Sister Posted September 22, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 22, 2016 (edited) 9 hours ago, Flsnookman said: A question if I may? Would creating something that has the capacity for evil be the same as creating evil? Yes, God brought everything into existence. God said himself he created evil.. Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. This doesn't mean that God is evil, but he lets evil exist, and he brought everything into existence including evil to separate the light from the darkness. John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. To give an example; Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. The waster = Satan the father of Evil. God created Satan for that very purpose. Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD? Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? Everything is made and created according to God's will. Without God nothing will exist, not even evil. Therefore God is responsible for his creation and everything contained within, ...and the evil which God created to exist, was carefully planned to be planted, so we could see the difference between good and evil, learn by it, and refuse it in order to appreciate a righteous God, and trust that everything he does is not in vain but for a purpose. Edited September 22, 2016 by Sister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted September 22, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Share Posted September 22, 2016 6 hours ago, Butero said: Thanks. I will take that into consideration as I proceed. God bless, and carry on. I have a question. As I read through the soapbox debate I started to wonder if both of you were using the same definition of sin? It seems at times like you 2 are using 2 different definitions . Maybe it is me and the way I read it, but thought I would ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 3 hours ago, Sister said: Yes, God brought everything into existence. God said himself he created evil.. Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. This doesn't mean that God is evil, but he lets evil exist, and he brought everything into existence including evil to separate the light from the darkness. Hi Sister, That verse is not talking about moral evil (sin). It is talking about calamity and judgment usually from what we call natural disasters. Sin was not created. It is not a thing to be created. It's no different than self-evident truth. Things like freedom, liberty, equality, etc. Those are not created things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 2 hours ago, firestormx said: I have a question. As I read through the soapbox debate I started to wonder if both of you were using the same definition of sin? It seems at times like you 2 are using 2 different definitions . Maybe it is me and the way I read it, but thought I would ask. We are not using different definitions of sin. He is quite clear in his view that God creates people to murder, rape, steal, etc. I have taken great pains early in the debate to make sure that I was understanding his premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted September 22, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,190 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 7 hours ago, Sister said: Yes, God brought everything into existence. God said himself he created evil.. Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. This doesn't mean that God is evil, but he lets evil exist, and he brought everything into existence including evil to separate the light from the darkness. John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. To give an example; Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. The waster = Satan the father of Evil. God created Satan for that very purpose. Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD? Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? Everything is made and created according to God's will. Without God nothing will exist, not even evil. Therefore God is responsible for his creation and everything contained within, ...and the evil which God created to exist, was carefully planned to be planted, so we could see the difference between good and evil, learn by it, and refuse it in order to appreciate a righteous God, and trust that everything he does is not in vain but for a purpose. There is an eternity of truth that stands against you ... the eternal past where there was no evil and the eternal future where there will be no evil... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted September 22, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 22, 2016 2 hours ago, enoob57 said: There is an eternity of truth that stands against you ... the eternal past where there was no evil and the eternal future where there will be no evil... And what about in between? Did you forget this? God knew the beginning in the end. He knew exactly what he was doing when he created Lucifer. He is all knowing. Yes God created Lucifer perfect, but created him perfect to "change" at a certain point in time, ...it didn't just happen, because God is in charge of his creation. He doesn't make mistakes, but everything is to go according to his plan from beginning to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teditis Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I don't think God created Lucifer intentionally to be "evil"... perhaps He knew that Lucifer would turn on Him but that's a separate issue. God didn't create evil, it's just that anything opposed to God is by definition evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted September 22, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 22, 2016 5 hours ago, shiloh357 said: Hi Sister, That verse is not talking about moral evil (sin). It is talking about calamity and judgment usually from what we call natural disasters. Sin was not created. It is not a thing to be created. It's no different than self-evident truth. Things like freedom, liberty, equality, etc. Those are not created things. Hi Shiloh357 Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that God has pleasure in evil, or that he has thought up all the evil horrible things that have been done, but I see that when he created Lucifer, the waster, he gave that job over to him to take pleasure in. Lucifer was first found with a little bit of evil in him. He was jealous and thought he could do a better job than God, he became vain because of all his wisdom and beauty. Well that little bit of evil in Lucifer grew like a cancer, and it has consumed him, ...one sin leads to another, and all these traits in Lucifer, we are learning from him and witnessing how he destroys everything that is good. In the end, Lucifer will lure the wicked to him, and God has used him as a tool to separate the wicked from the good. I have not read all of this thread, I am sorry if I am going off topic, I am not taking sides, but just jumped on to answer a simple question and give some scriptures to show what God says about it. My opinion means nothing and I thought those scriptures answered the question boldly. Evil is evil. It's based on thoughts, emotion and actions. It's the opposite to good. When God does evil on a city, or a person, it's for a punishment, a good reason to protect the good. When Satan does evil, he does it for enjoyment,...to destroy. There's a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 18 minutes ago, Sister said: Hi Shiloh357 Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that God has pleasure in evil, or that he has thought up all the evil horrible things that have been done, but I see that when he created Lucifer, the waster, he gave that job over to him to take pleasure in. Lucifer was first found with a little bit of evil in him. He was jealous and thought he could do a better job than God, he became vain because of all his wisdom and beauty. Well that little bit of evil in Lucifer grew like a cancer, and it has consumed him, ...one sin leads to another, and all these traits in Lucifer, we are learning from him and witnessing how he destroys everything that is good. In the end, Lucifer will lure the wicked to him, and God has used him as a tool to separate the wicked from the good. I have not read all of this thread, I am sorry if I am going off topic, I am not taking sides, but just jumped on to answer a simple question and give some scriptures to show what God says about it. My opinion means nothing and I thought those scriptures answered the question boldly. Evil is evil. It's based on thoughts, emotion and actions. It's the opposite to good. When God does evil on a city, or a person, it's for a punishment, a good reason to protect the good. When Satan does evil, he does it for enjoyment,...to destroy. There's a difference. Right, but you need to understand that I am debating in the soapbox about whether or not God created sin and causes people to sin and whether or not God creates people to destroy them. I am not debating the subject of whether or not God uses evil people. Evil, in the Bible refers to either moral evil (sin) or natural disasters/misfortune, depending on the context. You cannot treat ALL evil the same, as the Bible does not treat all evil the same. Some evil is moral and some is not. The Hebrew is far more nuanced than English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted September 22, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,190 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 6 hours ago, Sister said: And what about in between? Did you forget this? God knew the beginning in the end. He knew exactly what he was doing when he created Lucifer. He is all knowing. Yes God created Lucifer perfect, but created him perfect to "change" at a certain point in time, ...it didn't just happen, because God is in charge of his creation. He doesn't make mistakes, but everything is to go according to his plan from beginning to end. It is God's sovereignty that ordains the everlasting and it is the created thing where no ordination whatsoever may be found now or forever... ! You would do well to observe the Scripture which says: Ephesians 4:27 (KJV) [27] Neither give place to the devil. It is error to consider that which God is not keeping to that which He is... as light and darkness has no abode together nor fresh water with salt water from the same spring then also that which is of God to that which is not of God... it is absolutely ludicrous to give place to that which ends over that which shall never... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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