3 1/2 or 7 Year Tribulation?

[rollinTHUNDER]

Some are teaching a 3 1/2 year tribulation, but as you can see, it simply does not line up with the following scriptures.

Matthew 24:1-3 - "And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Daniel 9:26 - "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

It was the people (Roman armies) of the prince that came in 70 A.D., not the prince himself or Messiah who destroyed the temple.

Also, neither Messiah or Titus made a seven year covenant, so this prophecy was only partially fulfilled, as the temple was destroyed but the end of the age or world was still far off. And not only are we still waiting for the second coming, but we also know that a man is still to come in his own name that Israel will receive and trust for their peace (John 5:43).

Luke 19:42-44 - "Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,

44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

John 5:43, KJV, - " I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."

Jeremiah 30:7, KJV, - "Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it."

Here's the 1st half of 7 year tribulation/ and 3rd Temple

Revelation 11:1-7 - " And there was given me (John) a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

(2) But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

(3) And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

(4) These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

(5) And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

(6) These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

(7) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit (2nd Beast) shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Very interesting! We see there will be a temple and also the two witnesses in the first 42 months, 1260 days, when the (1st beast) that rises out of the sea will be given authority. Then we see the two witnesses are killed by the (2nd beast) that rises from the earth (Rev.13:11-12).

Then here is the middle of trib, which is the beginning of the second half of the tribulation and the end of the age:

Daniel 11:31-35 - " And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate."

This is where the Jews in Judea flee to the mountains and 144,000 are sealed and divinely protected, which is the remnant that will be saved until Christ returns with His Church. Meanwhile, Gentiles will trample Holy City for 42 months (Armeggedon), then the sun will go out and the moon will turn blood red. (notice this abomination is (singular), which is the one that Jesus was pointing to in Matt. 24: / not abominations (plural) as in Dan. 9:27) (also notice that it was NOT Messiah that put a stop to the daily sacrifice)

(32) "And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he (Not Messiah) corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

(33) And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

(34) Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

(35) And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed."

(People that know their God and do great exploits = 144,000 divinely protected Jews)

Matthew 24:15-16 - "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

(16)Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:" (The remnant to be saved)

Daniel 12:7-13 - "And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

(8) And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

(9) And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

(10) Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

(11) And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

(12) Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

(13) But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days."

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings RT,

You are still misinterpreting the scriptures. Here is the "Covenant" that is made in the NT:

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament (COVENANT), which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament (COVENANT), that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

As for the "temple", the physical temple (GR hieron) will remain desolate until the "consummation" of the Daniel 9 covenant, which is the salvation of the Jews when they are brought into the New Covenant.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The "temple" you mention in Rev 11, is the "temple" (naos - Holy 0f Holies) which is in heaven.

Sorry, you have been totally brainwashed.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest danrusdad]

Unfortunately, not a SINGLE verse you quoted calls Daniel's 70th week "the Tribulation period". This is a man-made term imposed on scripture and NOT derived from it. The ONLY specific time period that we are given that uses the term "tribulation" is when Jesus spoke of the "Great Tribulation" in the Olivet discourse. And scripture is clear that this time period does not begin until AFTER the Abomination of Desolation, which we know starts at the midpoint of the 70th week, and extends for an unknown length of time into the second half of the 70th week (Jesus said that time period would be cut short, i.e it won't last a full 3.5 years). So rather than asking, "Is the tribulation 3.5 or 7 years?", a better question would be, "Does scripture call ANY time period 'the tribulation'?" Answer: NO!

[rollinTHUNDER]

Greetings RT,

You are still misinterpreting the scriptures. Here is the "Covenant" that is made in the NT:

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament (COVENANT), which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament (COVENANT), that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

As for the "temple", the physical temple (GR hieron) will remain desolate until the "consummation" of the Daniel 9 covenant, which is the salvation of the Jews when they are brought into the New Covenant.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The "temple" you mention in Rev 11, is the "temple" (naos - Holy 0f Holies) which is in heaven.

