SINNERSAVED Posted March 25, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 23 minutes ago, 7thseal said: Thanks for your patience, I figured these verses would be what you're considering. Before we go further regarding dates, I'd like to ask you a few simple questions. Did the old testament believers die in Christ? If yes, then when did they receive Holy Spirit? If no, then when do they receive their glorified bodies? that is great questions, and as per the scriptures that I understand to answer these question,s Did the old testament Christians die in Christ ? if Christ was not until the N<T then they Died following the Word of God and the prophets, now when Jesus was raised from the dead, it says that grave were open and so I believe they did, for what was in God the father and the old, was also in Jesus , and so Jesus hears there voice, and they are raised, now I will not claim to know this answer but what we read in scripture, I gave the above statement, and now it is said if anyone dies in Christ since His resurrection that when you die you go to Him, from your last breath , is the first moment with God ? I don't know for that is really beyond all of us, and we cannot speculate on beyond our life, ? the holy spirit was given to man when the day of Pentecost from what I understand, for jesus was lifted to the father ,so He could send the helper and comforter and the spirit , and that it testifies of Him, now the O.T people seek God and followed as they could, I believe that there hearts and minds were in the right place and they were also able to capture Gods heart and be saved prior to the son of God, as did Enoch and noah, and Abraham and others , they like Daniel were lead by the same God, but we do not know if it was by angels or spirit so that is a question all of it self.but they were Godly men, and the women like sarah , mary etc, Godly women, as far as glorified bodies, I would not know that , but we are to be changed from mortal to immortal, in a twinkling of a eye, and so to be with God forever, that I would not know, but it is coming, we are told in scripture, I hope this helps , and wanted to be honest by the scriptures , and not guess, for many of these things are still mysteries to us, for we cannot comprehend the glory or the splendor of the Lord God almighty , for He has created and given us a way , a bridge to the father, our high priest = bridge, so we are now back in fellowship God, through the spirit that dwells with in us,, our earthly temples, peace and blessings to you ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thseal Posted March 25, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 825 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 186 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2016 9 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said: that is great questions, and as per the scriptures that I understand to answer these question,s Did the old testament Christians die in Christ ? if Christ was not until the N<T then they Died following the Word of God and the prophets, now when Jesus was raised from the dead, it says that grave were open and so I believe they did, for what was in God the father and the old, was also in Jesus , and so Jesus hears there voice, and they are raised, Now we we have two separate raises of the dead in Christ. According to the first (old testament believers) went back to their homes and gave witness of what happened....? Hmm old testament homes lasted longer than I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SINNERSAVED Posted March 25, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 5 minutes ago, 7thseal said: Now we we have two separate raises of the dead in Christ. According to the first (old testament believers) went back to their homes and gave witness of what happened....? Hmm old testament homes lasted longer than I thought. for it is in the bibkle and cannot be dismissed that the graves were open, at that time, so what would be a reasonable answer then Jesus has freed them, for He alone has broken the power of Sin and Death, so possibilities. I do not know ,but what is in scripture and if anyone says they do know, it would be a lie ? so could these people be called to God and be freed to go to heaven , ? I don't think they would stay on earth ? this is a situation, of what are we seeing here ? is it a resurrection, was it first fruits ? what can it be, I have a topic on the graves were open, please look back I already posted. and I think we should revisit it, thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thseal Posted March 25, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 825 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 186 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2016 19 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said: for it is in the bibkle and cannot be dismissed that the graves were open, at that time, so what would be a reasonable answer then Jesus has freed them, for He alone has broken the power of Sin and Death, so possibilities. There's no doubt that graves were opened and dead raised during Christ being raised from the dead. But Scripture says they returned to their homes to give testament. That's not possible for all the old testament believers at the time. My question is were those that were raised, raised in their glorified bodies? Christ raised others from the dead when alive but not in their glorified bodies.... they had to die again. What exactly did Christ mean when He said the first shall be last and the last shall be first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SINNERSAVED Posted March 25, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 27 minutes ago, 7thseal said: There's no doubt that graves were opened and dead raised during Christ being raised from the dead. But Scripture says they returned to their homes to give testament. That's not possible for all the old testament believers at the time. My question is were those that were raised, raised in their glorified bodies? Christ raised others from the dead when alive but not in their glorified bodies.... they had to die again. What exactly did Christ mean when He said the first shall be last and the last shall be first? okay , yes we can agree that they raised and was seen, of what bodies or spirit , I can not answer that nor would any one be able to say , that is truth , now the scripture you ask that what did Christ mean when He said the first will be last and the last shall be first okay , according to what I believe and understand , Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel yes, so they were first , and then to provoke