Understanding the Final One Seven

[Last Daze]

8 hours ago, ghtan said:

Hi LD, I don't understand what you are trying to get at. Do you mean you think the covenant is broken at the end, and not the midst, of the seven years? Do you see this as fulfilled in AD70 or is it an end day prophecy? (I read it as MM does but I think it refers to AD70.)

What I'm saying is that I don't see that the covenant is ever broken.  It is confirmed for the full seven years.  I acknowledge that the prophecy of the seventieth week is a bit of a puzzle.  My recent thoughts on it are in this post.

[Serving]

3 hours ago, Last Daze said:

What I'm saying is that I don't see that the covenant is ever broken.  It is confirmed for the full seven years.  I acknowledge that the prophecy of the seventieth week is a bit of a puzzle.  My recent thoughts on it are in this post.

CORRECT.

If One confirms the covenant for the whole week but is cut off (killed) in the midst of that same week, then WHAT is that telling us?

It is telling us that the One who was cut off (killed) somehow CAME BACK.

And WHO does scripture declare was cut off yet CAME BACK?

Why, Christ Himself of course.

HE confirmed the covenant .. HIS covenant.

Regards,

Serving.

[Serving]

4 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

this is how I read it my self,  , I have been thinking about this for a while but no one has come to say it yet,

it be great to get another few comments on this to help with affirming this position thank you great observation,

Feel secure in this understanding brother, it is after all, the only one that fits scripture.

Regards,

Serving.

[Serving]

Daniel 9:27

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: Q: WHO was Christ confirming His covenant to for that week before that covenant was sent out to the Gentiles? Why Israel of course.

and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, Q: WHOSE temple was RENT in TWO where NATIONAL SIN was atoned for through SACRIFICE and OBLATION ?, even RENT from the Holy of Holies? Why ISRAEL'S was .. HELLO !!!!!!!!!!!! .. and WHEN did this occur? Why, at the point of Christ's physical DEATH on the cross .. never heard of the LAMB OF GOD even ?????? Lamb / FINAL SACRIFICE opposed to their continuing sacrifices which were made NULL AND VOID, meaning TO CEASE (to cease being ACCEPTED by God Himself) 

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, Q: WHOSE HOUSE was left unto THEM DESOLATE from the very Mouth of Christ Himself? Why, ISRAEL'S of course .. And what did Christ say of their handling of the Old Covenant? That they CORRUPTED IT and replaced it with their OWN traditions etc .. to corrupt something is to make it ABOMINABLE .. and to make it DESOLATE means it is NO LONGER VALID, and since it is no longer valid, then this is WHY He was CONFIRMING this other COVENANT for that week .. because HIS SACRIFICE was about to make the Old Covenant DESOLATE (null & void, obsolete, spiritually DEAD) 

even until the consummation, Q: DESOLATE even unto the CONSUMMATION .. WHEN is the CONSUMMATION? Why it is at the 2nd Coming of course, Israel will REMAIN .. see that?  REMAIN .. REMAIN .. REMAIN from the MOMENT (past tense) they were made desolate .. REMAIN spiritually DESOLATE until Christ's return since it was THEIR covenant He made DESOLATE, meaning no longer VALID, no longer valid because Christ's doctrine has come into effect.

and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Q: and WHAT is DETERMINED? Why, the coming WRATH of God of course.

So simple.

[Serving]

7 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

that was excellent brother nice of you to break it down, blessings to you , for that great observation of the word, thank you

If you can see this too, and accept it, then let us thank God instead because only He reveals and only He makes men SEE, we ourselves can only testify ..

Regards,

Serving.

[Esther4:14]

It is impossible that the final week concerns Christ even though there may seem to be a connection.  Daniel 9:26 says there are 62 weeks until the Messiah is cut off and have nothing and the temple will be destroyed.  Then, it says there will be war and desolation's until the final week suggesting that there is no way to know how long is between the time the Messiah is cut off and the final week.  

Or, in other words, no one knows the day or hour the final week will begin according to Daniel 9:26-27.  Therefore, no one know when the Son of Man will come either (Matthew 24:36).  

So, whenever the final week begins, the covenant may exist for the full seven years, but it will be meaningless to one who made it.  The one who confirmed did not follow through.  It is broken because he didn't keep his word not because the decree is stopped or reversed.  It will be because, he becomes reckless in his pride, he will declare himself as God by stepping outside of it.  

Now, we could being seeing this represented in our electoral process right now.  My guess is the week will be the time frame of a term for someone who is elected.  Therefore, I do think it is possible that the signs and wonders pertain in some way to a campaign.  Remember "change we need" kept Obama in office for 8 years.  

I think we can sometimes forget or take for granted how miraculous our technologies are today.  But, a sign or wonder could easily be in the form of a gadget or app.  There was even a ted talk I watched about different uses for silk.  Silk is strong and compatible with the body.  It can dissolve without having to be removed for a new wave of suturing or implanting devices that can be powered by the body so the device never needs to be removed like pacemakers still do need to be removed every few years to replace a battery.  What other functions could these devices replace outside of the miracle of maintaining sinus rhythm of pacemakers today.  

There is even developed of software that will allow you to wear a headset and operate your computer with your mind.  The stuff really exists and there are people on YouTube doing tutorials with this.  