Sorry, you have been totally brainwashed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

DE,

You've been on this wild goose chase long enough. It's a dead end. There's no denying that Christ made an everlasting covenant, but these scriptures in Daniel are talking about a covenant for one week, obviously the 70th week, since Messiah was cut off after 69. Even a third grader can figure that 7 + 62 = 69

Dan. 9:26 - "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

Now notice that 'desolations' is also (plural), which means more than one.

Dan. 9:27 - "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Jesus prophesied that Israel would reject him, and that they would receive someone else who would come in his own name. And this is precisely when the 70th week will begin. Also, it wasn't Christ that caused the daily sacrifices to cease in the middle of the week. In fact, they went on for almost 40 additional years. When the one who comes in his own name comes, He will allow Israel to resume with the daily sacrifices, but now they are an abomination in God's sight. Remember, Jesus said he came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. So when Israel tries to go back to the old practrice of the daily sacrifice, this will be the overspreading of abominations in God's sight, and the son of perdition will break his covenant in the middle of the week and will magnify himself above all gods. Then the temple will remain desolate until the end. This is when those in Judea will flee to the mountains.

Isaiah 61:4 - "And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations."

DE, You may be a legend in your own mind, so I'll just ignore your brainwashing insult. I enjoy discussing these issues, but can you leave out the immature remarks and name calling? If not, I'll just ignore your two cents in the future.

[Old Timer]

I always get a kick out of DE's posts. After flinging around one or more insults he always signs off with "Blessings." You got to love this guy.

[rollinTHUNDER]

I always get a kick out of DE's posts. After flinging around one or more insults he always signs off with "Blessings." You got to love this guy. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, it's like spitting in someone's face, and then telling him, "God loves ya".

I guess the only difference is, I don't get the kick out of it that you do.

[Keith]

There are 7 years of Tribulation. It begins when the antichrist signs the 7 year peace treaty with Israel, a short time after the rapture. He breaks the treaty only 3 1/2 years into it. The following 3 1/2 years are referred to as the Great Tribulation. This is followed by the Second Coming of Christ.

(Yes, I'm a "pre-tribber.")

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Pre-tribs,

I continue to rebut this ridiculous notion of a pre-trib rapture, because I was once there and have come to realize the fallacy of it. I feel very sorry for you because you have bought into a lie and you add to and take away from the scriptures in order to justify your paradigm.

I do ask that God bless you, particularly with understanding, but most of all that He love you and reveal to you the truth of the matter.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Trinity]

ehhem...

Greetings Post Tribs

I have no problem with Post tribers, If you believe it you believe it its not going to stop you from being raptured. I believe the bible pacifically says we do not no the time, so, we make biblical guesses. We don't know 100% forsure untill the day we get raptured, I believe the Pretrib rapture almost 100% but i can be wrong as Post tribers can be too.

I do ask that God bless you, particularly with understanding

Thank you, as of every christian should be doing for each-other. Thank you for keeping me in prayer, as will i for you.

God bless,

Trinity

[rollinTHUNDER]

Greetings Pre-tribs,

I continue to rebut this ridiculous notion of a pre-trib rapture, because I was once there and have come to realize the fallacy of it. I feel very sorry for you because you have bought into a lie and you add to and take away from the scriptures in order to justify your paradigm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you trying to avoid post #4? Or just trying to change the subject?

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with a pre-trib rapture. In fact, it has nothing to do with the rapture whatsoever. There's no need to feel sorry for anyone because you believe they have bought into a lie. Especially when you are one that is twisting and bending the scriptures himself, in an attempt to make them fit what you believe. But like I always say, God is not bound by what we believe, no matter how strongly we may believe it.

When you have the correct theory, everyone will know it, because all of the pieces will fit like a glove. There won't be any need of twisting or bending or feeling sorry for those who don't believe what you do. But until that time, there are no experts in this field, no, not even the Great Dad Ernie.