Characteristics of the Little Horn Daniel 7

[brakelite]

Okay, here's my view of Revelation 13, that first composite beast.

Composites. We see them everywhere. They are all about us. They are called people. Every single person on the planet is a composite of his ancestors. DNA inherited from the sum total of all who have gone before make up what we are today. Although we are individuals, and unique, that uniqueness is bound up in our inherited genes.

With that in  mind I would like to discuss one of the most intriguing composites on the planet. Not an individual, but an institution. Described as a ‘beast’ in the book of Revelation in chapter 13, this beast has had many Biblical scholars both university educated and self taught, deeply embroiled in debate, argument, and discussion for nearly 2000 years. This beast has been the focus of attention with far more intensity in the past 150 years or so as the church recognises the signs of the second coming approaching, thus study with more interest those prophecies which reveal events, and characters which are pertinent to the  ‘last days’.

It is the nature of the composites, those things which form the beast, that I will focus on in this post. I have dealt extensively elsewhere with the prophecies of Daniel, linking the characteristics of the ‘little horn’ power of Daniel 7 with those of the papacy, and as we will see here, the beast of Revelation 13 likewise mirrors those characteristics.

 

Revelation 13:1 ¶ And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Revel. 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

We see here a kingdom rising up in a populous part of the earth, in this case the capital of the then superpower, Rome.

When compared with…

Revel.12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

…we see that whatever this beast is, it is a clone of Satan, the dragon, himself. This is his baby so to speak, his own creation, made after his own likeness.

Revel. 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

The Apostle John from his vantage point was looking backwards in time and seeing the same beasts of Daniel 7 only in reverse order. Daniel was looking forward, John back. Thus what John was seeing was a beast that had already begun to rise to power in his day. This gels with his comment in one of his letters that states that ” even now are there many antichrists”. The spirit that gave rise to the one Antichrist had begun to develop and was seen in several different forms in Johns lifetime. This beast is a composite of all that had gone before. Those characteristics which marked the uniqueness and nature of the previous powers were now resident in this one.

Like unto a leopard….
Nothing in nature, be they plants, animals, reptiles, birds, nor fish, can lie, not having the power of speech, but they can deceive. Deception is attained through appearance, or camouflage. And deception Jesus said, would be Satan’s principle weapon of choice in the last days. The leopard is a prime example of camouflage. The leopard, unlike the tiger or the lion, for the most part does not stalk its prey. It patiently lies in wait, in all appearance an innocent part of the foliage, until its prey come to him, then the leopard strikes. The papacy is of very similar character. An attractive and seemingly innocent part of the Christian landscape, but deceptively dangerous. Patience is the hallmark of the Catholic church. For 400 years she has waited for the counter reformation to bear fruit, and today we witness hundreds of priests and lay people from other faiths and denominations now returning to the ‘mother church’. Hundreds of years she has waited for her opportunity to rise again to her former glory. Her ambitions are now global, take note of the following from a very recent news report:
The Vatican called in 2011 for the establishment of a “global public authority” and a “central world bank” to rule over financial institutions that have become outdated and often ineffective in dealing fairly with crises…..A proposal by the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace calls for a new world economic order based on ethics and the “achievement of a universal common good.” It follows Pope Benedict XVI’s 2009 economic encyclical that denounced a profit-at-all-cost mentality as responsible for the global financial meltdown.

Read more: Vatican Calls For Global Authority On Economy | Fox Business

Isn’t this interesting? And they are not alone. Politicians the world over for several decades have been calling for a "new world order" and lately, this has become so commonplace that the news media isn't even bothering to report on it any more. Yet the prophetic implications are huge, as I am sure you are aware. Particularly when one considers the prophetic implications of an international authority with the power to enforce a religious mark using economic boycotts to encourage subservience. But since John Paul 11 there has been a marked increase in the Vatican's role in this endeavor to implement global governance, not just financially, but religiously. The current pope above all his predecessors has promoted himself as the only logical and viable candidate to be the head of this NWO. His recent visit to Congress, his video messages to Pentecostal pastors and the recent gathering at the Washington memorial, and next years meet with Lutheran leaders in Sweden to mark the 500th anniversary of the reformation are all designed to woo Protestantism back into the fold, and it will be they who promote the Pope to the future exalted position as civil AND religious ruler of the world. Thus the system of Antichrist will become global, and will have accomplished its goals.