So, I don't personally believe this direction will change or that we will revert to a showdown like Moses have with the Egyptians magicians.  

Nevertheless, thus week has not taken place yet.  

[ghtan]

12 hours ago, Last Daze said:

What I'm saying is that I don't see that the covenant is ever broken.  It is confirmed for the full seven years.  I acknowledge that the prophecy of the seventieth week is a bit of a puzzle.  My recent thoughts on it are in this post.

OK, understand what you are saying now though I think he who confirms the covenant more naturally refers back at the ruler of v 26 since the latter does the same sort of destructive things as described later in v 27. 

[Serving]

It is DURING the final week that the sacrifice & oblation was made DESOLATE .. WHO out of all the families of the earth practiced sacrifice & oblation in their temple (notice temple as in SINGULAR) and not is just any temple?

ISRAELITES of course .. so this is about the temple where sacrifice & oblation took place by ISRAELITES .. and sacrifice & oblation was of the OLD COVENANT.

BUT .. Christ's new covenant ALREADY made sacrifice & oblation DESOLATE 2000 odd years ago in the midst of that very same week by the shedding of His blood.

CAN something that is ALREADY made DESOLATE by God by the CONFIRMING of His New Covenant with the shedding of the blood of the Lamb, then be made DESOLATE once more as though it were NOT made DESOLATE in the first place ????

SEE the contradiction?

And just because the Israelites may reintroduce sacrifice & oblation at the completion of the 3rd temple, does THEIR rebuilding of the temple, THEIR rebuilding of the temple and NOT by decree of God to rebuild their temple somehow undo the DESOLATION that God has ALREADY placed that old covenant under some 2000 0dd years ago as though their very act of reintroducing such practices somehow overrides God's disannulling of said covenant?

Of course not .. see?

However you look at it, this week in no way can be future because it just contradicts itself and makes no real world sense .. neither does it make metaphorical sense either, it just makes NO sense at all if it were future because it is not future, it is already fulfilled.

 

[Montana Marv]

7 hours ago, Serving said:

It is DURING the final week that the sacrifice & oblation was made DESOLATE .. WHO out of all the families of the earth practiced sacrifice & oblation in their temple (notice temple as in SINGULAR) and not is just any temple?

ISRAELITES of course .. so this is about the temple where sacrifice & oblation took place by ISRAELITES .. and sacrifice & oblation was of the OLD COVENANT.

BUT .. Christ's new covenant ALREADY made sacrifice & oblation DESOLATE 2000 odd years ago in the midst of that very same week by the shedding of His blood.

CAN something that is ALREADY made DESOLATE by God by the CONFIRMING of His New Covenant with the shedding of the blood of the Lamb, then be made DESOLATE once more as though it were NOT made DESOLATE in the first place ????

SEE the contradiction?

And just because the Israelites may reintroduce sacrifice & oblation at the completion of the 3rd temple, does THEIR rebuilding of the temple, THEIR rebuilding of the temple and NOT by decree of God to rebuild their temple somehow undo the DESOLATION that God has ALREADY placed that old covenant under some 2000 0dd years ago as though their very act of reintroducing such practices somehow overrides God's disannulling of said covenant?

Of course not .. see?

However you look at it, this week in no way can be future because it just contradicts itself and makes no real world sense .. neither does it make metaphorical sense either, it just makes NO sense at all if it were future because it is not future, it is already fulfilled.

 

Serving

According to Matt 24:15 - Who then Fled Jerusalem at Christs Death.  His Disciples were told to stay.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Daniel23]

I have read through all these comments and there is obviously an inherent problem with the entire current Daniel translation of the "sevens" (or shavui'ym in Daniel 9:24-26 and shavua in 9:27) as "weeks of years".. It doesn't work. It doesn't work for the "seven sevens" and the "sixty two sevens"... And it doesn't work for the last seven. There is only one decree to rebuild Jerusalem in the bible and it is the decree of Cyrus. The reason that people keep trying to convince us that it had to be Artaxerxes is because that is the only way the math works. The problem with this is, even if we were to accept that Artaxerxes made a decree that was not explicit in the word of God, it would make the prophecies in Isaiah 44:28 and 45:1-13 false. 

So if the first 69 "sevens" aren't solved why would the last be any different. 

I wrote a post a few days ago explaining an entirely different interpretation of Daniel, that shows that the shavui'ym, which was a word unique to Daniel 9, was not "weeks of years", but rather periods with 7's... And these 3 separate "sevens" are each different units of times... With the last 7 being a literal week. On my post I show that this calculation leads from the decree of Cyrus to the exact day of the beginning of the last seven (Jesus' last week) on Wed. April 14th, 34AD. In the middle of that week he kicks the merchants out of the temple, causing the sacrifice and offerings to cease and tells the Pharisees to destroy the temple and he will rebuild it in three days (speaking of His body). This whole series of events is how he causes the abomination that leads to the desolation... (He knows that they are going to kill Him after that). 

The problem is with a lot of the arguments that I see on this subject is that they are all based on the same broken premise that the "shavui'ym" are weeks of years... If that was the true interpretation of these verses, then it would lead from Cyrus to Jesus... Since it doesn't, it cannot be true.

Stay Blessed!

Daniel