The anti-Christ, Jew or Gentile?

[douggg]

Marilyn, the Antichrist does not claim to have achieved God-hood when he is in that stage of being the Antichrist.   To be the Antichrist, the person has to be the King of Israel, instead of Jesus the rightful king.

It is not until near the (self brought about) end of his time as the King of Israel, that he becomes magnified in his heart that he has achieved God-hood.    It is then that he commits the transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8 and 2thessalonians2:4, revealing himself to be the man of sin.

 

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4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

He doesn't think he is the only god, but that he is greater than the rest.   Which is why in Daniel 11:36, as the beast, no longer the Antichrist ...

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And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

and...

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37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

 

So who are the other gods, he is above?  Fallen angels perhaps or them who take his mark; it doesn't say for sure.    And the god of forces he honors?     imo, the god of forces that he honors is Satan.

But he doesn't regard the God of his fathers - a saying reflective of the God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob.   The person will be a Jew.

Edited May 17, 2016 by douggg

[Guest]

So, you really think that the Jews will accept a non-Jew as their Messiah? I don't think so.

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, n2thelight said:

satan is the anti christ

 

 

Hi n2thelight,

So your thought is based on what scriptures?

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, RobertS said:

According to Revelation 13, Satan is a separate individual from the Antichrist. It becomes Satan's "unholy trinity" of The Dragon (Satan), The Antichrist and The False Prophet.

Hi RobertS,

Good comment, & I agree. scripture is quite clear - the unholy Trinity.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, Ezra said:

As you probably know (1) many Jews were taken to Assyria and (2) many Jews lived in Assyria from centuries. So simply because the Antichrist is called an Assyrian does not mean he must be a Gentile.  The more critical issue is how could a Gentile possibly enter into the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem and proclaim that he is Yahweh Elohim unless he was a renegade and blasphemous Jew in reality?  How could a Gentile possibly claim to be the true Messiah of the Orthodox Jews?  BTW, since Assyria is now in the annals of history, we need to look elsewhere.

Hi Ezra,

Assyian, is a nationality. There are still Assyrian people today & one even came on this forum. The famous tennis player Andre Agassi is an Assyrian.

As to how could a Gentile possibly enter into a Jewish Temple.... by man`s only answer – armed force.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

14 hours ago, douggg said:

Messiah = Christ = King of Israel.

Messiah = Christ from John 4:

Christ = KIng of Israel from Mark 15:

Now to 1John2:18, antichrist singular shall come, they were already aware.

John was "likening" some to the coming antichrist by calling them antichrists.    Why?  

Now where was John getting that notion?    We go to all places the gospel of John.    John 5.

Now here in the same chapter, which John in 1John2:22-23, gave the characteristics of antichrist from, we find out how they were already aware that antichrist singular shall come.

So everything said about the coming antichrist, and that to deny Father and Son, is antichrist - is coming from John Chapter 5.

I gave the verses above at the start of this post of how Messiah = Christ = King of Israel.      Of course those persons John likened to the singular coming antichrist, by calling them as antichrists as well because they denieth Father and Son - were most likely not Jews.     But the antichrist the Jews will receive - the another in John 5:43 as their King Messiah, King of Israel, he has to be a Jew, because that is what is in the old testament, which the person must be descended from King David,  as a Jew.... which Jesus was, but the Jews rejected him as being their King Messiah, King of Israel... and will embrace another, the forthcoming Antichrist.

(Isaiah 11:1-9; Jeremiah 23:5-6, 30:9, 33:14-16; Ezekiel 34:23, 37:24 ; Hosea 3:5)

Hi dougg,

You have laid out some scriptures there, & I agree that the Jews will only accept a descendent from David as their Messiah. However the anti-Christ does not come as the Messiah to Israel but as the Global Leader of the world.

`And all the world marvelled & followed the beast.` (Rev. 13: 3)

The Jews want peace & are willing to give land for it & eventually they will accept this leader who makes a peace covenant with them.

Does any scripture say that the Jews accept the anti-Christ as their Messiah?

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, n2thelight said:

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 & 7-9

 

(2 Th 2:3-4) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; {4} Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God

(2 Th 2:7-9) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. {8} And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: {9} Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Within the context of these verses , we will have a clear understanding of who the Antichrist is. Verse 3 is closely linked with another passage of Scripture which opens up the identity of Antichrist. Incidentally, this passage is used as a proof text that there will be a physical Antichrist on this earth. Yet, this passage nowhere uses the description for the man of sin as Antichrist. Since God uses this moniker in other areas of the New Testament, it would seem appropriate that God would use the title of Antichrist here also.