Notice one more thing about leopards. Jesus Himself significantly remarked that a leopard cannot change her spots. It is worthwhile to note that many protestants today would claim that the papacy has changed. That she has mellowed from her former harsh judgemental attitudes which marked her history throughout the dark ages. But can a leopard change her character? No.
Jer. 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

The feet of a bear….

Death is, until the resurrection, like a deep dreamless sleep. In 1798 the papacy, as we saw previously, received its deadly head-wound (Verse 3) when the then pope was taken captive by the French, and the Catholic church ‘ceased to range over the country-side’ like a bear and went into hibernation until 1929 when Mussolini returned to the Vatican, and the pope, the civil power which had been taken from her. Once again she was a church/state power, the unique distinction which marks her pagan 'composite' beginnings.
The feet and claws of a bear are her most powerful weapons: one strike can rip open her prey, killing instantly. The injunction in Daniel 7:5 of the bear/Media-Persia to “devour much flesh” is very apt when applied to such a beast as a bear which has a ravenous appetite especially after hibernation. Whether in hibernation, or as a leopard or bear, whether in patient hiding or as a ravenous beast on the hunt, the Vatican will do whatever is necessary to achieve her goals…global dominion.
An interesting point regarding this particular bear. The Media/Persians, which nation was represented by the bear in Daniel, were renowned as lawmakers.

Daniel 6:8 Now, O king, establish the decree, and sign the writing, that it be not changed, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which altereth not.

“Why does the Catholic church not recant what was said by Trent…because it is Catholic teaching that a council teaches authoritatively, and the church is not authorised to repudiate retrospectively a conciliar decree”.
John Neuhaus.

Every principle of the papacy that existed in past ages exists today.The doctrines devised in the darkest ages are still held. The leopard has not, indeed cannot, change her spots. The laws, canons, and various decrees which vaunted the papal power’s presumed authority to torture, to wage war, and to destroy all who believe in their God given right to freedom of conscience, still exist today. Not one has been abrogated or altered. Their own dogma regarding infallibility forbids any change to that which has been officially legislated as articles of doctrine in the dogmas and canons of the Catholic Church. The inquisition, torture, and burning of heretics in past ages are still looked upon by the ruling councils of the Vatican as justifiable, lawful, and at times even necessary. And there is evidence that the inquisition has not finished, but continues in secret to this day.

mouth of a lion….

Ask a native of Africa what the most fearsome sound is in the African bush and all would agree that it is the roar of the lion. Various bulls and pronouncements from popes and his representatives have for centuries sent chills of fear and dread down the spines of kings and common man alike. There was a time, until the late 18th century, when a pronouncement of excommunication from the church could send an entire nation into a state of fear of eternal damnation in the fires of hell. Like the devil, “as a roaring lion walketh about seeking who he may devour” the papacy has no true authority in spiritual matters. It is the fear, rather than the popes words themselves, that has destroyed the faith of millions. “But we have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but rather the spirit of adoption” (Romans 8:15) “and of power, and of love, and a sound mind”. (2 Tim. 1:7) Notice the mouth “speaking great things and blasphemies” (Rev.13:15). Since its re-establishment in 1929, the Vatican has slowly but surely wooed herself into becoming once again a world power, and presidents and royalty alike present themselves to the pope bowing before him, kissing the ring upon his finger, and wait in awe and reverence to hear his words….”and all the world wonders after the beast”. (Revel. 13:5)

