guestman Posted November 24, 2016 Group: Seeker Followers: 2 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 84 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 24, 2016 Retrobyter, When food is safe, we can enjoy eating it, but when it spoils, will we take the risk of consuming it ? No. A person can once be loyal to God, but they can also leave him, such as king Solomon (1 Kings 11:1-6) and king Asa.(2 Chron 16:12) Jesus established that only when a person maintains his righteous standing "to the end" will a person have the opportunity for life.(Matt 24:13) Throughout the Bible are examples of individuals who "left Jehovah" and saw his wrath, who are like ' smoke in his nostrils' (Isa 65:5, 11) and those who stayed loyal till death and whom "Jehovah will treat....in a special way".(Ps 4:3) The nation of Israel was given the privilege of becoming God's "special property", of becoming "a kingdom of priests and holy nation".(Ex 19:5, 6) But when Jesus inspected the nation during his ministry as "the messenger of the covenant" (Mal 3:1), what did he find ? Three days before his execution, he told the nation of Israel: "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her - how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings ! But you did not want it. Look ! Your house (the temple) is abandoned (or forsaken by God as his house of worship in Jerusalem) to you. For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say (wholeheartedly), ' Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah's name".(Matt 23:37-39) Luke's account reads: "And when he got nearby, he viewed the city (of Jerusalem) and wept over it, saying: "If you, even you, had discerned on this day the things having to do with peace (with Jehovah God) - but now they have been hidden from your eyes. Because days will come upon you when your enemies (the Roman army in 70 C.E.) will build a fortification of pointed stakes and will encircle you and besiege you from every side. They will dash you and your children within you to the ground, and they will not leave a stone upon a stone in you, because you did not discern the time of your being inspected".(Luke 19:41-44) The nation had turned apostate and now was in line for destruction, never to be God's people again, and in which Jesus told them that the temple ("your house") was abandoned to them. Thus, "the righteousness of the righteous man will not save him when he revolts.....nor will anyone righteous be able to keep living because of his righteousness in the day that he sins".(Eze 33:12) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 24, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 24, 2016 I see Revelation 3:1-6 as a stronger statement. “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, ‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’ I have always read His words about those who overcome ... "I will not blot his name from the Book of Life" ... with amazement. One must first be in the Book of Life to be blotted out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heb 13:8 Posted November 24, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,533 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/03/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, OneLight said: I see Revelation 3:1-6 as a stronger statement. “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, ‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’ I have always read His words about those who overcome ... "I will not blot his name from the Book of Life" ... with amazement. One must first be in the Book of Life to be blotted out of it. Underline: Indeed. and overcoming is based on belief in resurrection. We're already there... 1 John 5:4-5 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. - Heb Edited November 24, 2016 by Heb 13:8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 25, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Heb 13:8 said: Underline: Indeed. and overcoming is based on belief in resurrection. We're already there... 1 John 5:4-5 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. - Heb You need to take the whole passage in context. Ask yourself why would Jesus even say what He said if if were not possible to have a name blotted out. Remember, one needs to be in the Book of Life in order to be removed from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heb 13:8 Posted November 25, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,533 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/03/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 25, 2016 5 hours ago, OneLight said: You need to take the whole passage in context. Ask yourself why would Jesus even say what He said if if were not possible to have a name blotted out. Remember, one needs to be in the Book of Life in order to be removed from it. You will never be removed from it if you are born again. Justification by belief only comes once. Rom 10:10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 25, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 25, 2016 7 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said: You will never be removed from it if you are born again. Justification by belief only comes once. Rom 10:10. Then step me through your understanding of Revelation 3:1-5. I have broken it down for ease of replying to each point. I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heb 13:8 Posted November 25, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,533 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/03/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 25, 2016 4 hours ago, OneLight said: Then step me through your understanding of Revelation 3:1-5. I have broken it down for ease of replying to each point. I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Jesus already paid the sin debt. Rev 3:3 - Jesus said that day will not come as a thief to believers, only nonbelievers. 1 Thess 5:4. Rev 3:5 is figurative language, metaphorical, symbolic..http://biblehub.com/commentaries/revelation/3-5.htm Underline: Too many contradictions. We are victorious and we overcome because of the cross, not because of our works.. Psa 20:6-9 NIV Now this I know: The Lord gives victory to his anointed. He answers him from his heavenly sanctuary with the victorious power of his right hand. 7Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the Lord our God. 8They are brought to their knees and fall, but we rise up and stand firm. 9Lord, give victory to the king! Answer us when we call! Psalm 44:5-8 NIV Through you we push back our enemies; through your name we trample our foes. 6I put no trust in my bow, my sword does not bring me victory; 7but you give us victory over our enemies, you put our adversaries to shame. 8In God we make our boast all day long, and we will praise your name forever. John 16:33 NIV "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." Acts 20:28 NIV Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. Rom 8:35 NIV Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? Rom 8:37 NIV No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 1 Cor 15:54-57 NIV When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 55“Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” 56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 2:14 NIV But thanks be to God, who always leads us as captives in Christ's triumphal procession and uses us to spread the aroma of the knowledge of him everywhere. 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. 1 John 2:13-14 NIV I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. 14I write to you, dear children, because you know the Father. I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one. 1 John 4:4 NIV You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 1 John 5:4-5 NIV for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. Rev 12:11 NIV They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 25, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 25, 2016 2 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said: Rev 3:5 is figurative language, metaphorical, symbolic.. This is why you and I are not in agreement. You see, I believe we can so far off the mark that we have walked away from the truth, if we are not careful (work out your own salvation with fear and trembling). I see far too many passages that tell me to be careful, be wise, stay on path, etc. to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heb 13:8 Posted November 25, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,533 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/03/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 25, 2016 57 minutes ago, OneLight said: This is why you and I are not in agreement. You see, I believe we can so far off the mark that we have walked away from the truth, if we are not careful (work out your own salvation with fear and trembling). I see far too many passages that tell me to be careful, be wise, stay on path, etc. to ignore. Underline: Well see, that's the thing. Salvation isn't about walking on egg shells, it's rather about having relationship with Jesus. It's God's works and the finished work of the cross that keep us saved, not our works or relgion. Phil 2:12-13 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 25, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said: Underline: Well see, that's the thing. Salvation isn't about walking on egg shells, it's rather about having relationship with Jesus. It's God's works and the finished work of the cross that keep us saved, not our works or relgion. Phil 2:12-13 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. I am very well aware of salvation and how we walk in it. That is not the issue. What you are saying is that Jesus work is completed, and that is not even in question. We, however, are not completed until we are with him. Ignoring scripture only because it does not line up with what we think is very unwise. We are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, meaning with a solid heart, respect, and love. Being a Christian is not a cakewalk. We will be faced with strong temptations and unlikely dangers. If we do not remain in Him, we will become lost. Plain and Simple. Yes, we can never add onto salvation, but it is our choice to walk in His Grace or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts