The Jewishness of the Olivet Discourse

[Retrobyter]

16 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

The Olivet Discourse is not about David's Kingdom.  

All of Jesus' teaching to the Jews apply to the CHURCH.

Shalom, Marcus.

Actually, it IS about David's Kingdom, not this weird thing that people call the "church" today:

Matthew 4:23-25
23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
25 And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.
KJV

Matthew 9:35
35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
KJV

Mark 1:14-15
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
KJV

Consider how early in Yeshua`s "ministry" this last passage occurred. What is this "gospel?" this "good news?" It is definitely NOT "the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ!" The answer is found in Isaiah:

Isaiah 52:7-10
7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation (Hebrew: y^eshuw`aah = "rescue"); that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!
8 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion.
9 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.
10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God (Hebrew: y<sup>e</sup>shuw`at Eloheeynuw = "our God's rescue").
KJV

And, it is THIS "gospel" that must be "preached" (heralded) in all the world before Yeshua` returns:

Matthew 24:11-14
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
KJV

[Marcus O'Reillius]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Actually, it IS about David's Kingdom, not this weird thing that people call the "church" today:

 

Actually it IS about the Church: the Elect, not some weird Preterist notion He is confirming the Davidic Covenant.

Once again, we are on opposite sides with no chance for reconciliation.  Good day.  This argument has become boringly repetitive.

[Retrobyter]

22 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

The Church as I use the term refers to all those who believe in Christ Jesus and are saved by faith.  They are the ELECT.  

Jesus' audience is the nexus of the Church and it applies to us as well.

Shalom, Marcus.

Excuse me, but the "elect" or the "chosen ones" (Greek: tous eklektous = "the-(ones) picked-out"), are the "chosen seed of Israel!"

NT:1588 eklektos (ek-lek-tos'); from NT:1586; select; by implication, favorite:
KJV - chosen, elect.

NT:1586 eklegomai (ek-leg'-om-ahee); middle voice from NT:1537 and NT:3004 (in its primary sense); to select:
KJV - make choice, choose (out), chosen.

NT:1537 ek (ek) or ex (ex); a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote):
KJV - after, among,  are, at, betwixt (-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+abundantly above), for (-th), from (among, forth, up),  grudgingly,  heartily,  heavenly,  hereby,  very highly, in, ...ly, (because, by reason) of, off (from), on, out among (from, of), over, since,  thenceforth, through,  unto,  vehemently, with (-out). Often used in composition, with the same general import; often of completion.

NT:3004 legoo (leg'-o); a primary verb; properly, to "lay" forth, i.e. (figuratively) relate (in words [usually of systematic or set discourse; whereas NT:2036 and NT:5346 generally refer to an individual expression or speech respectively; while NT:4483 is properly, to break silence merely, and NT:2980 means an extended or random harangue]); by implication, to mean:
KJV - ask, bid, boast, call, describe, give out, name, put forth, say (-ing, on), shew, speak, tell, utter.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Deuteronomy 7:1-8
1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
KJV

Deuteronomy 14:1-2
1 Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
2 for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
KJV

Isaiah 41:8-10
8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
9 Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.
10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.
KJV

Let's face the facts; most who call themselves "Christian" do NOT "believe in Christ Jesus," because they don't even know what a "Christ" is! They don't know what a "Messiah" is! They just think "Christ" is His last name (because they usually hear it as "Jesus Christ") or another word for "God" or something! If you do know what a "Christ" is, kudos to you! You're in the MINORITY!

[firestormx]

42 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

 

Actually it IS about the Church: the Elect, not some weird Preterist notion He is confirming the Davidic Covenant.

Once again, we are on opposite sides with no chance for reconciliation.  Good day.  This argument has become boringly repetitive.

While I don't agree with everything that is being said to you , I must agree with some of it. I think you are missing what they are saying. So let me try this another way. God made a covenant with Israel. It can be found in the Old Testament. This Covenant was still in effect when Jesus spoke on the MT. of Olives. God made a lot of Promises to Israel in the Old Testament that will still be fulfilled. Some of those promises are what is being discussed here in this thread. Now, these promises have nothing to do with us. We are under a different Covenant, that Israel has not yet accepted. They will accept it, but they haven't yet. All that I see is being stated is that when we read this part of scripture, we must not forget Israel and the promises made to Israel. I don't agree with the whole there is no church thing. Maybe I am misunderstanding that part. I hope so, because I would like to know who Jesus addressed in revelation if not 7 CHURCHES.   

[firestormx]

12 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marcus.

Excuse me, but the "elect" or the "chosen ones" (Greek: tous eklektous = "the-(ones) picked-out"), are the "chosen seed of Israel!"

 

What about the " pick-out ones " of the Gentiles? What are we? The ones that Believe in Jesus the Messiah, do we fit in this group as well?

Edited August 8, 2016 by firestormx

[Marcus O'Reillius]

17 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Excuse me, but the "elect" or the "chosen ones" (Greek: tous eklektous = "the-(ones) picked-out"), are the "chosen seed of Israel!"

Excuse me, but EVERYTIME eklektos is used for a people in the New Teatament, it refers to the Church!

[Retrobyter]

22 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

No he didn't.  That is your assumption that the abomination somehow refers to the First Jewish Revolt.

He didn't talk about the Temple being destroyed.

He talked about His Return.

Matthew 24:1-3
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
KJV

Mark 13:1-4
1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
KJV

Luke 21:5-7
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
KJV

Matthew 24:15-21
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV

Mark 13:14-19
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
KJV

Luke 21:20-24
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
KJV

You were saying?

[Marcus O'Reillius]

14 minutes ago, firestormx said:

God made a covenant with Israel. It can be found in the Old Testament. This Covenant was still in effect when Jesus spoke on the MT. of Olives. God made a lot of Promises to Israel in the Old Testament that will still be fulfilled.

Some of those promises are what is being discussed here in this thread.

Maybe I am misunderstanding that part. I hope so, because I would like to know who Jesus addressed in revelation if not 7 CHURCHES.   

1. God will fulfill those promises and that is what the Millennium is for: the Remnant.

2. Only if you accept Roy's premise, which I do not.

3. The "Church" is ONE body: the Great Multitude; the Bride of Christ.

[firestormx]

4 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

1. God will fulfill those promises and that is what the Millennium is for: the Remnant.

2. Only if you accept Roy's premise, which I do not.

3. The "Church" is ONE body: the Great Multitude; the Bride of Christ.

So, what about Israel? Does nothing apply to them in the New Testament? Jesus said he was sent first to Israel, Not us. Jesus was a Jew of Israel, the 12 were of Israel. Are you really saying nothing in this Mt. Olive speech by the Lord was to Israel? How is that not replacement theology?

 

ADDED DURING EDIT: Can you show number 1 in scripture for me please

Edited August 8, 2016 by firestormx

[Retrobyter]

10 minutes ago, firestormx said:

What about the " pick-out ones " of the Gentiles? What are we? The ones that Believe in Jesus the Messiah, do we fit in this group as well?

Shalom, firestormx.

YES! But, as grafted-in branches from an oleander tree! The ""church" is NOT the superset; the OLIVE TREE is the superset! And, obedient children of Israel and Gentiles are subsets of that tree!

Remember: Who is grafted into whom?

Romans 11:13-18
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
KJV