This composite beast, made up spiritually of all those pagan entities which have gone before, make up what we know is the final mystical revelation of the Antichrist, "Babylon the Great". Those previous entities all had one thin in common. They were unions of church and state. This is a pagan characteristic, and is a Satanic counterfeit to a theocracy. Revelation 13 makes it clear that the first beast , the composite, is a church/state union, and has inherited the pagan characteristics of her forbears. A little study into Catholicism will reveal this. Books have been written on the subject, one such being the classic "The Two Babylons" by Hislop. The second beast of Revelation 13 is no less interesting. It is said that this second beast cause or 'encourages' the people, (Revel:13:5 )(thus this is a democracy calling upon the people to do what it doesn't  have the power to do without their consent), deceiving the people into making an image of the first beast. Thus what the people do is through popular vote, create another union of church and state ...a mirror image to the papacy. This is the United States through Protestant ecumenism creating a church/stet union which will then through her legislative power enforce the doctrines and dogmas of Catholicism upon the world. Now you may not see this happening. You eyes are only focused on what you have been taught to see...a future individual in Israel persecuting the church. But do you not see how the Vatican is already standing in the temple of God, (the church) deceiving the people and is currently gaining huge strides in her ambitions to global governance? And how the whole world is even now "wondering after the beast"? This beast has already lived the first stage of her double life, the 1260 days/42 months/ times,time, and half a time. These being prophetic days (as Daniel's 70 weeks were prophetic days) the literal total is 1260 years, from 538 to 1798. Her head wound is now healed. The Leopard is back. The bear has woken up. And its hungry. Stop searching the horizon for a mythical figure to come charging in with his guns blazing and aimed at all things Christian. How ill anyone be deceived by such an act? No Sister, all roads lead to Rome.

Edited October 8, 2016 by brakelite

[douggg]

2 hours ago, brakelite said:

Okay, here's my view of Revelation 13, that first composite beast.

Composites. We see them everywhere. They are all about us. They are called people. Every single person on the planet is a composite of his ancestors. DNA inherited from the sum total of all who have gone before make up what we are today. Although we are individuals, and unique, that uniqueness is bound up in our inherited genes.

With that in  mind I would like to discuss one of the most intriguing composites on the planet. Not an individual, but an institution. Described as a ‘beast’ in the book of Revelation in chapter 13, this beast has had many Biblical scholars both university educated and self taught, deeply embroiled in debate, argument, and discussion for nearly 2000 years. This beast has been the focus of attention with far more intensity in the past 150 years or so as the church recognises the signs of the second coming approaching, thus study with more interest those prophecies which reveal events, and characters which are pertinent to the  ‘last days’.

...............................

The church was not in existence at the time of the bear, lion, leopard... to be a composite of those.     The first beast has nothing do with the RCC.    The first beast represents the beast and the kingdom of the beast when there are 42 months left in the 7 years.

The ten kings are leaders of the EU, forthcoming, which will be the kingdom of the beast.   With 42 months left in the 70th week, the EU will have gained control of the territories once held by the Greek, Medo-Persian, and Babylonian empires.   The reason for the composite appearance.

The beast the eighth king, is the 7th king who will be killed and brought back to life.      The 7th king is the forthcoming little horn of Daniel 7, who will emerge out of the EU (forthcoming when the ten leaders are in place - i.e. come to the full, in Daniel 8:23).

The little horn will be a Jew and will also descended from the Julio-Claudian family - the Caesars.    His predecessors are Julius Caesar, Augustus Caesar, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero (the last of the Julio-claudian dynasty).

None of the timeframes in Revelation have gone into effect yet.    The basic timeline construct is....

1260 days + 3 1/2 days + 42 months (containing the time, times, half times) = the 70th week.

The 42 months is a few days less than the 1260 days  (because of the 3 1/2 days) - the bible rounds off, using the 42 months designation.

The time, times, half times,  in turn,  is a little less than the 42 months (to take into account the amount of earth time that passes for the war in heaven in Revelation 12).   But is basically the same time period as the 42 months, the second half of the 70th week.