Do we have a problem? No, we do not! The passage that 2 Thess. 2:3 is linked to is Isaiah 14:12-17. We will focus on only 3 verses but you read the entire passage to gain the understanding of this group of verses.

(Isa 14:12, 16-17) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! {16} They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; {17} That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Did you notice the vital link in these verses to 2 Thess. 2:3? In verse 16, Lucifer, a.k.a., Satan is called "the man." Now we know that Satan is an angel not a physical human being. (The NIV omits "Lucifer" in verse 12 and calls him the morningstar which is the name for Christ in Revelation 2:28 and 22:16.. Isn’t it heresy to equate Christ with Satan? The Mormons do this.)

Here God refers to Satan as the man which caused havoc on the earth. It is interesting to note that in Luke 4:18, the Lord Jesus Christ speaks of preaching deliverance to the captives. Isaiah 14:17 speaks of Satan not opening his house of the prisoners. The whole complicated doctrine need not be complicated.

Let us transfer the title "The Man" to 2 Thess. 2:3 and see if we are on the right track. There we read about the "Man of Sin" which is Satan himself. We saw the passage in Isaiah speaking directly about and to Satan and we see this passage speaking directly about Satan, as the man of sin. The man of sin is not a human being, for what human being can wage the war Satan has been waging against Christ from the time of creation, right in the Garden of Eden.

 

http://www.scionofzion.com/antichrist.htm

Hi n2thelight, `The beast was captured & with him the false prophet .....these two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone..... Then I saw an angel....he laid hold of....Satan, & bound him for a thousand years; & he cast him into the bottomless pit, & shut him up,....` (Rev. 19: 20 & 21,   20: 1 – 3) Beast (A/C) & false prophet -> lake of fire. Satan -> bottomless pit. Quite clear as Robert said – the unholy Trinity.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, douggg said:

Marilyn, the Antichrist does not claim to have achieved God-hood when he is in that stage of being the Antichrist.   To be the Antichrist, the person has to be the King of Israel, instead of Jesus the rightful king.

It is not until near the (self brought about) end of his time as the King of Israel, that he becomes magnified in his heart that he has achieved God-hood.    It is then that he commits the transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8 and 2thessalonians2:4, revealing himself to be the man of sin.

 

He doesn't think he is the only god, but that he is greater than the rest.   Which is why in Daniel 11:36, as the beast, no longer the Antichrist ...

and...

So who are the other gods, he is above?  Fallen angels perhaps or them who take his mark; it doesn't say for sure.    And the god of forces he honors?     imo, the god of forces that he honors is Satan.

But he doesn't regard the God of his fathers - a saying reflective of the God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob.   The person will be a Jew.

Hi douggg,

You said -

`To be the Antichrist, the person has to be the King of Israel, instead of Jesus the rightful king. `

Where does it say that the last World Ruler has to be King of Israel? The anti-Christ, just means someone who is against (anti) Christ.

You call him the King of Israel but he is a Gentile as are all the other world rulers that God has shown in the Great Image. This is symbolic of the `times of the Gentiles` ruling the world.

Note: `The gods of his fathers` can be any religion. (Dan. 11: 37)

 

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

14 hours ago, Rick_Parker said:

So, you really think that the Jews will accept a non-Jew as their Messiah? I don't think so.

Hi Rick,

You are right. Of course the Jews will not accept a non-Jew as their Messiah. But where does it say in God`s word that Israel accepts this world leader as their Messiah? 

Marilyn.

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Ezra,

Assyian, is a nationality. There are still Assyrian people today & one even came on this forum. The famous tennis player Andre Agassi is an Assyrian.

So what?  That does not mean that a Jew cannot have the nationality of an Assyrian.  In fact the Assyrian empire was peopled with thousands of Jews, and their descendants are probably walking around today in Iraq or anywhere else in the world.

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

As to how could a Gentile possibly enter into a Jewish Temple.... by man`s only answer – armed force.

Except that would not fulfil the plan to present the Antichrist as the *true* Jewish Messiah.  The Orthodox Jews are eagerly waiting for their Messiah, and he will not used armed force but guile and flattery.  That too is in prophecy.  He will deceive the Jews (and the world) with his dazzling signs and wonders (and that too is in Scripture).

As to "where does it say that Israel accepts this world leader as their Messiah", well first of all he will be the Jewish Messiah (calling himself Yahweh Elohim), and only then will he be the world leader.  He will establish himself in Jerusalem, then within the Temple at Jerusalem, and finally as the world ruler.  The world will worship his image which is within that Temple, thus making him the world leader and god.