wrath came, and who is able to stand." -- which means that it had begun at this point, but without any termination point of that Wrath being stated. Likewise in 11:18, in that no termination is implied here either. -------------------------------------------------------- In the passage of 11:15 -- “The kingdom(s) of the world became the Kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ..." -- became is another of those aorist verbs, meaning the Lord's Kingdom on earth has been established at this point, but not completed/fulfilled. It will not be, because there will still be rebellion against the Kingdom during the Bowls, until the Beast is finally vanquished at the Seventh Bowl = Armageddon. At the seventh trumpet the first six plagues, two of which are woes, have been completed. The seventh trumpet begins the last woe with more wrath, and the return of Christ to earth, to follow. Aorist verbs work just fine. When the seventh plague is finished (seventh bowl) then God's wrath is complete. It comes later in the same day that the seventh trumpet sounds. Compare the seventh trumpet and bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted February 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 10 hours ago, Ezra said: The references to Christ taking His kingdom and ruling, and to the Mystery of God being finished, are predictions of what is to come at the end of all the 7th seal judgements. So how are we to take the 7th Trumpet portion of Scripture? A "prediction"? Nothing in the text suggests that. But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets. Revelation 10:7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted February 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 10 hours ago, Ezra said: So how are we to take the 7th Trumpet portion of Scripture? Factually, literally, and chronologically, as below: 1. Satan and his evil angels are cast down to earth (ch 12) 2. The Beast (the Antichrist) takes control of the earth (ch 13) 3. The 144,000 are taken up to Heaven (ch 14) 4. Those with the Mark of the Beast are judged (ch 14) 5. Armageddon is predicted (ch 14) 6. The seven vials (bowls) of the wrath of God are poured out (ch 15,16) 7. Mystery Babylon is judged and destroyed (ch 17) 8. Babylon "that mighty city" is destroyed (ch 18) 9. The Marriage of the Lamb is accomplished (ch 19) 10. The Battle of Armageddon is accomplished (ch 19). Like I said earlier. They provide additional detail to what's transpiring in chapters 6-11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted February 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 15 minutes ago, Montana Marv said: Last Daze You just proved a Post Trib Rapture cannot exist. Woe, Woe, Woe to those who dwell on the earth. It is what is within the 7th Trumpet which is the third Woe. The 7 Bowls all reside within the 7th Trumpet. As the 7 Trumpets all reside within the 7th Seal. In Christ Montana Marv This is not about the rapture. Please stay on topic. Please post scripture to support the notion of the seven bowls residing within the seventh trumpet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted February 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,136 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2016 Last Daze And also; Rev 8:2 - And I saw seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven Trumpets. v. 6 - Then the seven angels who had the seven Trumpets prepared to sound them. Am I missing something? Rev 15:1 - I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign, seven angels with the seven last plagues; last because with them Gods wrath is completed. 16:1 - Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, Go pour out the sevens bowls of God's wrath on the earth. Again, am I missing something here. I see no tie to the angels with the seven Trumpets. Now with the 6th Trumpet the army of horsemen from the East is released (China) to kill 1/3 of mankind. One must consider how long it will take them to travel the 1700 miles to the Euphrates River from China and in the process to kill 1/3 of mankind. And then there is another issue. How long will it take them to travel the 700 miles from the Euphrates River which is now dried up (6th Bowl) to Armageddon. So your rapid fire pouring out of the Bowls is not feasible. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted February 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.34 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2016 39 minutes ago, Last Daze said: A "prediction"? Nothing in the text suggests that. But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets. Revelation 10:7 For God events are accomplished long before they actually occur. The key is "in the days (plural)" which means a period of time. Also only chapters 6 and 7 can be placed within that time frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted February 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Montana Marv said: Now with the 6th Trumpet the army of horsemen from the East is released (China) to kill 1/3 of mankind. One must consider how long it will take them to travel the 1700 miles to the Euphrates River from China and in the process to kill 1/3 of mankind. And then there is another issue. How long will it take them to travel the 700 miles from the Euphrates River which is now dried up (6th Bowl) to Armageddon. So your rapid fire pouring out of the Bowls is not feasible. You assume the 6th trumpet is a reference to a human army. I see the events that transpire during the sixth plague as: 6th trumpet - horsemen released to afflict with plagues death of the two witnesses (the effects of the first 6 plagues subside) 6th bowl - armies gather together for Armageddon Edited February 12, 2016 by Last Daze Clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted February 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Ezra said: For God events are accomplished long before they actually occur. The key is "in the days (plural)" which means a period of time. Also only chapters 6 and 7 can be placed within that time frame. Notice that "in those days" refers to the period of time which is when he "is about to sound". Nothing even hints at those days being a period of time subsequent to the seventh trumpet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted February 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 2 hours ago, Montana Marv said: And also; Rev 8:2 - And I saw seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven Trumpets. v. 6 - Then the seven angels who had the seven Trumpets prepared to sound them. Am I missing something? Rev 15:1 - I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign, seven angels with the seven last plagues; last because with them Gods wrath is completed. 16:1 - Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, Go pour out the sevens bowls of God's wrath on the earth. Again, am I missing something here. I see no tie to the angels with the seven Trumpets. If you're trying to understand where I'm coming from, think of God's judgment / wrath as being the seven plagues. Then think of the trumpets and bowls as "bookends" of the plagues; a beginning and ending. If you read Revelation 15 with that perspective in mind, it makes a lot of sense. Otherwise, what are the seven plagues that the seven plague angels have when they were given the bowls? Are you introducing seven new plagues? Or are you saying that the trumpets aren't plagues? We only hear of seven plagues. I see no reason why the seven angels who were given the seven trumpets in Rev 8:2 can't be the same angels who were given seven bowls in Rev 15:7. Even the symbolism suggests that trumpets and bowls begin and end the seven plagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezekiel Posted February 19, 2016 Group: Seeker Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 315 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/25/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/31/1959 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I would think the seventh bowl will be earths last day. Just some things to think about. Maybe the grass has grown back before the locust or maybe not in this order of something else. They are in perfect harmony in this order below. The Sun will get hotter and hotter. The vials are a result of this. If you go from sixth bowl backwards to the first bowl you will see this. Sixth Bowl, Sixth Trumpet, Sixth Seal Fifth Bowl, Fifth Trumpet, Fifth Seal Forth Bowl, Forth Trumpet, Forth Seal Now it will go on like this, til then at the end you will have the Seventh Bowl, Seventh Trumpet, Seventh Seal and in the end a prayer in all Heaven will take place the Seventh Seal. Christ rules in Heaven and is his Kingdom. Christ is on trial, His say's if this was my Kingdom I call on a army of Angels and they will fight but My Kingdom is not of this world. Precept on Precept. You will be amazed if studied in this manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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