Not taking away, however, from the Vatican is the woman who will be destroyed when the beast rules that last 42 months.    Right now the EU politicians go along because they have been in bed with the Vatican so to speak.    But that will change when the beast is worshiped as god, and the Vatican will be seen as an impediment to that worship.    So it is going to be destroyed.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2016 by douggg

[douggg]

2 hours ago, brakelite said:

…we see that whatever this beast is, it is a clone of Satan, the dragon, himself. This is his baby so to speak, his own creation, made after his own likeness.

braklite, this may seem a little complicated to you, but....

The beast currently in the bottomless pit, was there even back in John's day.   The person ties back to the tower of babel, and at the root of all false religions in the world.    It appears as the beast is Nimrod.  

Now as to why Satan is pictured in Revelation 12 and 17.     It is because the beast is in the bottomless pit, and doesn't emerge until slightly before the last 42 months in Revelation 13.     So in Revelation 17 and 12, since the beast is still in the bottomless pit (unseeable); so instead, Satan is pictured in those chapters for John to see.

Revelation 17 - timestamped at the time of John 1st century, no crowns on the heads and horns.

Revelaiton 12 - timestamped with 7 years left, crowns on the heads, indicating the prophecy of the 7 kings fulfilled, the little horn has come to power.

Revelation 13 - timestamped with 42 months left, the beast has come out of the bottomless pit to possess the slain and come-back-to- life 7th king, the little horn person.     No crowns on the heads in Revelation 13 because the prophecy of the seven kings is over as king 7 with have been killed.

 

Edited October 8, 2016 by douggg

[brakelite]

Not complicated Douggg, for I have seen this type of teaching before, when I first became a Christian 40 years ago, when Hal Lindsay wrote his first book, The Late Great Planet Earth. Since then there have been numerous interpretations and versions of the futurist paradigm, and as each one came and went, my understanding actually became clearer, so clear that any confusion that remained, was completely obliterated when I rejected futurism altogether, and embraced historicism as the only logical consistent hermeneutic that explained prophecy with any semblance of reality and common sense. Not only so, but historicism refuses to lie down and surrender and hide when faced with historical reality, particularly that historical reality that is written in the blood of millions of martyrs at the hands of the Papacy over the past 1500 years. Futurism ignores that. Even deliberately hides it, and obscures the truth. It also tends to ignore the numerous doctrines, dogmas, and traditions of Rome that perfectly meet the conditions required of them to be labelled accurately as Antichrist (instead of, in place of, Christ). The truth that every reformer almost without exception, accused the papal system as THE Antichrist of scripture. They weren't wrong. I happen to agree with them...I see no logical sense nor see any Biblical reason for looking anywhere else, and certainly not into any distant or near future, for an entity to appear when one has already fulfilled all the criteria demanded of it as I am in the process of revealing.

[douggg]

4 hours ago, brakelite said:

Not complicated Douggg, for I have seen this type of teaching before, when I first became a Christian 40 years ago, when Hal Lindsay wrote his first book, The Late Great Planet Earth. Since then there have been numerous interpretations and versions of the futurist paradigm, and as each one came and went, my understanding actually became clearer, so clear that any confusion that remained, was completely obliterated when I rejected futurism altogether, and embraced historicism as the only logical consistent hermeneutic that explained prophecy with any semblance of reality and common sense. Not only so, but historicism refuses to lie down and surrender and hide when faced with historical reality, particularly that historical reality that is written in the blood of millions of martyrs at the hands of the Papacy over the past 1500 years. Futurism ignores that. Even deliberately hides it, and obscures the truth. It also tends to ignore the numerous doctrines, dogmas, and traditions of Rome that perfectly meet the conditions required of them to be labelled accurately as Antichrist (instead of, in place of, Christ). The truth that every reformer almost without exception, accused the papal system as THE Antichrist of scripture. They weren't wrong. I happen to agree with them...I see no logical sense nor see any Biblical reason for looking anywhere else, and certainly not into any distant or near future, for an entity to appear when one has already fulfilled all the criteria demanded of it as I am in the process of revealing.