them for there rejection and dis obedience to God , He came to the Gentiles and so until the Gentiles are come in, so I believe He is talking about the gathering of the elect, for the gentiles will be raised prior to the remnant of the original branches this would make a lot of sense, if I am wrong, I am open for a different view, thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted March 25, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,119 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted March 25, 2016 12 hours ago, 7thseal said: There's no doubt that graves were opened and dead raised during Christ being raised from the dead. But Scripture says they returned to their homes to give testament. That's not possible for all the old testament believers at the time. My question is were those that were raised, raised in their glorified bodies? Christ raised others from the dead when alive but not in their glorified bodies.... they had to die again. What exactly did Christ mean when He said the first shall be last and the last shall be first? Matt. 27:52 ...the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were awakened; 53 and coming out of their graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many. Nothing here about "returning to their homes to give testament." By this time Jesus had preached the Gospel in prison/Hades (1 Peter 3:19), obtained the keys of Hades and Death (Rev. 1:18), and the Hades could no longer "prevail against it [the Church]." (Matt. 16:18) Therefore, there is no good reason to believe that these saints did not arise in resurrection bodies like Jesus had. There is no good reason to believe that some of these "many" who arose in the vicinity of Jerusalem were not OT saints who were ready and able to receive the Gospel and have their sins cleansed, and thereby be able to escape the prison of Hades, which could no longer prevail against them. Others undoubtedly arose far from the area of Jerusalem. Some of the most holy of these OT saints are most likely among the 24 human elders on their thrones in heaven mentioned in Rev. 4-5. Regarding the first shall be last, and the last first, this refers, at least in part, to the Hebrew peoples, most of whom were blinded to the Gospel at the Lord's first coming, thereby allowing Gentiles to enter the Kingdom of Heaven before them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SINNERSAVED Posted March 25, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 1 hour ago, WilliamL said: Matt. 27:52 ...the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were awakened; 53 and coming out of their graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many. Nothing here about "returning to their homes to give testament." By this time Jesus had preached the Gospel in prison/Hades (1 Peter 3:19), obtained the keys of Hades and Death (Rev. 1:18), and the Hades could no longer "prevail against it [the Church]." (Matt. 16:18) Therefore, there is no good reason to believe that these saints did not arise in resurrection bodies like Jesus had. There is no good reason to believe that some of these "many" who arose in the vicinity of Jerusalem were not OT saints who were ready and able to receive the Gospel and have their sins cleansed, and thereby be able to escape the prison of Hades, which could no longer prevail against them. Others undoubtedly arose far from the area of Jerusalem. Some of the most holy of these OT saints are most likely among the 24 human elders on their thrones in heaven mentioned in Rev. 4-5. Regarding the first shall be last, and the last first, this refers, at least in part, to the Hebrew peoples, most of whom were blinded to the Gospel at the Lord's first coming, thereby allowing Gentiles to enter the Kingdom of Heaven before them. thank you I believe you see the same understanding of that scripture, it would make a lot of sense for sure . now can we not say that the dead in Christ has already been called, by the scripture the graves are opened, and next it will be us that are alive ? what do you say there William, it could be ? it fulfills the first call of the dead in Christ in this verse, is it or would you think it is not ful filled ? just asking brother , peace,, and blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted March 25, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2016 Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, One thing we can be sure of is that it does not say that they were RESURRECTED. Now compare the wording to this; Mark 2:11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. This verse uses the wording "rise", but is speaking of the resurrection to clarify, so it is clear, and that the resurrection is at "the last day". Martha knew this. John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted March 25, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,119 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted March 25, 2016 5 hours ago, Sister said: Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, One thing we can be sure of is that it does not say that they were RESURRECTED. The same Greek verb root egiero, meaning to awake from sleep or death -- "many bodies of the saints which slept were awakened." -- is also biblically used many times for the resurrection of Jesus. It is also noteworthy that "the graves (or tombs, perhaps both) were opened..." The only man Jesus raised out of the grave was Lazarus, and he only after men first opened up the tomb for him. John 11:41 In contrast, an angel rolled away the stone of Jesus' tomb. How were the graves/tombs of these many dead opened, if not supernaturally? Again, this points to the same type of awakening/rising as Jesus had. 5 hours ago, Sister said: John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Yes, there is a resurrection/rising at the last day, but that does not preclude an earlier one at the time when Jesus was resurrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted March 26, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 26, 2016 William Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, The apostles, our foundations were still alive. Would it make more sense that the apostles would be the first to enter the resurrection of the saints, before these ones? The apostles are the real firstfruits, a type of first-fruit. There were twelve with Jesus, but others like Paul after Jesus. Paul, not one of the twelve wrote most of the New testament. When John was taken in the spirit and saw the throne of God in heaven, he only saw 24 elders there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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