"Antichrist (instead of, in place of, Christ)"

When the Pope qualifies to become the King of Israel, son of David, by being a Jew and his religion Judaism - to even be embraced by the Jews as such, then he can become the Anti- Christ.

Mark 15: 32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

 

Edited October 8, 2016 by douggg

[Sister]

13 hours ago, brakelite said:

Okay, here's my view of Revelation 13, that first composite beast.

Composites. We see them everywhere. They are all about us. They are called people. Every single person on the planet is a composite of his ancestors. DNA inherited from the sum total of all who have gone before make up what we are today. Although we are individuals, and unique, that uniqueness is bound up in our inherited genes.

With that in  mind I would like to discuss one of the most intriguing composites on the planet. Not an individual, but an institution. Described as a ‘beast’ in the book of Revelation in chapter 13, this beast has had many Biblical scholars both university educated and self taught, deeply embroiled in debate, argument, and discussion for nearly 2000 years. This beast has been the focus of attention with far more intensity in the past 150 years or so as the church recognises the signs of the second coming approaching, thus study with more interest those prophecies which reveal events, and characters which are pertinent to the  ‘last days’.

It is the nature of the composites, those things which form the beast, that I will focus on in this post. I have dealt extensively elsewhere with the prophecies of Daniel, linking the characteristics of the ‘little horn’ power of Daniel 7 with those of the papacy, and as we will see here, the beast of Revelation 13 likewise mirrors those characteristics.

 

Hi brakelite

Ok, stop right there for now......

What you should be doing is linking the little horn to other scriptures, ...not the papacy, for that is your own input, but showing how the OT confirms the NT, and the NT confirms the OT.  Speaking of the same thing....

 Daniel 7:8   I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Daniel 7:21   I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Daniel 7:22   Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Daniel 7:25   And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

 Daniel 8:9   And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

Daniel 8:23   And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

 

Daniel 11:36   And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

 Daniel 11:37   Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

  Daniel 11:38   But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

  Daniel 11:39   Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

 Daniel 11:45   And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

 

Nahum 1:11   There is one come out of thee, that imagineth evil against the LORD, a wicked counsellor.

 Ezekiel 21:25   And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,
 

What do we learn?  The characteristics of this little horn.  He comes out of the kingdom with 10 kings ruling.  He is another king, so he is singular. He has eyes like the eyes of man, meaning he is spiritual, and he has a big mouth speaking of things that gain the world's attention.  This same horn, made war with the saints, and prevailed over them until the "Ancient of days" came.  So he is there in the last days when the kingdom is given to the saints (resurrection), but before this the saints will be given into his hands for 3 1/2 years,...under his rule and authority, he will wear them out, why?....and he will change times and laws.  This little horn is a King, not kings plural, he will STAND UP when the TRANSGRESSORS COME TO THE FULL.  He will exalt himself and magnify himself above every God, and shall prosper until the indignation be accomplished.  He doesn't regard the God of his fathers, but worships the god of forces - material things.  He shall divide "the land" for gain (Jerusalem).  He will plant his palace between the two seas (Mediterranean and the Dead Sea)....Jerusalem.  He is a Jew.

now compare to the NT

2 Thessalonians 2:3   Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

  2 Thessalonians 2:4   Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 2 Thessalonians 2:8   And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

  2 Thessalonians 2:9   Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

  2 Thessalonians 2:10   And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

  2 Thessalonians 2:11   And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

  2 Thessalonians 2:12   That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

 Revelation 13:11   And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

  Revelation 13:12   And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

  Revelation 13:13   And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

  Revelation 13:14   And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

  Revelation 13:15   And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

  Revelation 13:16   And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

  Revelation 13:17   And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

  Revelation 13:18   Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 Revelation 13:7   And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

 Revelation 19:20   And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

This is the same man.  This little horn is the "son of perdition", he has two horns of a lamb (secular and spiritual), the falling away must come first, then he will be revealed (to the saints who know their scriptures).  This same horn.  He exalts himself over all that is called God, his miracles are "lying wonders" (technology), he is sent to those who love a lie and have no pleasure in unrighteousness to deceive them, he will be destroyed at the coming.  He is the same second beast in Rev which comes out of the earth. He is given only 3 1/2 years. He causes all to receive a mark IN their right hand or forehead.  Anyone that refuses he will kill.  No one can buy or sell without this mark,...cannot buy food.  He is also called the False Prophet.  He will be thrown into the lake of fire at the coming.  This man is that same KING spoken of in the OT, ...KING singular,....the kingdom he comes out of has kings (plural) ruling, ten of them.  He is a prophet....a false prophet....this man is a wicked counsellor, counselling the world to their destruction.

These are the characteristics of the little horn.  These are the things to watch out for and what we must be warning our brethren.  If one does not have time for God, one will not read the scriptures, therefore one will not be prepared, nor even know who this man is, and be led into receiving his mark causing damnation upon one's soul.

All these things have not happened.  If you think all the saints have already been persecuted, then you have not seen anything yet and are in for a big shock, ....all this time you have spent studying the papal system will be of no use, and will not save you.  The pope is there to distract of who the real beast is, ...to keep one blinded for the pope will encourage all his followers to take the mark of the beast, and support the system already set up, and will worship this man also.  If you lead others into a ditch, then their blood will be upon you.  I seriously ask you to start looking at scripture again with fresh eyes, so you can be blameless.

 

 

 

[douggg]

27 minutes ago, Sister said:

What you should be doing is linking the little horn to other scriptures, ...not the papacy, for that is your own input, but showing how the OT confirms the NT, and the NT confirms the OT.  Speaking of the same thing....

Actually, what he should be doing is linking "the person" to first becoming the little horn; then to becoming the prince who shall come; then to becoming the Antichrist; then to becoming the revealed man of sin; then to becoming the beast who will be worshiped.      The advancing of the person relavent to the 70th week timeline.   

 

The person is certainly not the Pope, nor the office of Pope.   The reformers were acting in accordance to the persecution by the Popes, and RCC hierarchy in their day....  in piecing together their view of him being the Antichrist.

Edited October 8, 2016 by douggg

[brakelite]

The way I see things is obviously somewhat different from you fellas. We look at the same characteristics, but whereas you apply them to a future individual, I apply them to a present system. Where you apply them to a future time period of 7 years, I apply them to a continuous time period from the time the prophecy was first given. Where you apply a literal interpretation to some aspects, I apply a spiritual application to them, the primary one being Israel. Where you see the nation of Israel as being the center and focus of prophecy, I see the church. Where you see the Antichrist as being an enemy to Israel and deceiving Israel into accepting a false Messiah, I see the church being deceived into accepting a false Christ. Where you see a literal individual entering a future literal temple and halting the sacrifice, I see the Antichrist already in the church temple displacing the real Lamb from His rightful ministry in heaven.

From my perspective, right or wrong, I believe where you guys depart from scripture is in placing a gap between the legs and the feet of the statue in Daniel 2. I see no reason to do this, unless you are already predisposed toward placing prophecy yet in the future. This predisposition comes from the teachings of Jesuits in the 16th century. Why do you place so much faith in them? It was they who took the 70th week of Daniel 9:24-27 and removed it from the 69 other weeks and made it yet future, giving them a space in time in which to insert their invented future Antichrist which hides the Papacy from being identified. Darby, then Schofield, ran with that idea and the rest of Protestantism took the bait. Daniel 9:24-27 is a Messianic prophecy. It is about Jesus Christ. All of it. Below is a graph showing the true timeline of the 70 weeks.

If however you view prophecy as a continuous timeline, as historicism does, then there is no reason for a gap, all of church history becomes relevant to prophecy, and it all makes sense. No gaps. And it makes the symbolism consistent. For example, in Daniel 7 the beasts are empires. Babylon, Media/Persia, Greece, Rome. This is in harmony with the statue. Same empires, same order. The iron and clay is still empirical, only in a different form. The iron of pagan Rome, the miry clay of a fallen church*. Each subsequent vision of Daniel is built upon the previous visions. They do not, cannot change that which has already been revealed. It merely fills in the gaps...adds more detail. Like the ten toes of the statue for example and the ten horns of the 4th beast. They cannot be the same ten entities. On the statue they come at the end, and are destroyed by Christ. All ten. However, the ten horns on the 4th beast are not destroyed at the second coming, the angel making it clear that 3 are destroyed by the 11th horn. Thus each set of ten must be different. Yet futurism attempts to make them the same by claiming there are yet 10 kings in the future which grow out of a revived Roman Empire. Why a revived empire, when the original  continued in the guise of apostate Christianity without pause until 1798, then resumed in 1929?

Sister, Dougg, I have seen over the years many versions of futurism with its literal hermeneutic. It has many variations, and for a long time I accepted them as the only way to interpret prophecy. But I was confused at to why God would allow something so vital to our salvation as to the identity of the Antichrist be so obvious when Jesus made it so clear that the most dangerous sign of the last days was deception? An Assyrian Jew ruling in Europe for 3 1/2 years then brokering a peace treaty with Israel and breaking that treaty, entering the temple, proclaiming himself to be God, ending the sacrifices, and the world is to be deceived by this??? Deceived by something the church has been talking about through every media channel for the past 5o years? Add to that a talking image????? Please, come on. Seriously? The issues of these last days revolve around worship, and deception is the one danger that leads the majority to worship according to the dictates of Babylon, the Mother. Remember, Satan already has the world in his hands. He already has Israel in his hands. Satan's focus is not on Israel It is the church that he hates the most, because it is the church that Christ loves the most. Armageddon isn't a literal battle between Israel and Russia. Armageddon is a spiritual war between spiritual Israel (the church) and the rest of the world. It is a battle over the mind. And right now, in the form of futurism, Satan has the church almost in his clutches. They fail to recognize Antichrist, and are now falling over one another to join with Antichrist and promote him to the head of Satan's new world order, the coming Luciferian global government with an apostate Christian face, enforcing Catholic doctrine which the majority of the world will gladly accept, which apostate Protestants in the US will accept repudiating constitution as they do so, in fact it will be they who will be the most instrumental in promoting the Antichrist to his final enthronement at the head of all world Christendom. And you fellas are in danger of going along with it because you cannot see the danger that is approaching because of the spiritual blindness that futurism has imposed on you. You are so focused on the future, you fail to see what is before your own eyes now.

*God spoke to Israel, His people, you are the clay, I am the potter. In the NT it is no different. So long as we are malleable in His hands, we are able to be sanctified and changed into the image of Christ. Miry clay however cannot be used by the potter. It is like salt that has lost its savor...good only for throwing out. Like the branches that bear no fruit...good only for burning. Such as an apostate system of Christianity when in an adulterous relationship with the kings of the earth. This is the principle character and nature of the Vatican...a church/state apostate church, that has inherited the nature and characteristics of those empires from which she grew. The history of the papacy throughout the dark ages of Europe bear testimony to the fact that the iron and clay "could not cleave one to another, though they mingled their seed with men." The royal families of Europe are all related, were all intimate in the relationship with the Popes, yet Rome failed in numerous and repeated attempts at a full union.

[douggg]

braklite,  "Where you see the nation of Israel as being the center and focus of prophecy, I see the church. "

braklite - who is the woman in Revelation 12, who gives birth to Jesus?    Isaiah 9:6 is unto Israel a child is born. 

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Revelation 12  reveals the 70th week relevant to Israel.    1260 days in 12:6 the first half.    The time, times, half times in 12:14 the second half.

Jesus rode into Jerusalem at the end of the 69th week.   4days later was crucified.    The 70th week still remains, gapped to the end times, just like Jesus's return is gapped to the end times to complete the 70 weeks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

Edited October 9, 2016 by douggg

[brakelite]

8 hours ago, douggg said:

braklite,  "Where you see the nation of Israel as being the center and focus of prophecy, I see the church. "

braklite - who is the woman in Revelation 12, who gives birth to Jesus?    Isaiah 9:6 is unto Israel a child is born. 

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Revelation 12  reveals the 70th week relevant to Israel.    1260 days in 12:6 the first half.    The time, times, half times in 12:14 the second half.

Jesus rode into Jerusalem at the end of the 69th week.   4days later was crucified.    The 70th week still remains, gapped to the end times, just like Jesus's return is gapped to the end times to complete the 70 weeks.

According too Paul true Israel are those of the same faith as Abraham...not the geneological children. Thus the woman who gave birth to Messiah represents God's people...faithful Israel in the OT, the true church in the NT. Who was it that stood before the woman to kill the child? The dragon right? The devil, Satan. But who was his agent in this? Was it not Herod, the Roman appointed so-called king of Judea? Thus it was pagan Rome (note the similarities between the description of the dragon and the 4th beast of Daniel 7.) Now  notice that the little horn which grew from pagan Rome would live initially (until his mortal head wound) times, time, and the dividing of time. (V25). Note also that the woman would flee into the wilderness for the same period...Revel 12:6...1260 days. Note that Biblical time was measured 30 days every month. You may be interested to learn that the Roman apostatsy had its genesis in the early centuries, but was not fully developed until the Roman bishops received official recognition as universal rulers of Christendom through the edict of Justinian in 533AD, and 5 years later put into effect when the last of the 3 horns, the Ostrogoths, were ousted from Rome in 538AD. Until then the Popes were elected only with the approval of the Ostrogoth king. In 538, the RCC had its autonomy. Now, exactly 1260 years later, in 1798, the French general Berthier, under orders of Napoleon, entered Rome, arrested the Pope, disbanded the college of cardinals, declared the papal states a republic, and the pope died in exile 2 years later. During that previous 1260 years, the true church, the pure woman,  had fled into the wilderness. She was mercilessly persecuted by this haughty 'little horn' which had grown into a beast in its own right, but 1798 saw its temporary demise. In fact at that time, political rulers throughout Europe thought the papacy was finished.

The 70th week was fulfilled by the Messiah. The whole 70 weeks was a Messianic prophecy. ^9 weeks unto Messiah the Prince started from 537BC, to the time of Jesus' baptism...His anointing as Messiah, in 27AD. He then confirmed the covenant with Israel, or made the covenant strong, in person for 3 and 1/2 years until in the midst of the week He in essence through His death caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease , but commanded His disciples to complete the 70 weeks by "going first to the lost sheep of the house of Israel", which they did until the stoning of Steven, who was the last prophet to Israel. The Sannhedrins condemnation and killing of Steven sealed heir fate. The gospel from that time forward went to the Gentiles, although individual Jews of course were still able to receive the gospel, and did. But the nations probationary period was finished in 34AD.

Though there is no specific evidence given in scripture for that 34 date, one can ascertain through Stevens final call to the rulers of the nation that their time was up. His speech was a very similar repeat of all the prophets calls to the nation throughout their history, with one major exception. Steven speech, though a judicial indictment on the nation as were the messages of the previous prophets, was missing one major aspect...there was no call to repentance. Israel's time was up. Their probation of 70 weeks over. Finished. Their next view of Christ would be in the clouds of heaven coming to judge. Jesus' prophecy before His crucifixion, that their house (not the Father's house or the Lord's house anymore) was left to them desolate, was coming to fruition. Prophecied by Jesus, sentenced by the prophet Steven, carried out by Titus.